Blackmail / Dhamki

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kanak.

@kanak.

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Posted: 13 years ago

I am bit late on posting this one. I wanted to know what others think.

Anandi slapped Jagiya when he blackmailed his family to give him his share in property else he will not divorce Anandi. She was irate about that fact that he gave Dhamki to his family to get this job done on account of their divorce.

But recently was saw she herself gave Dhamki to her family that she will not divorce Jagiya if they don't give-up the idea of her second marriage. Agreed it was an emotional moment and what she did can't be completely equated to Jagiya's doing but she somewhere used the same trick.

Do you think it was right?

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AnjanaYYZ

@AnjanaYYZ

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+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

No its not the same. Jagya was attempting to sell Anandi's freedom to his family. Like it was some marketable commodity. Even if divorce was a commodity - in the given scenario, he didn't have the power to sell it from a legal or moral perspective. That power given Jogia's bigamy lay solely with Anandi. He has no choice, but to divorce. Well to be fair he can opt to go to jail for bigamy and lying to the court that he was single when "marrying" Gauri.

Anandi, on the other hand, was trying to prevent the family from infringing on her personal freedom. Again unlike Jogia, she has choice to "divorce" or not to "divorce". Also, to marry or not to marry after. And nobody has right (moral or legal) to compel her to do anything.

Edited by AnjanaYYZ - 13 years ago

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tinoo

@tinoo

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Posted: 13 years ago

Kanak, there is a difference between extortion and blackmail...

Extortion (a legal crime) is when you try to extract money or property from someone threatening them with revealing something about them or threatening them that you will not do something you want them to do. There is a malafide intention of creating gain for oneself while creating loss to the other.

Blackmail (particularly of the emotional variety) may be unethical but is not illegal where it is simply a 'quid pro quo' of witholding something from someone that belongs to you... The intention is to create gain for oneself without creating any loss to the other party.

Jagya's act was extortion (not blackmail) ... he was trying to squeeze money out of the singhs, and his actions would have led to gain for himself while creating loss to the singhs, consequently this is a jailable offence.

Anandi was not trying to squeeze money out of the singhs... so though it was blackmail, the intention was not to create gain for herself while creating loss the singhs ... it would have been gain for herself and no loss to the singhs... and she had full intention of signing the divorce papers till she realized that the singhs had reneged on the tacitly understood bilateral assumption that she did not want to get remarried ... so that is why she reneged on her commitment to sign the divorce papers ... otherwise she would have signed with no issue and no blackmail.

Jagya on the other hand had no reason to renege at the last minute ... if he had any issues whatsoever about property, he should have told that to bapusa and dadisa BEFORE he signed the divorce papers on the first day... his was a clear case of reneging on his commitment as an afterthought to extract money from the singhs.

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AnjanaYYZ

@AnjanaYYZ

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Posted: 13 years ago

Tinoo - India is not my jurisdiction and I haven't practiced criminal or family law in awhile, but am not sure I see your distinction btwn blackmail and extortion...to me they are synonyms even in the legal world.

The distinction may lie in the adjective "emotional" ... Jagya was engaging in extortion/blackmail... Anandi in emotional blackmail. The financial gain aspect making Jogia's act a legal crime. That said property division is generally part-n-parcel of divorce, but here Jogia wanted 3rd party property of his family not his or Anandi's. Even actual inheritance depending on jurisdiction is generally not part of marital property division.

Edited by AnjanaYYZ - 13 years ago

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tinoo

@tinoo

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Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: AnjanaYYZ
Tinoo - India is not my jurisdiction and I haven't practiced criminal or family law in awhile, but am not sure I see your distinction btwn blackmail and extortion...to me they are synonyms even in the legal world.

The distinction may lie in the adjective "emotional" ... Jagya was engaging in extortion/blackmail... Anandi in emotional blackmail. The financial gain aspect making Jogia's act a legal crime. That said property division is generally part-n-parcel of divorce, but here Jogia wanted 3rd party property of his family not his or Anandi's. Even actual inheritance depending on jurisdiction is generally not part of marital property division.

Anjana,

for the most part I enjoy your legal expertise on the forum. However, at some points, I feel you raise issues only for the sake of raising issues, and this is one of them.

Extortion and balckmail are not synonyms in the legal world ... there is a whole host of differences which lead to classifying the offence as extortion or blackmail and penalties for the two acts are different.

In addition, I dont understand why you are bringing the part in red into this discussion... because the discussion is about the specific actions of anandi and jagya ... not general issues of inheritance and marital property division. So why exactly are you correcting me about what happens in legal matters in general ? we are not talking about general here, we are talking about specific.

Yes, property division is generally a part and parcel of divorce ... but in this case... jagya and anandi did not have any jointly held property that required a division of assets ... and that is not what jagya was asking for ... he was asking for a share of dadisa's assets and that too by holding her hostage with his ransom demand... and that is what is the extortion part. Inheritance matters are not part of marital property disputes ... so he should not have mixed the two... especially considering that bhairon had relieved him off his obligations to pay any spousal support or alimony to anandi which she is legally entitled to...

And yes, even as far as the rightfulness of jagya's claim regarding his inheritance is concerned that too is bogus ... it is dadisa's earned property and she is still alive ... so he has no say in what is his share ... she is fully entitled to give 100% of it away to charity if she pleases and not leave jagya one naya paisa... the fact that she gave him a one-sixth share after being held hostage cannot be equated to Jagya getting his rightful share ... his rightful share would only have been if dadisa gave this to him willingly. If dadisa willfully chose to give him zero, then zero would be his rightful share. It is indeed extortion.

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tinoo

@tinoo

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Posted: 13 years ago

Originally posted by: AnjanaYYZ
Tinoo - India is not my jurisdiction and I haven't practiced criminal or family law in awhile, but am not sure I see your distinction btwn blackmail and extortion...to me they are synonyms even in the legal world.

And if we must throw around legal degrees -- then yes, I have an LLB acquired in India focusing on Indian family law ... i only did it for intellectual stimulation and to understand the legal scenario in India ... to inform other aspects of my career... I dont use the degree and am not a licensed legal practitioner ... but yes, I know my way around the legal system in India.

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AnjanaYYZ

@AnjanaYYZ

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+ 6

Posted: 13 years ago

Tinoo - I don't raise issues just to raise them. I am naturally passionate about law, character consistency, and politics. I also like discussion and debate. Seeing other perspectives enhances my own understanding even when the feedback is critical.

In my jurisdiction, we don't even have "blackmail" in our criminal code - I checked. We practically use extortion for blackmail cases and yes there are different forms of extortion with differing sentences. I don't know about India.

And the bit in red - was extra knowledge for the TM not you. And I agree with your point that its not an issue here, but Jug was raising it as thought it could legitimately be an issue. I further agree with you inheritance cannot even come into play till DS is dead.

P.S. my nitpickness is not personal to you. But, if you feel it is then let me know and I won't comment on your posts.

EDIT

If there is a legal distinction between blackmail and extortion in terms of definition in India then please share. Even from word stock perspective I would love to learn.

Edit - Edit

Ok - its 2am my time so my search term choices maybe deficient or my search engine choice... but, I can't find a specific section for "blackmail" under the IPC. Loads of "extortion" sections and definition under s.383 of the IPC ... The only "blackmail" I am getting in relation to IPC is Yahoo Answer is saying blackmail amounts to criminal intimidation but does not provide any specific definition of blackmail per se.

You have me very curious to know how the legal definitions vary in India if they do.

Edited by AnjanaYYZ - 13 years ago

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NoOne12

@NoOne12

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Posted: 13 years ago

Jagya tried to snatch something thatw as not his...Its not an ancestral property but DS, so he has no right over it 😆. And in doing so he also hurt his family.

Whereas Anandi didn't blackmail them for money but her own personal choice marriage 😊 and that dhamki would have hurt her more than the family