Anandi's boundaries as a sarpanch

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#71

Originally posted by: monamie111

i am really surprised that every time anandi does something good..u question her actions..😕 u did the same when she judged basant's case...there also basant and gahena was wrong and anandi was right!...and here also anandi is right! at that time also it was not a personal matter..and this time also it is not a personal matter at all..

Monamie,

I am amazed by your selective filters and your ability to drag something in from months ago into this particular conversation which has no relevance to this thread.

That being said, let me correct you on my stand on the basant - gehna- nandu and ramsharan panchayat issue.

I had no issue with anandi giving a decision against basant at all. Anandi was completely in the right, and Basant was in the wrong for denying that man his one month's salary. Her judgment was correct.

But after giving that judgement, Basant was unpleasant towards her and then eventually the unpleasantness led to his leaving badi haveli and going to his biological fathers home.

When this happened, anandi kept on crying buckets and buckets of tears for days together ... this crying, crying, crying was dragged on for days together.

At that point, I said that I wished anandi would get a spine ... and lf she made a decision to be right then she should celebrate her stand, AND NOT KEEP ON CRYING ABOUT THE RESULTS OF HER STAND.

So my point, to further clarify was this.

If anandi has a right to give decisions in the name of justice, Basant too has the right to have his own emotions and feelings and his decision to leave badi haveli. He is not bound to continue staying on at badi haveli just because anandi gave a decision that was justice. He was entitled to leave.

So my point was that anandi should have made a clear choice --

1. Either she was going to give justice, and deal with the consequences of basant's hurt feelings

2. She would recuse herself from the duty to maintain peace in the home, and not bother about her sarpanch duties.

Either one for me is okay -- but the way she did it was that she gave the decision and then for days together kept on crying about the fact that basant left home. why? does she not honour her own stand?

(and the decision too she gave in a half-hearted way ... she gave ramsharan a 'faisla' ... but presented basant with a 'nivedan' to give ram sharan his one month's salary... why not give basant a faisla too?)

If she gave the decision, she should have been bold enough to stand up for the consequences too.

Infact, when dadisa came back and yelled at anandi (though it was pretend yelling)... that the sabse choti beendhni of the house had put a rift in her own house, instead of defending her decision and explaining the rightness of her stand... she fell into dadisa's charan and kept saying "dadisa mujhse galti ho gayi... maaf kijiye"

why?

why ask mafi for something you feel is correct?

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#72

Originally posted by: AnjanaYYZ
So, the real solution is not stopping the marriage it is getting the parents to recognize that what they are doing is not just illegal, but is wrong for their child whom they do love. Anandi for that greater purpose should have moderated her language and tried to be more persuasive.

YES!! YES!! YES!!! Thanks Anjana for articulating what I could not convey. This is exactly what I mean.

I think the best way to explain something is how the particular punitive action is actually enhancing the person not taking something away from them.

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Payal

@payalibm

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

#73

Originally posted by: tinoo

YES!! YES!! YES!!! Thanks Anjana for articulating what I could not convey. This is exactly what I mean.

I think the best way to explain something is how the particular punitive action is actually enhancing the person not taking something away from them.

see guyss...this is what i meant...they talked and see tin-tin got her solutoin...if anjee too would ahve been harsh and all how she would so calmly make tin-tin understand...such a simple solution and so harsh wordss...lolzzz.so funnyy

i am happy@tin-tin ou get your quaries answered and i rellay appreciate you@anjee to be so good to know and understand and erply acording...love u both 😊 🤗

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#74

Originally posted by: apjk

Well I don't think the TM is trying to find faults in a gentle character.She is only wondering whether there is a better a way of doing the same thing.

Thanks apjk -- anandi's methods dont enthuse me too much ... its not her stand or her conviction that I have issues with, those are perfectly okay.

I'm not saying I have all the answers, but if placed in a similar situation in my life, I would hope to be armed with them by virtue of this discussion on this thread which is why I posted to seek alternative perspectives.

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tinoo

@tinoo

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#75

The root cause of most of the problems is that anandi markets this as her own personal agenda ... and projects her own problems (with jagya et. al) onto the lives of other girls.

The people whom she guides and leads dont really understand why they need to rewire their lives based on anandi's personal agenda and her bad experience with jagya which they see as unfortunate, but as a one-off case.

For each anandi, there is an equally healthy happy child marriage going strong right now -- such as bhairon-sumitra; or lal-singh and his wife koyel, or jyoti's parents themselves. They see it as perfectly okay.

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Picasso9

@Picasso9

Dazzler

Posted: 13 years ago

#76

Originally posted by: tinoo
Okay, so the issue of law vs. personal boundaries particularly when the law and law-upholders dont take responsibility for the fallout.

I believe that female foeticide is wrong -- for a variety of social issues.

I also believe that abortion of a child found to be mentally retarded or afflicted with down's syndrome in the womb (during the course of a sonogram) is also wrong -- because there are social and ethical issues at play.

The former is a big issue in India -- and the latter is a big issue in the U.S.

While it is illegal to engage in female foeticide in India -- in the U.S. there is no such law (YET) though there are several propositions/proposals on the table. So at this point, killing foetuses with disabilities is just unethical.

While pro-life activists condemn killing foetuses with disabilities ... I stand on the other side with the parents right to choose.

If the law stops a child with a disability from being aborted and that child is born, lawmakers and law-upholders will thump themselves on the back for having saved a life, dust their hands off and walk away congratulating themselves.

So, the child is born with severe disorders, and now the responsibility of this unwanted child is on the parents. The parents may or may not have the financial or the emotional werewithal to bring a child with a disability in this world, and then raise it for the next fifty years. I personally would not want to be tied down to a child with a disability (My choice -- others may have different choices).
It is very easy for someone to say "Tinoo should give birth to the child with down's syndrome because the child has a right to life"... when they will not be the ones shouldering the consequences.

The same with female foeticide -- I dont applaud it, but I really wonder about the activists who stop it, force the girl to be born and then walk away. The girl child is born into an environment where she is unwelcome. She will always be treated with resentment and second-rate treatment. It is not just that the lawmakers gave her a 'life'... my concern will be on the quality of life that this unwanted girl child will have.

I dont doubt the nobility of the first action... but when people who are not engaged with or interested in the consequences interfere and then dump the consequences back on the concerned parties, I really have issues.

I dont think that there are any clear cut solutions but it is certainly an interesting discussion on the law and its interference in personal matters.

Hi Tinoo,

It's been a while. You know how much I usually love your topics. And as much as I would like to hate this one, I can't. Ok, let's be honest, at first i did hate it. And vehemently disagreed with your points and actually Znursingh's response was the one that most appealed to me as I painstakingly read through all these pages.

However, your last post practically begged a response from me. Why?? Well you spoke at length about female foeticide and abortion and I must admit I have been devouring every episode of Satyamev Jayate and if I had to go by your theory that what's the point of saving someone if they are destined to a pitiful life anyway, then there would be no causes, no hope, no faith just no reason for striving to be a better human being.

You ask why save the female child if she is unwanted? I ask, how do we resolve the imbalance between males and females in the population? How do we stop bride sales? Human trafficking, etc etc etc. there is a myriad of crimes being committed or plotted because of this inbalance. Why can't education accompany the prevention of female foeticide. Why can't punishment, dire consequences act as a deterrent to any crime committed against a female CHILD. If we only think of 'WHAT'S THE POINT?'. No one would strive to be better, to change, to progress.

What would happen to us, the human race, who have been given the ability to differentiate between right and wrong? We would be worse than animals if we stopped 'giving a damn'. One example of even animals surpassing us is Elephants mourn the death of any in their herd.

About your point on Anandi's manner and choice of words for the parents: how does one speak to a villager entrenched in patriarchal customs. How does one reason with someone who would rather die that lose their respect in the samaj. What are the rules? Desperate times call for desperate measures. Looking at the little I saw on honor killings, villagers who practice that do not believe or respect the law of the land. Deducing from the atmosphere of gun toting revellers, and knowing the mentality of those that practice bal vivah, wouldn't it justify Anandi's choice of words? Some people need to be jolted to reality. IMO, Jyothi's parents earned that harsh treatment because they were not doing a 'punya ki kaam'. Jyothi's parents were not being the typical loving parents who were flawless. They were practically threatening and forcing their child to get married. If they were so upright as parents, why were they hiding the marriage? They deserved every choice word Anandi spoke to them.

About Anandi, having a plan for Jyothi after stopping the marriage? Why should we assume that her life is going to be difficult? She lives in a village that elected a female sarpanch, held the remarriage of a widow, etc etc, why can't these girls continue to go back to their homes in a highly visible manner, live with their heads held high (like gulli) and soon the more this occurred, it will no longer be a novelty but the norm, and wouldn't this help change mindsets? What about giving Jyothi's parents the opportunity to atone for the wrong they inflicted on her?

Someone has to start somewhere, someone has to set an example, change and progress should happen. Stagnant water stinks.

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Tuttifrutti

@Tuttifrutti

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#77

Sorry Tinoo..I have not gone through all the posts just picked the start ..Anandi is doing a great job as a human being and as a sarpanch..You have to convey a message and you need to be bold and use authoritative language..She knows that the people who were telling a lie ,..for a cause she is sacrificing her life and spreading the message of child marriage ..she is totaklly right..even when I have to get somethings done even after reminding the people of their responsibilities..if they do not listen ..I do not shy or afraid of to use language pinching others.

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Payal

@payalibm

Rocker

+ 3

Posted: 13 years ago

#78

Originally posted by: tinoo
The root cause of most of the problems is that anandi markets this as her own personal agenda ... and projects her own problems (with jagya et. al) onto the lives of other girls.

The people whom she guides and leads dont really understand why they need to rewire their lives based on anandi's personal agenda and her bad experience with jagya which they see as unfortunate, but as a one-off case.

For each anandi, there is an equally healthy happy child marriage going strong right now -- such as bhairon-sumitra; or lal-singh and his wife koyel, or jyoti's parents themselves. They see it as perfectly okay.

exctlyyy..but time s chngin and only education can make them undestand

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leo4ever

@leo4ever

Rocker

Posted: 13 years ago

#79

i wld just like to add one thing, yes anandi need to instill and inculcate the change slowly that it is wrong not simply coz of my exp but now even the law has it illegal. see before it was allowed by law( not prohibited) so ppl used to do it as it was thier tradition plus not anyones fault but nowit is a crime to do so, so whether she is stoppnig coz of her own exp or not it doesnt really make a big diff, fact remains that it is not allowed by the law anymore it is not recognised and is illegal and she as the sarpanch needs to stop it

however the change will come only if the mentaltiy changes and not reinforced by authority, people need to be made aware as to why it is harmaful, if they are afarid that folwlwing traditions will cut from thier sicuiety then that too is imp fact to consider. i feel when u want to change the tradtion or a custm u need to use both carrot n stick approach, not just reperimand but educate all to undersatnd the conswequnces. also maybe if they are forced to sell kids for poverty then maybe the govt can have an increased amount in the ration card? or maybe an allowance for those who get their girls eduicated till metric atleast? some initaitve?

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di_vya

@di_vya

Beginner

Posted: 13 years ago

#80

Originally posted by: tinoo

YES!! YES!! YES!!! Thanks Anjana for articulating what I could not convey. This is exactly what I mean.

I think the best way to explain something is how the particular punitive action is actually enhancing the person not taking something away from them.

I too agree. However tinoo, Anandi always keeps trying to do that. I think almost everyday she keeps reminding people of the ill-effects of child marriage. STill Jyoti's parents did not understand. And are trying to marry Jyoti secretly.

When someone has not understood in such a long time, how do we expect Anandi to be able to politely explain it to them in a few minutes when the marriage ceremony is about to begin?! Not a very practical approach at that time, I suppose. Even if you were the best orator in the world, you would not be able to make people see sense in a few minutes' time!

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