The intent of punishment -- and Jagya

tinoo thumbnail
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Posted: 14 years ago
#1
Yesterday, we learned of the difference between revenge and punishment.
Revenge is for you to take "badla" - so an individual tit-for-tat mechanism.
and
Punishment is for others(society/community) to see and take a lesson about what happens as a consequence of an action. The latin root of the word punishment is "pain"... so to see/feel the same pain that you inflicted on someone else.
While in ancient times, punishment too was tit-for-tat type of philosophy, in modern day times, the real intent of punishment in the criminal/legal system is not to feel the same pain that you inflicted on someone else, but rather rehabilitation -- to make the person so aware of their wrong doing that they change.
This is why in jails and prisons they dont just put people in cages, but have vocational training courses, yoga, spirituality curriculum etc - so that individuals have time to reflect on their own sense of morality and to do something productive to change.
I wonder if shifty-eyed Jagya stands the chance of being rehabilitated at all? So, perhaps there is no point in punishment.

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doyelpakhi thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#2
Tinoo - in J's case, punishment has already been done to him by his family.

He is already facing great difficulties and will eventually will face more in future for financial reason. Also, it's really not easy to forget your family altogether so emotionally also, J would be in turmoil.

Right now, dragging him to court will only ensure that he won't have a career at all which I feel would have been a kind of revenge.

Only if Singh family would have accepted everything, it would have been necessary and justified to drag J to court for the mental torture that he has done to A for 5-6 years.

The way Singh family treats their son can be an example before the other families and men of their village.



vsumeetha thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Explorer Thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#3
There are very few families that supports the daughter-in-law as against the son given this kind of situation. i personally do not know any family where this has happened.

Even the queen of England did not support her Diana when Charles was having a roaring affair with camilla.


tanvismile thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 14 years ago
#4
Dont know wether family abandoning is his punishment bcoz he left his family much before his family left him.
vasuja thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: tanvismile

Dont know wether family abandoning is his punishment bcoz he left his family much before his family left him.



I agree with Tanvi here...What is the point of abandoment when he is gonna get his and Gauri's education funded by singh family...he never wished to live in Jetar...All he is gonna miss is 10 days hoilday in Jetsar. I firmly believe that he should be sent to Jail and his crime need to be brought out in public... he is a person who believes in jhoota ahem...He will feel punished only when his jhoota ahem is broken in front of the society he so wants to fit into
642126 thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#6
Sorry, but I don't think Jagya has been punished. Rather I feel cheated as a viewer! They have not shown the family legally disowning Jagya. Jagya has faced bad consequences or punishment only for 2 months when his secret was out.

Otherwise, they have left all options open for J to come back!

Anandi is not filing a case against him. So? How does Jagya get punished?

In fact, when Anandi is finally able to move on, I think she will even convince Bhairon to bring back J and G to the house. She would give divorce to him and be all mahaan and say she's freed him from her side now! Since she's the beti of the house now, she would tie rakhi to Jagya and make Gauri her bhabhi sa? A new man in Anandi's life would be Jagya's Jijo sa?!!😡😲

This serial has once again treated the whole issue with kid gloves!

What is the use of laws if we are not to use them? Anandi's reasoning in yesterday's episode was flawed! If we go by what she said, then it means that even rape victim should not file a case against her rapist, because she can't get her izzat back, so she would concentrate on overcoming her own pain and educate other girls on how to protect themselves from rape and spread awareness among boys to respect women - BUT never take her rapist to court!🤢

If I discover someone in my family doing female foeticide, I should not report them or that doctor to police or go to court, because the aborted female foetus is not going to come back. Instead I should tell my family members not to do it again and go about the town educating others about harmful effects of female foeticide!

We should not even punish terrorists, because killed people are not going to come back and buildings will not rebuild by themselves. We should set them free. Start educating young boys not to join terrorist outfits, but never punish existing ones!!🤢

Jagyas of the world need to be dragged to court, so that the whole world comes to know what is wrong and what price the wrong-doer has to pay!

Taking someone to court or putting them in jail is not revenge!! Do you think when parents or teachers or judiciary punishes offenders, then they are taking revenge?!

Do you think when a teacher punishes a mischief making student, she's doing so because she wants to take revenge for that student disturbing her class?!

Punishment is necessary to make people realise that whatever they did was WRONG and that no one can get away by making a mockery of certain social conventions and laws!

The serial has made it all too simple. That child marriage or selling girls in childhood etc., doesn't make much difference. Pain is temporary. Everything gets alright, just educate the girl and let the men do their own thing! Voila!!

How is Anandi's letting Jagya go scott-free different from Gehna's decision to happily accept Basant and live with him despite her be-mel vivah and marital rape?!!

Ultimately it is the man who has the LAST LAUGH! If he wants to stay with the girl, the girl ultimately agrees and lives with him. If he wants to leave her, the girl sets him free and readily dissociates from him?!!

In the serial, Anandi-J-G and Singh family have come to know about the laws. But the village or community at large does not know about it! Anandi should have taken this step so that all girls like her know what happens.

It's not just about Jagya, it's also about women like Gauri who callously trample on other girl's lives, thinking that she could be thrown out coz she's just a child bride!

Plus they have made a mockery of the Hon'ble court of Law by lying about J's prior marital status and bribing them to get their work done soon!

If A had dragged him to court, then it would not have ruined his career. He's a doctor. His career would be ruined if he is dragged for an offense related to his profession or something like murder. Personal things like divorce etc., won't ruin his career!

When there is theft in our house, we not only secure our own house, not only inform neighbours and alert them, BUT the whole neighbourhood also joins hands against the thief and report about him to the police!!

In this whole thing, Jagya is free. His folly is not being addressed. No one is teaching a lesson to him, either gently or through punishment. Anandi will educate herself and other girls. But what about Jagya?! What price did he have to pay for his misdeeds and making a mockery of relationships and laws??!
vasuja thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: annika20


What is the use of laws if we are not to use them? Anandi's reasoning in yesterday's episode was flawed! If we go by what she said, then it means that even rape victim should not file a case against her rapist, because she can't get her izzat back, so she would concentrate on overcoming her own pain and educate other girls on how to protect themselves from rape and spread awareness among boys to respect women - BUT never take her rapist to court!🤢

If I discover someone in my family doing female foeticide, I should not report them or that doctor to police or go to court, because the aborted female foetus is not going to come back. Instead I should tell my family members not to do it again and go about the town educating others about harmful effects of female foeticide!

We should not even punish terrorists, because killed people are not going to come back and buildings will not rebuild by themselves. We should set them free. Start educating young boys not to join terrorist outfits, but never punish existing ones!!🤢



Bang on Annika...what you have mentioned is the reason i want jagya to be punished too...
KyunkiImafan thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 14 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: annika20

Sorry, but I don't think Jagya has been punished. Rather I feel cheated as a viewer! They have not shown the family legally disowning Jagya. Jagya has faced bad consequences or punishment only for 2 months when his secret was out.


Otherwise, they have left all options open for J to come back!

Anandi is not filing a case against him. So? How does Jagya get punished?

In fact, when Anandi is finally able to move on, I think she will even convince Bhairon to bring back J and G to the house. She would give divorce to him and be all mahaan and say she's freed him from her side now! Since she's the beti of the house now, she would tie rakhi to Jagya and make Gauri her bhabhi sa? A new man in Anandi's life would be Jagya's Jijo sa?!!😡😲

This serial has once again treated the whole issue with kid gloves!

What is the use of laws if we are not to use them? Anandi's reasoning in yesterday's episode was flawed! If we go by what she said, then it means that even rape victim should not file a case against her rapist, because she can't get her izzat back, so she would concentrate on overcoming her own pain and educate other girls on how to protect themselves from rape and spread awareness among boys to respect women - BUT never take her rapist to court!🤢

If I discover someone in my family doing female foeticide, I should not report them or that doctor to police or go to court, because the aborted female foetus is not going to come back. Instead I should tell my family members not to do it again and go about the town educating others about harmful effects of female foeticide!

We should not even punish terrorists, because killed people are not going to come back and buildings will not rebuild by themselves. We should set them free. Start educating young boys not to join terrorist outfits, but never punish existing ones!!🤢

Jagyas of the world need to be dragged to court, so that the whole world comes to know what is wrong and what price the wrong-doer has to pay!

Taking someone to court or putting them in jail is not revenge!! Do you think when parents or teachers or judiciary punishes offenders, then they are taking revenge?!

Do you think when a teacher punishes a mischief making student, she's doing so because she wants to take revenge for that student disturbing her class?!

Punishment is necessary to make people realise that whatever they did was WRONG and that no one can get away by making a mockery of certain social conventions and laws!

The serial has made it all too simple. That child marriage or selling girls in childhood etc., doesn't make much difference. Pain is temporary. Everything gets alright, just educate the girl and let the men do their own thing! Voila!!

How is Anandi's letting Jagya go scott-free different from Gehna's decision to happily accept Basant and live with him despite her be-mel vivah and marital rape?!!

Ultimately it is the man who has the LAST LAUGH! If he wants to stay with the girl, the girl ultimately agrees and lives with him. If he wants to leave her, the girl sets him free and readily dissociates from him?!!

In the serial, Anandi-J-G and Singh family have come to know about the laws. But the village or community at large does not know about it! Anandi should have taken this step so that all girls like her know what happens.

It's not just about Jagya, it's also about women like Gauri who callously trample on other girl's lives, thinking that she could be thrown out coz she's just a child bride!

Plus they have made a mockery of the Hon'ble court of Law by lying about J's prior marital status and bribing them to get their work done soon!

If A had dragged him to court, then it would not have ruined his career. He's a doctor. His career would be ruined if he is dragged for an offense related to his profession or something like murder. Personal things like divorce etc., won't ruin his career!

When there is theft in our house, we not only secure our own house, not only inform neighbours and alert them, BUT the whole neighbourhood also joins hands against the thief and report about him to the police!!

In this whole thing, Jagya is free. His folly is not being addressed. No one is teaching a lesson to him, either gently or through punishment. Anandi will educate herself and other girls. But what about Jagya?! What price did he have to pay for his misdeeds and making a mockery of relationships and laws??!



Annika...very well written...exactly my thoughts. 👏 I agree Anandi took the practical path of focusing on herself. But I absolutely feel that if the victims dont stand up and punish the wrong-doers then who will? Its an mere excuse when Anandi says how will I focus on my life if I focus on fighting for my rights in Court against J. Well its not about you only, when she understands that this has been happening from centuries and that her own teacherji has been trying to bring change from past 16-18 years doesn't she understand the need to stand up? Waise to sabke liye ladti hai! ITs not about revenge, its about punishing and making one realize their mistake and forcing people to think correctly. Her reasoning is fine but a man who is so selfish how does she think he can be a good human or a good doctor. How does she have the right to let him go and not punish him and let him do wrong to even more people? If all the victims in the world thought this way, then why were laws made? why were judiciary system made? If everyone only needs to focus on their own growth then how does a society, city, country as whole grow and become stronger? If Gandhiji didn't think of India as whole and only thought about bringing change in his own life we wouldn't be celebrating 64 yrs of Independence this coming Monday! The show is about educating people, spreading correct information to rural India then how can they show that people like Jagya should be set free and the girl has to bring about all the change in her life and herself to move ahead! Thats exactly how it happens anyways, then how are they showing something new, something that makes them think! I have always tried to do little little things that make difference around me so no I am not being a hypocrite and saying Anandi should think of people around her. She's seen all her life, how child brides are suffering and yet she thinks that theres no benefit in punishing Jagya! 😡
sreevask thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#9
👏👏

Originally posted by: annika20

Sorry, but I don't think Jagya has been punished. Rather I feel cheated as a viewer! They have not shown the family legally disowning Jagya. Jagya has faced bad consequences or punishment only for 2 months when his secret was out.


Otherwise, they have left all options open for J to come back!

Anandi is not filing a case against him. So? How does Jagya get punished?

In fact, when Anandi is finally able to move on, I think she will even convince Bhairon to bring back J and G to the house. She would give divorce to him and be all mahaan and say she's freed him from her side now! Since she's the beti of the house now, she would tie rakhi to Jagya and make Gauri her bhabhi sa? A new man in Anandi's life would be Jagya's Jijo sa?!!😡😲

This serial has once again treated the whole issue with kid gloves!

What is the use of laws if we are not to use them? Anandi's reasoning in yesterday's episode was flawed! If we go by what she said, then it means that even rape victim should not file a case against her rapist, because she can't get her izzat back, so she would concentrate on overcoming her own pain and educate other girls on how to protect themselves from rape and spread awareness among boys to respect women - BUT never take her rapist to court!🤢

If I discover someone in my family doing female foeticide, I should not report them or that doctor to police or go to court, because the aborted female foetus is not going to come back. Instead I should tell my family members not to do it again and go about the town educating others about harmful effects of female foeticide!

We should not even punish terrorists, because killed people are not going to come back and buildings will not rebuild by themselves. We should set them free. Start educating young boys not to join terrorist outfits, but never punish existing ones!!🤢

Jagyas of the world need to be dragged to court, so that the whole world comes to know what is wrong and what price the wrong-doer has to pay!

Taking someone to court or putting them in jail is not revenge!! Do you think when parents or teachers or judiciary punishes offenders, then they are taking revenge?!

Do you think when a teacher punishes a mischief making student, she's doing so because she wants to take revenge for that student disturbing her class?!

Punishment is necessary to make people realise that whatever they did was WRONG and that no one can get away by making a mockery of certain social conventions and laws!

The serial has made it all too simple. That child marriage or selling girls in childhood etc., doesn't make much difference. Pain is temporary. Everything gets alright, just educate the girl and let the men do their own thing! Voila!!

How is Anandi's letting Jagya go scott-free different from Gehna's decision to happily accept Basant and live with him despite her be-mel vivah and marital rape?!!

Ultimately it is the man who has the LAST LAUGH! If he wants to stay with the girl, the girl ultimately agrees and lives with him. If he wants to leave her, the girl sets him free and readily dissociates from him?!!

In the serial, Anandi-J-G and Singh family have come to know about the laws. But the village or community at large does not know about it! Anandi should have taken this step so that all girls like her know what happens.

It's not just about Jagya, it's also about women like Gauri who callously trample on other girl's lives, thinking that she could be thrown out coz she's just a child bride!

Plus they have made a mockery of the Hon'ble court of Law by lying about J's prior marital status and bribing them to get their work done soon!

If A had dragged him to court, then it would not have ruined his career. He's a doctor. His career would be ruined if he is dragged for an offense related to his profession or something like murder. Personal things like divorce etc., won't ruin his career!

When there is theft in our house, we not only secure our own house, not only inform neighbours and alert them, BUT the whole neighbourhood also joins hands against the thief and report about him to the police!!

In this whole thing, Jagya is free. His folly is not being addressed. No one is teaching a lesson to him, either gently or through punishment. Anandi will educate herself and other girls. But what about Jagya?! What price did he have to pay for his misdeeds and making a mockery of relationships and laws??!



👏 EXCELLENT POST !👏

Anandi's social work has 3 facets :

  1. PREVENTION OF CHILD MARRIAGES :Anandi can do this by citing her plight as an example!
  2. PROTECTING THE RIGHTS OF ALREADY MARRIED BV s:Anandi can do this ONLY when she could protect her rights as a BALIKA VADHU!
  3. COORDINATING & LIAISONING WITH GOVT AGENCIES,REHABILITATION CENTERS TO MEET THIS END AS WELL AS CREATING AWARENESS AMONG THE SOCIETY OF THIS EVIL PRACTICE!: Once Anandi establishes herself as a brand of success ,it would be easier to preach and take the movement ahead!
WHEN A CULPRIT LIKE JAGYA IS PUNISHED THEN IT WOULD BE A MESSAGE & A COURAGE BOOSTER TO SEVERAL SUCH BVs.

Anandi should show the world what balika vadhus can do when they are left by husbands like Jagya!

So, dear Anandi Madam!,

"F I R S T P R A C T I C E , A N D T H E N O N L Y P R E A C H !"



Edited by sreevask - 14 years ago
doyelpakhi thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 14 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: annika20

Sorry, but I don't think Jagya has been punished. Rather I feel cheated as a viewer! They have not shown the family legally disowning Jagya. Jagya has faced bad consequences or punishment only for 2 months when his secret was out.


Otherwise, they have left all options open for J to come back!

Anandi is not filing a case against him. So? How does Jagya get punished?

In fact, when Anandi is finally able to move on, I think she will even convince Bhairon to bring back J and G to the house. She would give divorce to him and be all mahaan and say she's freed him from her side now! Since she's the beti of the house now, she would tie rakhi to Jagya and make Gauri her bhabhi sa? A new man in Anandi's life would be Jagya's Jijo sa?!!😡😲

This serial has once again treated the whole issue with kid gloves!

What is the use of laws if we are not to use them? Anandi's reasoning in yesterday's episode was flawed! If we go by what she said, then it means that even rape victim should not file a case against her rapist, because she can't get her izzat back, so she would concentrate on overcoming her own pain and educate other girls on how to protect themselves from rape and spread awareness among boys to respect women - BUT never take her rapist to court!🤢

If I discover someone in my family doing female foeticide, I should not report them or that doctor to police or go to court, because the aborted female foetus is not going to come back. Instead I should tell my family members not to do it again and go about the town educating others about harmful effects of female foeticide!

We should not even punish terrorists, because killed people are not going to come back and buildings will not rebuild by themselves. We should set them free. Start educating young boys not to join terrorist outfits, but never punish existing ones!!🤢

Jagyas of the world need to be dragged to court, so that the whole world comes to know what is wrong and what price the wrong-doer has to pay!

Taking someone to court or putting them in jail is not revenge!! Do you think when parents or teachers or judiciary punishes offenders, then they are taking revenge?!

Do you think when a teacher punishes a mischief making student, she's doing so because she wants to take revenge for that student disturbing her class?!

Punishment is necessary to make people realise that whatever they did was WRONG and that no one can get away by making a mockery of certain social conventions and laws!

The serial has made it all too simple. That child marriage or selling girls in childhood etc., doesn't make much difference. Pain is temporary. Everything gets alright, just educate the girl and let the men do their own thing! Voila!!

How is Anandi's letting Jagya go scott-free different from Gehna's decision to happily accept Basant and live with him despite her be-mel vivah and marital rape?!!

Ultimately it is the man who has the LAST LAUGH! If he wants to stay with the girl, the girl ultimately agrees and lives with him. If he wants to leave her, the girl sets him free and readily dissociates from him?!!

In the serial, Anandi-J-G and Singh family have come to know about the laws. But the village or community at large does not know about it! Anandi should have taken this step so that all girls like her know what happens.

It's not just about Jagya, it's also about women like Gauri who callously trample on other girl's lives, thinking that she could be thrown out coz she's just a child bride!

Plus they have made a mockery of the Hon'ble court of Law by lying about J's prior marital status and bribing them to get their work done soon!

If A had dragged him to court, then it would not have ruined his career. He's a doctor. His career would be ruined if he is dragged for an offense related to his profession or something like murder. Personal things like divorce etc., won't ruin his career!

When there is theft in our house, we not only secure our own house, not only inform neighbours and alert them, BUT the whole neighbourhood also joins hands against the thief and report about him to the police!!

In this whole thing, Jagya is free. His folly is not being addressed. No one is teaching a lesson to him, either gently or through punishment. Anandi will educate herself and other girls. But what about Jagya?! What price did he have to pay for his misdeeds and making a mockery of relationships and laws??!






The Price Jagya is paying - he is humiliated before the villagers; he is abandoned by his family and it is NOT temporary - if Singh family has not disowned him legally it does NOT mean he can return any time he wishes. It will be TOTALLY upon Anandi's prerogative when J will return to his own blood relations. The Singh family will not forgive their son with time.

As far as getting share of property is concerned, nothing needs to be done right now legally as long as DS is there. When necessary, I am sure Singh family will take necessary steps to keep J out of everything.

Right now, he has to beg before Anandi, the woman whom he left , to get some financial help and bowing down before a person whom you once disregarded, is as much painful as being in jail.

Also, relationship problems cannot be compared with terrorist activities or female foeticide or even domestic violence.

In relationships, people do fall out of love and there is no point for a woman to be in a relationship where the man is staying just out of "pity" or for "fear of being in prison." It's more demeaning for a woman if her husband is pitying her or is carrying on the relationship out of obligation.

However, the way J broke off his marriage is not at all correct. J should have told A about his affair in the very beginning and should have treated the woman with respect who had given him a new life. The way he treated A. for 5 years need punishment and Singh family has done it.

A thinks that dragging J to court will be a revenge because she will be doing it after being rejected by J. Before sending out any message to society, she thinks that her action will tell Jagya - "okay dude, you rejected me and I won't let you live peacefully!" Basically it would emphasize that A. is so shattered that she can't tolerate J's rejection and wants to take revenge.

Some one like Anandi who has so much self respect ( by self-respect I do not mean ego) would never do anything to prove low self-esteem.

Had A's in-laws not supported her, I would have preferred A to file divorce case, get hefty alimony from the Singhs for her years of service and move on with her life. Let J do whatever he likes. He does not deserve any attention or care from A's side.

Of course, domestic violence and torturing physically is a different ball game. In those cases, whether there is any scene of "other woman/man "or not, the culprit need to toil in jail for physical abuses he/she has hurled.


As far as BAsant -Gehna case is concerned, Gehna did protest in her own limited way against Basant's behavior and Basant did realize his mistake.

Gehna did not start loving Basant overnight or because he was her husband; she softened only after he started taking care of her happiness and her wishes. Basant did not do it just to win Gehna back but he was genuinely concerned for Gehna as it was evident when he arranged marriage of Gehna with teacher Niranjan because Basant thought that they are compatible with each other and the teacher can take care of Gehna. Genha melt because of Basant's genuine affection and care. Somehow, the CVs redeemed Basant's character and hence B-G are staying happily now.
Edited by doyelpakhi - 14 years ago

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