Obligations in marriage - Page 2

Originally posted by: hima_123

Heyy Sonali...thankizz hai..!!
yeah Jags-Gauri is a completely dumb, unrealistic case...where no one seems to have common sense or basic general knowledge.!!...
But yeah, the scenario does... strike the question in my mind...if one person in marriage, wants to move on--while his wife is completely innocent from a rural bckgrd, and there is no fault of hers, and given her social situation she might not even be able to re-marry...what are the options for the guy??...

Should he continue his marriage for the sake of "pity" becoz if he doesn't his wife's life might be spoilt...but at the same time he can never love her.

Or maybe he should go against the social norms...and try to uplift his wife financially/educationally, so that at least, after being separated-- she too could be stronger socially.. But I doubt if a guy from this selfish world, would do so much for just an ex wife, or a wife he'd want to leave.....

anyways...aapkaa second option lock kar diyaa jaata hai...and SAHI JAWAAB ...you win a crore~~😳😆

Very nice topic Hima and i like your argument. However, things are not always this simple. While the first part of the scenario is quite common---a guy might fall for someone else and not like his wife anymore----very very few guys would take the pains of bothering about the wife he doesn't love.
Let me first talk about the situation you have suggested. If the issue is that of a backward wife and a modern husband, then the marriage shouldn't take place in the first place. In yester years, only the elders fixed the match and the groom and the bride would see each other only on the day of the wedding. But now, times have changed. Even in arranged marriages the potential groom and bride are asked whether they like the match. If they take a conscious decision of marrying each other, they are responsible for the relationship and the marriage. In cases where the groom or bride are forced to get married against their choices, the question of love doesn't arise in the first place and I would call that marriage an unsuccessful marriage from day 1.

My point is, "falling out of love" is a very ambiguous term. The term essentially includes the condition that the partners were once in love before falling out of love. The question is then why did the husband fall out of love? One possibility may be that both the partners changed and they were not the same persons any more that they had respectively fallen in love. That happens and it is acceptable. Another possibility might be the husband discovered some unacceptable flaw about the wife that he was not aware of before marriage and hence fell out of love with that version of the wife. This too is acceptable. But if the husband falls out of love only because he finds a better version of a woman compared to his wife, then maybe he needs to control his selfish urges.

Maybe it's practical to move on with a divorce, but such instances can only set examples that men can upgrade their life partners whenever they can, without controlling their selfish urges or taking any responsibility to save the marriage. Men are by nature polygamous and 80% of men would prefer to change life partners if it comes without any liability, social stigma or guilt. 😛

My response to your question is thus not one option over another. I think choosing option 1 asserts self-control, responsibility and an understanding that we can't change everything according to our wishes and we should try to be happy with whatever we have.
Choosing option 2 asserts a will to pursue one's own happiness, being ambitious to change the given things in life and focusing on one's own self.

These are two different life philosophies and different people follow different paths. I don't think any one of them is right and the other is wrong. People will choose the options according to the values and temperament one follows for the rest of the things in life.

As for my own philosophy. I have married someone who i love and it was my conscious decision. I will not fall in love with someone in the first place just because he is smarter, more attractive, more handsome, and richer than my husband. And if I am indeed attracted to the other guy then something is already wrong with my marriage or I am someone who's never satisfied with anything at hand. 😃. Personally speaking, I really dnt know why people fall out of love, but i have just expressed my views based on those that I have seen going through a divorce or an unhappy marriage or falling out of love.

Originally posted by: woman11

Very nice topic Hima and i like your argument. However, things are not always this simple. While the first part of the scenario is quite common---a guy might fall for someone else and not like his wife anymore----very very few guys would take the pains of bothering about the wife he doesn't love.
Let me first talk about the situation you have suggested. If the issue is that of a backward wife and a modern husband, then the marriage shouldn't take place in the first place. In yester years, only the elders fixed the match and the groom and the bride would see each other only on the day of the wedding. But now, times have changed. Even in arranged marriages the potential groom and bride are asked whether they like the match. If they take a conscious decision of marrying each other, they are responsible for the relationship and the marriage. In cases where the groom or bride are forced to get married against their choices, the question of love doesn't arise in the first place and I would call that marriage an unsuccessful marriage from day 1.

My point is, "falling out of love" is a very ambiguous term. The term essentially includes the condition that the partners were once in love before falling out of love. The question is then why did the husband fall out of love? One possibility may be that both the partners changed and they were not the same persons any more that they had respectively fallen in love. That happens and it is acceptable. Another possibility might be the husband discovered some unacceptable flaw about the wife that he was not aware of before marriage and hence fell out of love with that version of the wife. This too is acceptable. But if the husband falls out of love only because he finds a better version of a woman compared to his wife, then maybe he needs to control his selfish urges.

Maybe it's practical to move on with a divorce, but such instances can only set examples that men can upgrade their life partners whenever they can, without controlling their selfish urges or taking any responsibility to save the marriage. Men are by nature polygamous and 80% of men would prefer to change life partners if it comes without any liability, social stigma or guilt. 😛

My response to your question is thus not one option over another. I think choosing option 1 asserts self-control, responsibility and an understanding that we can't change everything according to our wishes and we should try to be happy with whatever we have.
Choosing option 2 asserts a will to pursue one's own happiness, being ambitious to change the given things in life and focusing on one's own self.

These are two different life philosophies and different people follow different paths. I don't think any one of them is right and the other is wrong. People will choose the options according to the values and temperament one follows for the rest of the things in life.

As for my own philosophy. I have married someone who i love and it was my conscious decision. I will not fall in love with someone in the first place just because he is smarter, more attractive, more handsome, and richer than my husband. And if I am indeed attracted to the other guy then something is already wrong with my marriage or I am someone who's never satisfied with anything at hand. 😃. Personally speaking, I really dnt know why people fall out of love, but i have just expressed my views based on those that I have seen going through a divorce or an unhappy marriage or falling out of love.

Originally posted by: woman11

Very nice topic Hima and i like your argument. However, things are not always this simple. While the first part of the scenario is quite common---a guy might fall for someone else and not like his wife anymore----very very few guys would take the pains of bothering about the wife he doesn't love.
Let me first talk about the situation you have suggested. If the issue is that of a backward wife and a modern husband, then the marriage shouldn't take place in the first place. In yester years, only the elders fixed the match and the groom and the bride would see each other only on the day of the wedding. But now, times have changed. Even in arranged marriages the potential groom and bride are asked whether they like the match. If they take a conscious decision of marrying each other, they are responsible for the relationship and the marriage. In cases where the groom or bride are forced to get married against their choices, the question of love doesn't arise in the first place and I would call that marriage an unsuccessful marriage from day 1.

My point is, "falling out of love" is a very ambiguous term. The term essentially precludes the condition that the partners were once in love before falling out of love. The question is then why did the husband fall out of love? One possibility may be that both the partners changed and they were not the same persons any more that they had respectively fallen in love. That happens and it is acceptable. Another possibility might be the husband discovered some unacceptable flaw about the wife that he was not aware of before marriage and hence fell out of love with that version of the wife. This too is acceptable. But if the husband falls out of love only because he finds a better version of a woman compared to his wife, then maybe he needs to control his selfish urges.

Maybe it's practical to move on with a divorce, but such instances can only set examples that men can upgrade their life partners whenever they can, without controlling their selfish urges or taking any responsibility to save the marriage. Men are by nature polygamous and 80% of men would prefer to change life partners if it comes without any liability, social stigma or guilt. 😛

My response to your question is thus not one option over another. I think choosing option 1 asserts self-control, responsibility and an understanding that we can't change everything according to our wishes and we should try to be happy with whatever we have.
Choosing option 2 asserts a will to pursue one's own happiness, being ambitious to change the given things in life and focusing on one's own self.

These are two different life philosophies and different people follow different paths. I don't think any one of them is right and the other is wrong. People will choose the options according to the values and temperament one follows for the rest of the things in life.

As for my own philosophy. I have married someone who i love and it was my conscious decision. I will not fall in love with someone in the first place just because he is smarter, more attractive, more handsome, and richer than my husband. And if I am indeed attracted to the other guy then something is already wrong with my marriage or I am someone who's never satisfied with anything at hand. 😃. Personally speaking, I really dnt know why people fall out of love, but i have just expressed my views based on those that I have seen going through a divorce or an unhappy marriage or falling out of love.

First I want to really really appreciate the depth of your thoughts, and the ability to think so objectively and put forward things so rationally.👏

Now going forward with the discussion...as you said option one would assert self control and responsibility...though I guess it is when the guy chooses this option on his own, and is not imposed on him socially. My question is this even acceptable to women?...Will a woman ever want to live with a guy who is living with her not for love, but out of obligations?...

As a woman, if I have expectations from a guy in a relationship-say a relation like marriage...honesty and trust would be more important than making the guy live with me forever.
Why would a woman herself want to live with a guy who wants to "upgrade" her. I mean, we can enforce it socially that a guy who wants to upgrade his wife, has to forcibly still live with her. But as women, do we even want that society?...Do we even want such marriages?

Though I know women may differ in opinion. Because I know many women want their husbands who have emotionally moved on to come back and resume their responsibilities in marriage.
(I am not talking about cheating or straying here...I guess they are men who cheat, yet want their wives back-if husband /wife are ok with accepting each other after one has strayed, its their call...)...but I am talking about a case, where the guy has emotionally completely left his wife, and doesn't even want her back, still why would the wife want the guy to come back to her...whats the need of setting such examples..??

Is it not a better society where people are free to exercise their choices?...where women also have financial freedom and emotional independence.?...where women are not dependent on men? Where a man doesn't have to stay with a woman even if he doesn't love her, but only out of social obligations?? Whats the point of continuing marriages...if your heart doesn't lie in them??...If 80% men are prone to leaving their wives...whats the point of continuing marriage with them forever??..those men who are polygamous...why are we forcing them to live with us...in the name of marriage, unless they themselves want to live with us forever...by their own choice??

Originally posted by: woman11

Very nice topic Hima and i like your argument. However, things are not always this simple. While the first part of the scenario is quite common---a guy might fall for someone else and not like his wife anymore----very very few guys would take the pains of bothering about the wife he doesn't love.
Let me first talk about the situation you have suggested. If the issue is that of a backward wife and a modern husband, then the marriage shouldn't take place in the first place. In yester years, only the elders fixed the match and the groom and the bride would see each other only on the day of the wedding. But now, times have changed. Even in arranged marriages the potential groom and bride are asked whether they like the match. If they take a conscious decision of marrying each other, they are responsible for the relationship and the marriage. In cases where the groom or bride are forced to get married against their choices, the question of love doesn't arise in the first place and I would call that marriage an unsuccessful marriage from day 1.

My point is, "falling out of love" is a very ambiguous term. The term essentially includes the condition that the partners were once in love before falling out of love. The question is then why did the husband fall out of love? One possibility may be that both the partners changed and they were not the same persons any more that they had respectively fallen in love. That happens and it is acceptable. Another possibility might be the husband discovered some unacceptable flaw about the wife that he was not aware of before marriage and hence fell out of love with that version of the wife. This too is acceptable. But if the husband falls out of love only because he finds a better version of a woman compared to his wife, then maybe he needs to control his selfish urges.

Maybe it's practical to move on with a divorce, but such instances can only set examples that men can upgrade their life partners whenever they can, without controlling their selfish urges or taking any responsibility to save the marriage. Men are by nature polygamous and 80% of men would prefer to change life partners if it comes without any liability, social stigma or guilt. 😛

My response to your question is thus not one option over another. I think choosing option 1 asserts self-control, responsibility and an understanding that we can't change everything according to our wishes and we should try to be happy with whatever we have.
Choosing option 2 asserts a will to pursue one's own happiness, being ambitious to change the given things in life and focusing on one's own self.

These are two different life philosophies and different people follow different paths. I don't think any one of them is right and the other is wrong. People will choose the options according to the values and temperament one follows for the rest of the things in life.

As for my own philosophy. I have married someone who i love and it was my conscious decision. I will not fall in love with someone in the first place just because he is smarter, more attractive, more handsome, and richer than my husband. And if I am indeed attracted to the other guy then something is already wrong with my marriage or I am someone who's never satisfied with anything at hand. 😃. Personally speaking, I really dnt know why people fall out of love, but i have just expressed my views based on those that I have seen going through a divorce or an unhappy marriage or falling out of love.

@hima;

Now we are going on a different topic. Talking about the wife is a completely different issue, the initial topic was just focused on a husband who has apparently fallen out of love😃

Now talking about the wife, I agree with all that you say and most probably any normal, educated girl with some progressive thinking will refuse to stay with a husband who has abandoned her. Nor should society force her to stay with a man who doesn't love her. An independent, self-confident woman is the ideal case.

Having said that, I also understand that many women are socially conditioned to conform to patriarchal norms and though their thoughts do not match mine, I completely understand why they do the things that they do. I have talked about this in other posts several times. The point is, I dont hate the version of a woman who is absolutely not my type and is submissive, conformist, and besotted by her husband. I see many posts pouring out hatred against Anandi. I too feel frustrated by women like Anandi and wish things could change. But to blame Anandi for the characteristics she portrays and to ignore the actual social and gender conditioning that goes behind it is actually fallacious.

Maybe society will change someday, maybe we should do something about it. 😃

Originally posted by: woman11

@hima;

Now we are going on a different topic. Talking about the wife is a completely different issue, the initial topic was just focused on a husband who has apparently fallen out of love😃

Now talking about the wife, I agree with all that you say and most probably any normal, educated girl with some progressive thinking will refuse to stay with a husband who has abandoned her. Nor should society force her to stay with a man who doesn't love her. An independent, self-confident woman is the ideal case.

Having said that, I also understand that many women are socially conditioned to conform to patriarchal norms and though their thoughts do not match mine, I completely understand why they do the things that they do. I have talked about this in other posts several times. The point is, I dont hate the version of a woman who is absolutely not my type and is submissive, conformist, and besotted by her husband. I see many posts pouring out hatred against Anandi. I too feel frustrated by women like Anandi and wish things could change. But to blame Anandi for the characteristics she portrays and to ignore the actual social and gender conditioning that goes behind it is actually fallacious.

Maybe society will change someday, maybe we should do something about it. 😃

Yeah...sorry I was deviating😊..I am trying to analyze the situation from the perspective of a man and woman and society. Like a man who doesn't love his wife anymore be allowed to move on...from the perspective of society and women.

I mean--yeah we can't blame the women who are suffering...or maybe the men too. Probably people are struggling to find a balance between what they want to do...and what the society expects them to do.

Well thhinking of only the obligations of husband and wife isn't being faithful important!!!!

hey coo, post. I havent yet read all the other posts so I dont know what everyone else is saying but Id just like to say that I dont think Jagya and Gauri love eachother as I have pointed out in my post, "Kya Gauri galath hai?" earlier. Gauri loves Dr. Jagat, she cant handle Jagya and Jagya loves Gauri's education and how she was in the city. Even if they did love each other then the point comes back to why did Jagya treat Anandi so badly then. In the 5 years, Jagya just left Anandi thinking, pinning mouling over events trying and fighting to find out why and what she did wrong that her husband was treating her like a doormat. I mean she serves his family and he comes back with a wife without telling anyone. An Indian. in my opinion should know that our norms tell us to seek elder's advice before taking drastic and important decisions. Him falling in love is not the problem.. in fact love is beautiful and should be followed through. His ways are wrong. He should have consulted his family, told Gauri, spoken to Anandi personally not over the phone and then taken decisions. Thats what I think would have been the right way to do it.. Now back to your discussion question. I dont completely agree with both options.. Ok let me explain..

@hima lovely post
in case of jagya
i agree J shud go for optn 2 bt in real life ppl dont go 4 optn 2 sp giving alimony, settlement ,apology etc
man usually thik wat ever they are doing is absolutely right😳. they are self centered & might think y thr "HARD EARN MONEY"😵 shud be spent on wifey 1as she cud not keep him happy...we see so many cases whr women fight for thr child support n alimony...😒

Originally posted by: sreeda18

Well thhinking of only the obligations of husband and wife isn't being faithful important!!!!

We are supposed to love our wife or husband through thick and thin and ot be fair weather partner i.e. love your wife unless someone better or as you put it someone whom i truly love comes and then what do i do how can i suprees my feelings etc!!!

Will people accept if a wife does that she coms home one day says I konw i am bliged to you but see i met this xyz in iffice and i truly love him so what should she do supress her feeling for her xyz and live with husband or leave him...again i am not talking about legalties/parents approval not even feminism but more about the obligations or the promises we make to each other during marriage!!!!

If both guy or girl need not have obligations and should follow their heart and live with other person whom they "fall in love" after marriage why have this istitution called marriage at all...

and yes marrige is also about compromises to love your wife/husband with all their plus and minus and being with them till the very end else i think there willl more divorces thatn marriages and one more thing

Love esp what we feel for opposite sex is just a part of life, not the whole life in itself that we fall in love with somebaody we have to live with them no matter how many other hearts are borken that is not fair even to your own love!!!!

Who knows this true love will happen even after that and then!!!! there will be no stopping as human mind sometimes works that way when we have something we need something else and when we get that we tend to lose inetrest in it and need something else!!!!

So we need to control our emotions rather than thinking that loving another woman/man and living with life partner is diffcult or not possible etc.

Yes...thats exactly my point ! Being faithful is important in marriage...so if someone's spouse is committing adultery (here I am considering emotional adultery as being a form adultery),and cant do anything abt it ...is it worth keeping such a marriage...for the man/woman...or is it healthy for society to ignore the instances of emotional distances and emphasize on keeping such marriages?

ok...as per my understanding of your post...if one wants, he cannot fall in love with anybody but his life partner, and that loving someone is completely a conscious decision decided by logical brain, and no part of it is governed by sub-conscious mind or feelings. ...so even if you get a feeling that you can't love your spouse ...by giving your brain the logic that you're supposed to be in "love" with her or him because he is your wife/husband, a person will start loving him/her...

maybe...loving/not loving someone might be nothing apart from a logical choice a person makes for himself...sounds like a practical thing...i don't know, but appreciate the input...