Things which made you uncomfortable in Mahabharata - Page 8

^^^ Both statements say that Arjun was protecting Shikhandi, not using him as human shield

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

It seems both Arjun and Shikhandi were shooting arrows on Bheeshm and no one were sure on whose arrow did strike Shikhandi

Originally posted by: Wistfulness

Shikhandi was targeted by the Kuru warriors who were protecting Bhishma.

But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been shooting the arrows himself too

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Here it is (I edited the other post after you responded):

"Vasudeva said, 'The feats were highly wonderful that were achieved by those high-souled Kshatriyas. In consequence of their large number, they are incapable of being enumerated in even hundreds of years. I shall however, mention only the foremost of them. Do thou listen, therefore, to me as I mention in brief those feats achieved by the kings of Earth. O thou of godlike splendour. Bhishma of Kuru's race became the generalissimo, having eleven divisions of the Kaurava princes under his command, like Vasava of the celestial forces. 1 Sikhandin of great intelligence, protected by the blessed Arjuna, became the leader of the seven divisions of the sons of Pandu. The battle between the Kurus and the Pandavas (under these leaders) raged for ten days. It was so fierce as to make one's hair stand on its end. Then Sikhandin, in great battle, aided by the wielder of Gandiva, slew, with innumerable arrows, the son of Ganga fighting bravely. Lying on a bed of arrows, Bhishma waited like an ascetic till the sun leaving his southward path entered on his northerly course when that hero gave up his life-breaths.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m14/m14060.htm

I think Krishna was pacifying Ganga by the prior statement. It must have been embarrassing to be beaten by someone society considered an outcast. Arjuna plainly didn't want to kill his family. The only ones he seemed to have no qualms eliminating were Jayadrath and Karna.

I find Arjuna's pacifism quite great actually. A man who can kill, who knows who can kill, but would prefer peace... what's not to like? Of course it can get problematic if overdone.

However, I've numerous doubts regarding the authenticity of this claim. I'll go by the other statements and the descriptions.

@Bold - Definitely. Even celebrated virtues become vices when overdone.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Thou hast charged Partha, that bull among men, with the slaughter of Bhishma. The latter, however, viz., that illustrious personage, himself accomplished his own death. Truly speaking, the uterine brother, (viz., Sikhandin), that foremost of all sinners, was the cause of Bhishma's death. There is none in the world that is more sinful than the sons of the Panchala king. Thy father had created Sikhandin for the destruction of Bhishma. As regards Arjuna, he had only, protected Sikhandin while Sikhandin became the cause of the illustrious Bhishma's death

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m07/m07195.htm

"Vasudeva said, 'The feats were highly wonderful that were achieved by those high-souled Kshatriyas. In consequence of their large number, they are incapable of being enumerated in even hundreds of years. I shall however, mention only the foremost of them. Do thou listen, therefore, to me as I mention in brief those feats achieved by the kings of Earth. O thou of godlike splendour. Bhishma of Kuru's race became the generalissimo, having eleven divisions of the Kaurava princes under his command, like Vasava of the celestial forces. 1 Sikhandin of great intelligence, protected by the blessed Arjuna, became the leader of the seven divisions of the sons of Pandu. The battle between the Kurus and the Pandavas (under these leaders) raged for ten days. It was so fierce as to make one's hair stand on its end. Then Sikhandin, in great battle, aided by the wielder of Gandiva, slew, with innumerable arrows, the son of Ganga fighting bravely. Lying on a bed of arrows, Bhishma waited like an ascetic till the sun leaving his southward path entered on his northerly course when that hero gave up his life-breaths.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m14/m14060.htm

P.S. If I theorize without background, I try to remember and specify it is conjecture.

Shikhandi was the cause of Bhishma's death seems to me exactly what Amba wanted - to be the reason behind his death. That doesn't mean he killed Bhishma. As you said, it's a Kavya. Simply a symbolic statement IMO.

Also, nobody killed Bhishma ,but defeated him isn't it??. He was on a bed of arrows and he died after the Kurukshetra AFAIK.

Also, Krishna's statements seem contradictory and the description of the battle is by Sanjaya. Its unlikely that Bhishma bribed everyone from Sanjaya, Krishna, Arjun etc. Especially Sanjaya, why will he lie 😔

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Here it is (I edited the other post after you responded):

"Vasudeva said, 'The feats were highly wonderful that were achieved by those high-souled Kshatriyas. In consequence of their large number, they are incapable of being enumerated in even hundreds of years. I shall however, mention only the foremost of them. Do thou listen, therefore, to me as I mention in brief those feats achieved by the kings of Earth. O thou of godlike splendour. Bhishma of Kuru's race became the generalissimo, having eleven divisions of the Kaurava princes under his command, like Vasava of the celestial forces. 1 Sikhandin of great intelligence, protected by the blessed Arjuna, became the leader of the seven divisions of the sons of Pandu. The battle between the Kurus and the Pandavas (under these leaders) raged for ten days. It was so fierce as to make one's hair stand on its end. Then Sikhandin, in great battle, aided by the wielder of Gandiva, slew, with innumerable arrows, the son of Ganga fighting bravely. Lying on a bed of arrows, Bhishma waited like an ascetic till the sun leaving his southward path entered on his northerly course when that hero gave up his life-breaths.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m14/m14060.htm

I think Krishna was pacifying Ganga by the prior statement. It must have been embarrassing to be beaten by someone society considered an outcast. Arjuna plainly didn't want to kill his family. The only ones he seemed to have no qualms eliminating were Jayadrath and Karna.

I find Arjuna's pacifism quite great actually. A man who can kill, who knows who can kill, but would prefer peace... what's not to like? Of course it can get problematic if overdone.

@bold - that's one of his most remarkable qualities. I still think he didn't want war, despite the whole geeta gyan.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Shikhandi was the cause of Bhishma's death seems to me exactly what Amba wanted - to be the reason behind his death. That doesn't mean he killed Bhishma. As you said, it's a Kavya. Simply a symbolic statement IMO.

Also, nobody killed Bhishma ,but defeated him isn't it??. He was on a bed of arrows and he died after the Kurukshetra AFAIK.

Also, Krishna's statements seem contradictory and the description of the battle is by Sanjaya. Its unlikely that Bhishma bribed everyone from Sanjaya, Krishna, Arjun etc. Especially Sanjaya, why will he lie 😔

Arjuna doesn't say it. Krishna says contradictory things. Sanjaya merely describes the battle I think... or does he state outright Arjuna killed Bheeshma?

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Arjuna doesn't say it. Krishna says contradictory things. Sanjaya merely describes the battle I think... or does he state outright Arjuna killed Bheeshma?

"When Santanu's son Bhishma of mighty energy, who was (regarded as) unslayable, was slain, all of us thought that the destruction of the Kuru king was at hand. 1 Vanquished by Savyasachin, with our foremost heroes slain, and ourselves mangled with sharp arrows, we knew not what to do.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Shikhandi was the cause of Bhishma's death seems to me exactly what Amba wanted - to be the reason behind his death. That doesn't mean he killed Bhishma. As you said, it's a Kavya. Simply a symbolic statement IMO.

Also, nobody killed Bhishma ,but defeated him isn't it??. He was on a bed of arrows and he died after the Kurukshetra AFAIK.

Also, Krishna's statements seem contradictory and the description of the battle is by Sanjaya. Its unlikely that Bhishma bribed everyone from Sanjaya, Krishna, Arjun etc. Especially Sanjaya, why will he lie 😔

Nobody killed him. He died on his will.

Next chapter - Dhruti says

Alas, he that was not slain by Jamadagni's son himself in days of old by means of even his celestial weapons, alas, he hath now been slain by Drupada's son Sikhandin, the prince of Panchala!--

🤣

Bheeshma ko kisne mara?