The Print Article - Indians ignore what was done to Subhadra - Page 6

^^ that's the whole point if Arjun entered when Yudhishtir was there having his private time then he must have been stopped by some servants, still he entered probably not being interested to wait that's exactly what constituted the reason for punishment

As I said in another thread Polyandry has been mentioned multiple times and inclusion of it requires nearly a complete rewriting of the epic. It seems improbable that Karna be made to the culprit of a crime (calling her a wife of 5 and therefore a w***e) is definitely not believable

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I have major problems with this.

I agree that Subhadra story puts Krishna and to a lesser degree, Arjuna, in a bad light, but how does this relate to nationalism?

Also, if we are to consider that abduction a problem, how about the abduction of the Kosala princesses, of Suyodhana's wife?

If the article is talking about the horrific treatment of women, shouldn't the concern apply across the board?

Seems to me the author is using the incident to make a political and/or religious point, instead.

The article is telling us how we celebrate and romanticize something which would have been considered 'rape' in today's time. Topic was to tell the readers about a lesser known story or a heavily manipulated story from Mahabharata

Duryodhana is already bad for people, His abduction of a Princess is not romanticized, they don't show his wife abducting him.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Topic is not about Bhanumati and Duryodhana or even abduction. It is about how various writers have changed the course of the story from real one being Subhadra’s marriage without her consent to Subhadra abducting Arjun.

They do not mention Krushna abducting Rukmani too, because it's not about abduction or the practice which was normal back in those days

I don't think the writer is talking about "Nationalism", He is talking about nationwide glorification of Arjun and Abhimanyu has led to writers changing the story of Subhadra.

How was the story changed though?

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

@bold - I think if you read the text, Krishna instructed him for it. Knowing Arjun, if Subhadra was his real love interest (only love at first sight ie attraction is mentioned in text) he could have easily asked for her hand. Krishna suggested it first, he was the one who asked Arjun to abduct her.

Also, I do not think Krishna would have done something of this sort if Subhadra was completely disinterested. I am sure she was not in love with Arjun as she didn't even know him, but I don't particularly think she had a problem with this. However she hardly has dialogues so this is my assumptions based on Arjun and Krishna's deeds and character. I maybe wrong.

However, I still don't think Arjun is to be really blamed alone. If we are talking about abduction of princesses, there are several such instances and we have fo address this point of abduction as a form of marriage as wrong.

Krushna's words - "Vasudeva answered, 'O bull amongst men, self-choice hath been ordained for the marriage of Kshatriyas. But that is doubtful (in its consequences), O Partha, as we do not know this girl's temper and disposition. In the case of Kshatriyas that are brave, a forcible abduction for purposes of marriage is applauded, as the learned have said. Therefore O Arjuna, carry away this my beautiful sister by force, for who knows what she may do at a self-choice.'

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01141.htm

Krushna asks Arjun to take her by force as they don't know her decision, the girl didn't get a chance.

That's what this article is talking about, Krushna and Arjun are heroes therefore they can't do anything wrong

Quote from the article - The problem begins when instead of questioning the epic heroes we start questioning the act of abduction itself. Did Subhadra license it? Why didn’t she scream? Maybe abduction is justified if done by the ‘Hero’?

Originally posted by: RamKiSeeta

When Krishna married Rukmini, it was not by force. She clearly writes him a letter begging him to take her away so she's not forced into marriage with another. There, Krishna makes a speech about how it's wrong and unethical to force a woman into marriage. I highly doubt the same Krishna, in the same epic, would force his own sister into a marriage not of her own choosing. Krishna always practiced what he preached. He would not make one rule for his wife and another rule for his sister.

My thoughts on this incident are that Krishna uses sarcasm when he convinces Arjuna to abduct Subhadra, because later on when Subhadra approaches Draupadi dressed as a Gopi, she and Arjuna clearly love one another. It was not a case of forced marriage where Subhadra is unhappy. Krishna often used sarcasm to convince Arjuna to do something, as Arjuna was one who had many doubts before taking a decision he felt was unethical. It makes more sense that Krishna would use sarcasm to convince him than that he'd condone forced marriage.

Did they show him asking Subhadra later on? Subhadra and Arjun stayed in Dwarika for almost one year before they returned to Indraprastha. Even now women who are forced live with their husbands happily, you'd see victim of domestic violence supporting their husbands. Point being it wasn't her decision, they made sure she doesn't get a chance to take a decision and it wasn't funny

I haven't seen a single Mahabharata version where they show the real event, In both BRC and SP Mahabharata, They show Subhadra abducting Arjuna

This need to cover or manipulate an incident comes from glorification of one character like Karna begging Duryodhan to let go of Draupadi during Dyut Sabha was part of a show glorifying Karna, they don't show real incident thinking it will hurt image of their hero

@NoraSM

Thanks much for the article link! 👍🏼

I find it difficult to stomach the fact that Lord Krishna gave his approval for his sister Subhadra's abduction by Arjun..

All my life, I have grown up reading / listening to the love story of A and S.. 😒

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

But if it wasn't for some confusion over the decisions of Subhadra, why was abduction needed at all? He could have simply let the Swayamwar happen and let Subhadra select Arjun(or anyone else she liked)

It's not mentioned in KMG but I think Krishna instructed abduction because Balaram would not accept Arjun and also Duryodhan was supposed to marry Subhadra. Or is this also a story created to justify their actions?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Abduction is wrong but it wasn't considered so in those days. Even Vedas permit Har Vivah as a form of marriage, so what Arjun did (or what Bheeshm or Duryodhan did) wasn't illegal or wrong.

The point here is that Krishna having his doubts over his sister's intention asked Arjun to abduct.

Yes this is something completely wrong. And I feel Krishna is to be blamed more than Arjun. Also, this is an instance which clearly shows he is human.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Translators and writers have done Draupadi and other women from Mahabharata dirty, They created false stories to make it look like Draupadi was responsible for Karna and Duryodhana's actions during Dyut Sabha, They took away the hero moment from her which led to these heroes living their lives as individuals rather than slaves and handed it to Krushna saving her.

This I completely agree with. As patriarchy evolved, women heroines, women characters have been repeatedly destroyed in order to give all their moments to male protagonists.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Who knows?😕 I'm inclined to think northern recension because of the cold political calculation on Krishna's part. Not many interpolaters would dare do that to him without couching it in a hundred excuses.

That makes sense, He is the hero, they wouldn't show him in such a bad light if they couldn't just side track from it or gloss it a bit