Arjun Episode 26: Old Sins cast Long Shadows - Page 3

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Queen.Bee thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#21
didnt watch the episode yet... after reading ur update.. it is like really watching it.. nice analysis.. and yeah me too feel like rathore is being sidelined too much and arjun is highlighted.. sometimes it feels like rathore is doing nothing and arjun seems like head of etf...

chotu's story... really felt bad for him... looks like everyone has a story... looking fwd to know rathore's...

Edited by Queen.Bee - 12 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#22
Inadvertent double posting removed.

Shyamala B.Cowsik
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#23
My dear Mushi,

I thoroughly enjoyed your very detailed and perceptive response to my post, and I am so glad that my writing appeals to you.

I agree with everything that you have noted parawise, except that I still feel that for the betterment of the show, Rathore has to be built up a bit., and consistently, not as now, one step forward in the chess episode and 2 steps backwards in this one.

As for Leena and Mary,they were both very wicked and they got off lightly, to my mind, if you think of the horrors they inflicted as drug peddlers, without any pity or any regrets, on so many young people.

Don't worry about that inadvertent bloomer; I corrected it mentally when I was reading your post!

And Mushi, do read my response on part 5 of your FF The Guilt, The angle you have brought out there just blew me away, but I do have some doubts and some questions for you, which I hope you will clarify and answer for me.

Take care, my dear girl.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: mushiroxx

my reply is in pink (or purple)😕 the colour is confusing me...😆😆

Edited by sashashyam - 12 years ago
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#24
My dear (could I have your real name, unless you would rather not share it?),

That is such a wonderful compliment! Thank you so much. I often , feel that my kind of analysis is not really suited for this forum, but posts like yours reassure me somewhat!

I have a feeling that Rathore's back story, as and when it emerges, will be as bad as Arjun's. It is just that though Rathore is less of an introvert, he is far more stoic than Arjun. He would definitely not wear his grief and his hurts on his sleeve.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: Queen.Bee

didnt watch the episode yet... after reading ur update.. it is like really watching it.. nice analysis.. and yeah me too feel like rathore is being sidelined too much and arjun is highlighted.. sometimes it feels like rathore is doing nothing and arjun seems like head of etf...

chotu's story... really felt bad for him... looks like everyone has a story... looking fwd to know rathore's...

SStephy thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#25
Wonderful analysis!! Its nice to read such posts and I hope you continue making such posts...
Yes, in this episode the murder victims too were criminals... criminals who had been able to escape human justice but not providential justice. It is unfortunate for the girl Mona who loses her mother and now has to live with the knowledge that both her parents were criminals (Hmm, but I do wonder whether she will be told the truth about her parents).
It was interesting to know about Chottu's past. I didn't think from that angle that this might make Arjun realize that others too have had to cope with trauma in their life... but then again, Arjun being an ETF officer comes across many victims and their families who have gone through such trauma and injustice, so I wonder would Chottu's story offer him any extra help to handle his own personal sufferings... I'm not sure.
Ok, about Rathore's contribution in the team... actually, this has come to a point where I find this quite irritating. I agree, the show is named 'Arjun' and Arjun is kind of a main character, etc. But that doesn't mean the makers should be trying to bring down Rathore in order to show Arjun as being clever. Actually, while watching the epi... I kept wondering exactly what is Rathore's contribution to the case except for listening to Arjun's suggestions and of course, doing the action scene in the end where he seemed to be doing something. I think the makers need to really strike a balance between Arjun and Rathore... I think they can show Arjun being right and Rathore wrong at times (esp where Rathore can be shown to follow the common path and Arjun comes with his out-of-the box thinking) and at other times they need to show Rathore being in charge and taking the right decisions... after all he is the chief or else what is the point of making him the chief?
The innumerable shooting scenes shown do make me wonder whether they are allowed to shoot all criminals like this... esp shooting to kill. I thought police officers are allowed to shoot criminals on their legs or something (without taking the life) if the criminals are escaping or something... unless of course the criminal has been issued with a shoot-at-sight warrant. And whenever these shooting scenes are shown, I always have this tendency to wonder what if the criminals (esp those shown as accomplices to the main criminal) are not really criminals or were just associated with the criminal but not involved in the crime... I mean, shouldn't they be captured and allowed to go through a trial instead of being killed...
Edited: Coming to your ques about the money matter...
What was Mary's share in the loot? I think Mary probably didn't take any share in the loot. It seemed more like the loot was done to help Leena and the child (the money was probably for their financial needs)... it seems to be a possibility.
And how did the police officer know about the money in the water tank? I think the writers could have added one dialogue in the end by the police officer where he confesses about the money but since that didn't happen... I'll just take a guess and say he might have got to know from Leena (aka Shika). If he did know that she and Mary were involved in the loot, he might have guessed the money would be with her and he might have searched her place or got the info out of Shika.
But why did the corrupt officer take only 2 crores? I can't think of any logical ans to this... It seems almost like the writers made the police officer take only part of the money so that Arjun can find the remaining money and use the clue...😆
Edited by S.Stephy - 12 years ago
mushiroxx thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#26
,aunty, thank u so much..😳 yes i also think rathore's role as chief needs a fore-front in the upcoming epis...😳 u corrected it😆
yes i read ur reply to my SS n don't worry i have all the answer's in my next update (hope they manage to satisfy u *fingers crossed*) thanks for the praises aunty, this means a lot to me😃
lots of love,
mushi😊😃

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Mushi
I thoroughly enjoyed your very detailed and perceptive response to my post, and I am so glad that my writing appeals to you.

I agree with everything that you have noted parawise, except that I still feel that for the betterment of the show, Rathore has to be built up a bit., and consistently, not as now, one step forward in the chess episode and 2 steps backwards in this one.

As for Leena and Mary,they were both very wicked and they got off lightly, to my mind, if you think of the horrors they inflicted as drug peddlers, without any pity or any regrets, on so many young people.

Don't worry about that inadvertent bloomer; I corrected it mentally when I was reading your post!

And Mushi, do read my response on part 5 of your FF The Guilt, The angle you have brought out there just blew me away, but I do have some doubts and some questions for you, which I hope you will clarify and answer for me.

Take care, my dear girl.

Shyamala Aunty

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#27
My dear Stephy,

Thanks a lot for your very kind comments. You have no idea how refreshing it is to have such an interesting and constructive exchange on a post!

Though what you have said about Arjun being familiar with the whole gamut of human misery thru his work is quite correct, I think it still makes a difference when it is a colleague, just as it would have a greater impact if it happened to a family member as compared to an outsider. That is why I thought that Chotu's revelations (which seems a tad abrupt and forced, and were not helped by the fact that the actor is rather limited in his facial expressions ) had been inserted for that purpose.

It remains to be seen when Rathore's back story emerges; Shree, with his bubbling sense of mischief, does not seem to be a promising candidate for a tragic back story! Riya would have been one, especially with that mental block of hers about shooting, but that door has now been firmly closed.

I see that we are of one mind re:Rathore, and I do hope the CVs try and balance things out a bit. As things are, this sort of equation would be intolerable to any boss, and especially in the police, which is a very hierarchical and rank-conscious service, for they need to maintain strict internal discipline more than any other government service except the armed forces. I was rewatching some of the old episodes, and there, even when Arjun offers counter theories, he does it less bluntly, and it is Rathore who issues the action orders, makes the team division etc. Since this last weekend, even that is gone, and Arjun is shown issuing all the orders and he commandeers both Shree and Chotu, so who then is there to work with Rathore? He is being made out to be a Watson to Arjun's Holmes , but then Holmes was not a police officer and Watson was not his boss!😉

I agree completely with you about the shooting scenes, which are excessive and over long, as are the fisticuffs scenes, come to think of it. When Rathore bashes someone up in style, I used to feel that he is imagining that it is Arjun at the receiving end and feeling a bit better! You would have seen my strong comments on the scene of Chotu shooting that thug in this post, but many other police forces also use excessive force, especially the American cops, with the New York and Los Angeles police being the harshest.

In India, police shooting is strictly regulated, and these kinds of fusillades would occur only against terrorists or in hostage taking situations. Here it is shown that way to enhance the macho quotient and to show many loving slow mo shots of unbelievably accurate ambidextrous shooting by a chap leaping out at the thugs and seemingly suspended in mid air! The bank van robbery case was a case in point for Arjun, and this one for Rathore.

This apart, the head shots shown very often are far too gruesome for an 8 pm show, a time when kids are still around. Remember the head shot by the contract killer in the Stolen Ganesha episode, which was repeated so many times in flashbacks? And the head shot by Riya in the swimming pool murder case? That too was repeated umpteen times. I feel they should tone down these awful close up shots, which must be off putting even for adults. They are like something from a Quentin Tarantino film, or from Anurag Kashyap's The Gangs of Wasseypur, not like something in a normal crime serial.

As for the open questions, I agree that even by exerting our collective imagination, we would not be able to answer the half of them!

It was fun discussing all this with you, and I hope you will find time to go thru any other analyses that I might write in the future as well. I was pleased to see that you had liked my post on the dead stockbroker case, but did you look at the other one, on the swimming pool murder (I have done just 3 so far)? If you have not, and you would be interested, it is at

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3220402

Take care.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: S.Stephy

Wonderful analysis!! Its nice to read such posts and I hope you continue making such posts...

Yes, in this episode the murder victims too were criminals... criminals who had been able to escape human justice but not providential justice. It is unfortunate for the girl Mona who loses her mother and now has to live with the knowledge that both her parents were criminals (Hmm, but I do wonder whether she will be told the truth about her parents).
It was interesting to know about Chottu's past. I didn't think from that angle that this might make Arjun realize that others too have had to cope with trauma in their life... but then again, Arjun being an ETF officer comes across many victims and their families who have gone through such trauma and injustice, so I wonder would Chottu's story offer him any extra help to handle his own personal sufferings... I'm not sure.
Ok, about Rathore's contribution in the team... actually, this has come to a point where I find this quite irritating. I agree, the show is named 'Arjun' and Arjun is kind of a main character, etc. But that doesn't mean the makers should be trying to bring down Rathore in order to show Arjun as being clever. Actually, while watching the epi... I kept wondering exactly what is Rathore's contribution to the case except for listening to Arjun's suggestions and of course, doing the action scene in the end where he seemed to be doing something. I think the makers need to really strike a balance between Arjun and Rathore... I think they can show Arjun being right and Rathore wrong at times (esp where Rathore can be shown to follow the common path and Arjun comes with his out-of-the box thinking) and at other times they need to show Rathore being in charge and taking the right decisions... after all he is the chief or else what is the point of making him the chief?
The innumerable shooting scenes shown do make me wonder whether they are allowed to shoot all criminals like this... esp shooting to kill. I thought police officers are allowed to shoot criminals on their legs or something (without taking the life) if the criminals are escaping or something... unless of course the criminal has been issued with a shoot-at-sight warrant. And whenever these shooting scenes are shown, I always have this tendency to wonder what if the criminals (esp those shown as accomplices to the main criminal) are not really criminals or were just associated with the criminal but not involved in the crime... I mean, shouldn't they be captured and allowed to go through a trial instead of being killed...
Edited: Coming to your ques about the money matter...
What was Mary's share in the loot? I think Mary probably didn't take any share in the loot. It seemed more like the loot was done to help Leena and the child (the money was probably for their financial needs)... it seems to be a possibility.
And how did the police officer know about the money in the water tank? I think the writers could have added one dialogue in the end by the police officer where he confesses about the money but since that didn't happen... I'll just take a guess and say he might have got to know from Leena (aka Shika). If he did know that she and Mary were involved in the loot, he might have guessed the money would be with her and he might have searched her place or got the info out of Shika.
But why did the corrupt officer take only 2 crores? I can't think of any logical ans to this... It seems almost like the writers made the police officer take only part of the money so that Arjun can find the remaining money and use the clue...😆

SStephy thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#28
My replies in maroon below...

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Stephy,

Thanks a lot for your very kind comments. You have no idea how refreshing it is to have such an interesting and constructive exchange on a post!

Though what you have said about Arjun being familiar with the whole gamut of human misery thru his work is quite correct, I think it still makes a difference when it is a colleague, just as it would have a greater impact if it happened to a family member as compared to an outsider. That is why I thought that Chotu's revelations (which seems a tad abrupt and forced, and were not helped by the fact that the actor is rather limited in his facial expressions ) had been inserted for that purpose.

It makes sense. As of now, they haven't shown Arjun reflecting on Chottu's story... but I guess they might show it at a later point...
It remains to be seen when Rathore's back story emerges; Shree, with his bubbling sense of mischief, does not seem to be a promising candidate for a tragic back story! Riya would have been one, especially with that mental block of hers about shooting, but that door has now been firmly closed.
Yes, it would be interesting to see other's back stories. Even if Shree doesn't have a tragic story associated with him, I think it'll still be interesting to know some background info about him.
I had always thought that Riya would have some story behind her... but yeah, with Riya's death, it doesn't seem anything would be shown.

I see that we are of one mind re:Rathore, and I do hope the CVs try and balance things out a bit. As things are, this sort of equation would be intolerable to any boss, and especially in the police, which is a very hierarchical and rank-conscious service, for they need to maintain strict internal discipline more than any other government service except the armed forces. I was rewatching some of the old episodes, and there, even when Arjun offers counter theories, he does it less bluntly, and it is Rathore who issues the action orders, makes the team division etc. Since this last weekend, even that is gone, and Arjun is shown issuing all the orders and he commandeers both Shree and Chotu, so who then is there to work with Rathore? He is being made out to be a Watson to Arjun's Holmes , but then Holmes was not a police officer and Watson was not his boss!😉
In the Holmes-Watson equation, it made sense if Holmes always had the upperhand because Holmes was the detective and Watson was just a friend accompanying Holmes duing the cases and not a detective himself. Here both Arjun and Rathore are ETF officers and moreover, Rathore is the chief. So it doesn't reflect well on Rathore if he is always shown to be incompetent in order to make Arjun seem like the 'hero'.

I agree completely with you about the shooting scenes, which are excessive and over long, as are the fisticuffs scenes, come to think of it. When Rathore bashes someone up in style, I used to feel that he is imagining that it is Arjun at the receiving end and feeling a bit better! You would have seen my strong comments on the scene of Chotu shooting that thug in this post, but many other police forces also use excessive force, especially the American cops, with the New York and Los Angeles police being the harshest.

In India, police shooting is strictly regulated, and these kinds of fusillades would occur only against terrorists or in hostage taking situations. Here it is shown that way to enhance the macho quotient and to show many loving slow mo shots of unbelievably accurate ambidextrous shooting by a chap leaping out at the thugs and seemingly suspended in mid air! The bank van robbery case was a case in point for Arjun, and this one for Rathore.
Yes, these shooting scenes are way too exaggerated and all the flying shots, etc. seem something out of a Bollwood movie. That scene in the bank van robbery case where Arjun was suspended mid-air for far too long... just made me laugh and somehow it didn't seem like the right reaction for such a serious scene!!

This apart, the head shots shown very often are far too gruesome for an 8 pm show, a time when kids are still around. Remember the head shot by the contract killer in the Stolen Ganesha episode, which was repeated so many times in flashbacks? And the head shot by Riya in the swimming pool murder case? That too was repeated umpteen times. I feel they should tone down these awful close up shots, which must be off putting even for adults. They are like something from a Quentin Tarantino film, or from Anurag Kashyap's The Gangs of Wasseypur, not like something in a normal crime serial.
The makers should indeed tone down these gun-shot scenes. It does seem a bit too much for an 8pm show.

As for the open questions, I agree that even by exerting our collective imagination, we would not be able to answer the half of them!

It was fun discussing all this with you, and I hope you will find time to go thru any other analyses that I might write in the future as well. I was pleased to see that you had liked my post on the dead stockbroker case, but did you look at the other one, on the swimming pool murder (I have done just 3 so far)? If you have not, and you would be interested, it is at

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3220402

Thanks for the link. I'll read through it.
And thanks for your reply.

Take care.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#29
My dear Stephy,

I am really getting spoilt with so much of pertinent comments from you; thanks a lot!

I quite agree with your take on the Holmes-Watson equation, which was quite different both because of the latter, as you have correctly pointed out, not being in the detection line at all, and also because Watson sees himself as a worshipful admirer and chronicler of Holmes' genius.

Rathod is increasingly getting stepmotherly treatment, and while I have not yet watched today's episode about the burnt policeman, I hope he gets some author-backing there; he really needs it!

Warm regards.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: S.Stephy

My replies in maroon below...

sangi1108doon thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#30
hii...well i always look up to ur analyses of d episodes...dis 1 was also really well written n touching each n every aspect...😊sorry for commenting so late...actually nowadays dont feel like logging in to d forum pretty often...m just a silent reader..😔but yes i do read ur posts thoroughly n enjoi dem a lot...thanku for d PM...😊

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