Arya OS: After that night part 2 page 10 updated

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ll-Shilpa-ll

@SIP1997

Sparkler

+ 7

Posted: 12 years ago

#111

Dear Shyamala

Thank you, and as I said I respect your point of view. In fact this is not the only forum where you will see the praises more than constructive criticism when it comes to the fictions, in fact they are hardly seen, I guess most people just don't comment if they don't like something and perhaps that is what surprised me most when I read you post.

Anyway as most of this stories are fictions most people takes liberty with things and writes things how they would want to see it happen.

Actually Indian television is not so very old fashion, I do not follow many serials but I have family members who do and sometimes I am in a place where I can't avoid watching those and I would have to say Indian television is getting bolder by the day. I won't list any serial here but there have been quiet a few serials that have shown scenes that you may think are inappropriate for the young audience.

Perhaps I failed to understand your POV because of the generation gap and my western upbringing but as I said earlier I have written nothing that today's young youth wouldn't be able to find at other places on the internet.

Even in USA, some places restrict husband and wife working together, but this is a fictional world, not everything has to be based on reality of things.

Again thanks for insights into how many people may think, I have learned something new.

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Purva

@Tani2804

Sparkler

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

#112

Another very beautiful story from u Shilpa Di...

its just awesum

i read d parts...u r one of the most wonderful writers...👏

romance, emotions , feelings were just perfectly portrayed in the story😊

👍🏼

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#113

Dear spb1971,

@blue. This is precisely why, as I noted earlier, you are an entirely admirable young lady. You can see the positive in anything, no matter how distasteful it might seem at first sight. This said, I am now a tad sorry I wrote in the first place, not because of the comments of your defenders (it is nice to see that they are so committed), but because of you. Regardless of what you say, I see that I have upset you, and it might have been better if I had gone along with the usual line and kept quiet, as you say most people do. As I had noted in the opening line of my first post, I almost did not. Well, since you say you found it useful after a fashion, let us leave it at that!

As for the husband and wife working together, the problem is only if one works under the other in the line of authority, not if they are in similar posts or in different departments of the same office. They key point here is that one should not be doing performance reviews of the other, for obvious reasons. Here too, as one can take it that both Arjun and Riya would be working under Rathod, it should not really matter, come to think of it.

As for Indian TV, there are no codified restrictions, and no overt censorship, as there is for movies. But there is an unwritten code, and also the question of audience acceptance, the audience for TV soaps being (presumed to be) mostly fairly conservative women. So, as far as serials go, I have not seen any overt scenes of kissing etc. (the only exception being a testing of the waters with one recent episode in a Balaji serial which I - and possibly a whole lot of others -found embarrassing. It was not even aesthetic, for that needs good lookers!). A rated films, even award winning ones like The Dirty Picture, are banned from daytime or early evening slots unless the cuts the censors want are made.

However, the fact also is that the same conservative TV serials routinely have the most regressive attitudes towards the role of women in the family and society that are far worse than kissing scenes would be (not that I want the latter!). These attitudes are completely out of sync with what Indian women are like, no matter whether they are working professionals or not, and I hate that, whereas I only dislike overt sensuality. For the latter, it is the generation gap, as we both agree!😉

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: sbp1971
Dear Shyamala

Thank you, and as I said I respect your point of view. In fact this is not the only forum where you will see the praises more than constructive criticism when it comes to the fictions, in fact they are hardly seen, I guess most people just don't comment if they don't like something and perhaps that is what surprised me most when I read you post.

Anyway as most of this stories are fictions most people takes liberty with things and writes things how they would want to see it happen.

Actually Indian television is not so very old fashion, I do not follow many serials but I have family members who do and sometimes I am in a place where I can't avoid watching those and I would have to say Indian television is getting bolder by the day. I won't list any serial here but there have been quiet a few serials that have shown scenes that you may think are inappropriate for the young audience.

Perhaps I failed to understand your POV because of the generation gap and my western upbringing but as I said earlier I have written nothing that today's young youth wouldn't be able to find at other places on the internet.

Even in USA, some places restrict husband and wife working together, but this is a fictional world, not everything has to be based on reality of things.

Again thanks for insights into how many people may think, I have learned something new.

Quote

angelirebelli

@angelirebelli

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#114

Dear Shyamala

I cannot help but respond to how you turned your initial comment. While the effort that you put in critiquing the FF is commendable, it was distasteful to us "defenders". Our response, simply rose out of the fact that you were being extremely critical of the writers work. If you go back to your first comment and the comment you posted most recently, you will find that there is a great difference in the tone in which those were written. Whilst you as a reader or a fan reserve your right to comment, it is also important to keep in mind the writers sensibilities. Brickbats/constructive criticism is always welcome when they are done in the right spirit.

Neither Jake nor I were trying to restrict you or your comment. We were exercising our right to defend a writer we love and present our case just as you were. There was nothing that was meant to offend you, it was done with the same spirit and objectivity with which you were presenting your case and used the same right you impressed upon to express your views on a free forum.

As far as the issue with moral policing goes, it is evident from the way you were trying to make your point about certain scenes in Part 1. Based on your own admission, a man indulging in PDA is not decent, even if the woman is his wife. What school of thought is this coming from?

To quote you. -"No decent man would behave like this with a young girl in full public view, even if she was his wife. Here, not only is she not his wife, but he has not even made a declaration of love to her. That she does not object, and actually responds, changes nothing as far this is concerned."

"The worst is that he is her senior and her mentor. This is a very distinct relationship of trust, and this trust cannot be breached in such a brazen fashion. It is not just unappealing, it is wrong..." - Why is this wrong ? Why is it brazen ? There is a possibility of them realizing their feelings only after a certain encounter and then they might take into all professional aspects into consideration and work on them. Reading your initial comment again has strengthened my belief in Jake' initial comment - you were trying to sugar coat your way into being rude which was neither correct nor justified. You could have toned your comment and still make a valid point conveying your message.

What is shocking is the way you changed tracks in the comments that followed very subtly referencing the defenders. If you believed in your critique and were sincere then you wouldn't have to keep referring to it as if you opened a can of worms or even Pandoras Box. When one critiques on an open/public forum, they should be ready to defend/discuss their thoughts without digressing or taking offence.

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Dear spb1971,
I am writing this with a lot of hesitation, for I can see that what I want to say will go against the trend of the uniformly approving comments on this thread. But I feel that it needs to be said, and also that it might reflect the views of many more members who have chosen to remain silent.
More important, I also run the risk of offending you, which is something that I would never want to do. So I hope that you will take this message in the spirit in which it is written, which is one of a constructive and sympathetic critique, meant not to run down your OS in any way, for I genuinely liked it, but merely to flag what I feel you definitely need to keep in mind for your future efforts in this genre, which I hope will be many and even better than this one.
I liked your piece a lot, the whole of it. You have a light touch and a fluid appealing style, and though you have focussed solely on the Arjun-Riya romance, it does not seem in any way incomplete because there is no other element.
However, there is one aspect about which I have very serious reservations. While it is true that you have not crossed the line specified in the IF rules, I feel that there is far too much of overt sensuality in your piece. This makes it not just PG but actually R-rated. This is both unnecessary, for you are a sound writer who does not need such shortcuts and, most important, it is not at all suitable for a forum which has many very young girls as members. If one were to go further down this route simply because of admiring comments, one could soon end up in X-rated territory.
It is true that you have tried to correct things in part 2, but still, it would have been much, much better without all the explicit stuff in part 1. Besides, romance, by its very nature, is most admirable when it is delicate and full of nuances, not HOT in capitals.
Secondly, what you have shown Arjun as doing in part 1 distorts his character. No decent man would behave like this with a young girl in full public view, even if she was his wife. Here, not only is she not his wife, but he has not even made a declaration of love to her. That she does not object, and actually responds, changes nothing as far this is concerned.
The worst is that he is her senior and her mentor. This is a very distinct relationship of trust, and this trust cannot be breached in such a brazen fashion. It is not just unappealing, it is wrong. It is not that a senior officer cannot fall in love with a junior one, but such a situation has to be handled with propriety. Eventually, the junior one cannot continue to work under her senior whom she, presumably, marries, for there would be an obvious conflict of interest.
As I said above, you are already a very good writer,and you have the potential to become an even better one. I would most earnestly request you not to fall into facile traps that demean your creations, and instead to concentrate to using your talent to the fullest in stories that combine mystery with the unavoidable Arjun-Riya romance.
Once again, I hope you will take this is in the spirit in which it is meant, and not take offence. If I had not thought that your efforts deserved an honest critique, I would have skipped this. But they do, whence this message.
Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Dear sbp1971,

No, I am not at all offended, and in fact I liked you response, for I always like people who fight for what they believe in.

No again, I have not been in the IF for very long, in fact only since April this year, though I did join formally in January. The only other forum I was active in was that for Pavitra Rishta, which is huge by comparison with this one, and focusses very largely on the actual serial. There, I never read any of the FF. In fact, on coming to this forum, I was quite taken aback by the volume of the FF and started reading 4-5 of them, including yours, which, as I said, I quite liked. So I am completely new to the genre.

As for your point of view, I can only quote Voltaire, who once said to someone about whose writings he had reservations, "I disagree with you to the death, but I would fight to the death to defend your right to say it". Of course all the 'to the death' part is wildly exaggerated, but you would get my drift!

This said, while you have not taken that stand and so this is not for you, I do not see why I cannot say what I did not like in this or any other piece and also what I would like you to do in your future efforts. That is the right of any critic, and you are, after all, under no obligation to follow my advice. It is a free forum, and so long as I do not cross the IF rules, I do not see any reason for anyone to accuse me of moral policing, for that implies compulsion, which is a non-starter here. And I am surely not obliged to limit my comments to unqualified praise. Though I must say that this seems to be the norm in this forum; in my limited FF readings, I am yet to come across even the mildest critique.

As for the effort put into FF, that is naturally to be deeply appreciated, but the writers do it because they enjoy it, and once they put something out in a public forum, they have to learn to take the brickbats (not that mine was intended as such!) with the bouquets. Which, in this instance, you have done, and admirably at that.

So I do not accept the kind of restrictions that jake and others would like to impose on me in terms of my responses to your FF, or indeed any other. It is in fact curious that while they insist that I should not tell you what to write and not to write, they have no such hesitation in telling mewhat I should not write!!

Where I agree completely with you is when you say that I am taking this too seriously. Point noted; it is probably the generation gap! However, I must tell you that Indian TV is far more old fashioned in what one can show on it, and I for one am glad of that.

Lastly, most offices, and definitely Govt. offices in India, would not permit one spouse to work under another. It would inevitably lead to accusations of favouritism, including in terms of the performance reports that the senior spouse would be writing for the other. Not that this should stop you from incorporating this in your FF; there is such a thing as creative licence, after all!

In conclusion, I would like to wish you all the very best for your future literary efforts, of whatever genre.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

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ll-Shilpa-ll

@SIP1997

Sparkler

+ 7

Posted: 12 years ago

#115

Originally posted by: Krishnaluv94
Awesome story!

Thanks so much.

Quote

ll-Shilpa-ll

@SIP1997

Sparkler

+ 7

Posted: 12 years ago

#116

Originally posted by: sashashyam
Dear spb1971,

@blue. This is precisely why, as I noted earlier, you are an entirely admirable young lady. You can see the positive in anything, no matter how distasteful it might seem at first sight. This said, I am now a tad sorry I wrote in the first place, not because of the comments of your defenders (it is nice to see that they are so committed), but because of you. Regardless of what you say, I see that I have upset you, and it might have been better if I had gone along with the usual line and kept quiet, as you say most people do. As I had noted in the opening line of my first post, I almost did not. Well, since you say you found it useful after a fashion, let us leave it at that!

As for the husband and wife working together, the problem is only if one works under the other in the line of authority, not if they are in similar posts or in different departments of the same office. They key point here is that one should not be doing performance reviews of the other, for obvious reasons. Here too, as one can take it that both Arjun and Riya would be working under Rathod, it should not really matter, come to think of it.

As for Indian TV, there are no codified restrictions, and no overt censorship, as there is for movies. But there is an unwritten code, and also the question of audience acceptance, the audience for TV soaps being (presumed to be) mostly fairly conservative women. So, as far as serials go, I have not seen any overt scenes of kissing etc. (the only exception being a testing of the waters with one recent episode in a Balaji serial which I - and possibly a whole lot of others -found embarrassing. It was not even aesthetic, for that needs good lookers!). A rated films, even award winning ones like The Dirty Picture, are banned from daytime or early evening slots unless the cuts the censors want are made.

However, the fact also is that the same conservative TV serials routinely have the most regressive attitudes towards the role of women in the family and society that are far worse than kissing scenes would be (not that I want the latter!). These attitudes are completely out of sync with what Indian women are like, no matter whether they are working professionals or not, and I hate that, whereas I only dislike overt sensuality. For the latter, it is the generation gap, as we both agree!😉

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Dear Shyamala

Let me correct you one more time, you did not offend me, nor did you upset me, I simply stood by my work and pointed out to you that there are far more sensual pieces on IF than this one, including my work on other forums. But judging by how you took the slight sensual parts in this one, I definitely think you would get upset if you read my other work.

Anyhow, I will always stand by what I believe in, but that doesn't mean I won't look for improvement in my work, I also am not set in my ways, I am very flexible.

Writing FF started out as a relaxing technique for me during a very stressful phase in my life, it is not my profession, nor do I want it to be, my calling and my passion is for something much more than this. This stress relieving technique is now a hobby for me that I try to improve upon as much as I can and I enjoy it, so I will continue to write whenever I can.

Anyway, let's call it a truce and best of luck to you also.

Edited by sbp1971 - 12 years ago

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Mahi

@_mahi_

Rocker

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#117

Shilpa,

you are so nice yaar. your response has left me amazed.😳

How can someone answer in such an intelligent manner 😆

n forget about this dude, i have read extremely sensuous stories before on IF.😆

n who says that young girls don't know about all this.😕

some people have no idea that puberty age has went down to 12 from 14.😆

so chill yaar

even though it is in IF rules but the mods know that every one is okay with such stuff.😆

just making sure that you know that i am your BIG PANKHI 🤣

Quote

ll-Shilpa-ll

@SIP1997

Sparkler

+ 7

Posted: 12 years ago

#118

Originally posted by: _mahi_
Shilpa,
you are so nice yaar. your response has left me amazed.😳
How can someone answer in such an intelligent manner 😆
n forget about this dude, i have read extremely sensuous stories before on IF.😆
n who says that young girls don't know about all this.😕
some people have no idea that puberty age has went down to 12 from 14.😆
so chill yaar
even though it is in IF rules but the mods know that every one is okay with such stuff.😆
just making sure that you know that i am your BIG PANKHI 🤣

Thanks Mahi, it means a lot. I have been writing for two years now, and as you can I have friends who are very passionate about my work, but this if my first time where I had to justify myself, but I agree it's time to let it go, I can't please everyone.

Thanks again my BIG PANKHI😆