Another bursaati? On a teetering foundation?

SaNiCo

@pageant101

Voyager

19

Posted: 15 years ago

#11

[QU
may be irreligious comes to mind too with this kind of writings

Ah ... but you forget that this is my chosen stance ... after reasoned rational thought and an assessment of matters factual ... 'irreligious' does not translate to 'immoral' (I believe I am a living example as are all of my 'heros' in the real world) ... the former mind-set is an anachronism ... I send in my money and support to secular organizations ... most of these others do naught for most ... as one of my favorite people has opined (paraphrased): 'many a god has gone extinct over the ages, we have only one more to go' (for the monotheistic)...

From KB's standpoint - how has Matarani's presence/involvement made a difference? Why is she/he/it needed in the plot at all? To quote that neighbor who went to the ceremony for 'peace of mind' ... my question - why can 'peace of mind' not be had from say - gardening?! Communing with the flora and fauna of this world, picking up a skill, learning something about the planet we live on?!!

Think about it ...

D. You are addressing them very beautifully as the mythologies and in the true sense this runs rampant in our bollywood and Indian culture and also in karol-bagh but having said that now karol-bagh writers are kind of making the KHICHDI of these various notions. You have benefited from the western ideals of skepticism free thought and humanism. Where these kb writers aren't.⭐️

2

Reply

Quote

461075

Suspended

Posted: 15 years ago

#12

Let me explain, I don't want them to show religious stuff, the statement said "characters of other faiths" meaning we do not see Muslim, Christian, Bhuddist, Sikh characters in any of the shows. We don't even see them in small roles - it's as though India doesn't have any minorities. That was my point. Anyhow, that's a whole other topic.

That was almost my point ... I brought this up on another forum and it was absolutely amazing how most of what I was saying might as well have been Greek! This bothers me a LOT! First, India is a secular country with more heterogeneity in its population than any other place on the planet ... yet what truly hits home is the 'tyranny of the majority' ... it would be akin to every show on American TV showing their characters running off to church for this that and the other and only 'whites' making up the entire cast (that is already a shame as is this bizarre notion that those of us from the subcontinent are now being classified as 'non-white' ... amazing how this nonsense can get extended to suit a certain sect! Even tho' the whole notion of 'race' is nonsensical from a biological standpoint, we're as much Caucasoid as a 'white' person!!)

If you're going to show one kind, then you are 'morally' obligated to give every other kind its fair share ... so, if our characters (i) frequent and (ii) do not discriminate between temples and gurudvaras, why are they also not shown to visit other 'places of worship'? Hindus are purportedly embracing of these other 'faiths'. The issue of minorities appearing in the show is just as much a valid point ... a grievous paucity that should be corrected!! The one saving grace (I'm being biased of course) is that at least they have had Poppa S. declare his atheism ... funny how he is one of 3-4 people who have a difficult time with morally dubious ways while those professing to be 'oh so pious' have no pangs of consience ...

The person here who liked Nakul may like to reconsider in light of this ... he has had no trouble bribing the police, telling outright lies, bullying, extorting information ... as for he and Mili being a couple - geez gimme a break!

There was a sliver of a 'social message' at the outset of KB ... the non-issue of an age disparity where love & marriage are concerned ... well ... if you can introduce a message of that kind, why stop there? Here's another instance ... is there the need for such expenditure and extravagance given one's financial constraints?! A smaller ceremony would not have pleased your favorite goddess??!! C'mon ... gimme another break!!

1

Reply

Quote

Bana

@Bana

Dazzler

20

+ 2

Posted: 15 years ago

#13

I agree that religious ostentation is a serious issue in India. In fact I had written in another thread earlier...

It is all very well for the Ambanis and Bachchans to pour money into temple coffers, but there is a trend of common poor folk putting their money in worship instead of saving and using it wisely to protect their futures. I don't want to offend anyone's religious sensibilities but surely worship is a spiritual thing that should come from the heart and money is not required to show it. Think Matarani will favour a lavish jagraata over spending the night quietly in front of the altar at home praying sincerely?

The Sethis should be spending what little they have on:

- the legal case to win back their house

- RS medical treatment

- saving for baby they believe AA are having

- separate house for SimBhi

- Mili's education and marriage

- RS retirement plan

Simi wouldn't borrow money from her own uncle for her father's emergency treatment but she takes an advance to hold a jagraata?

For more composite religious representation that reflects the realities of urban Indian society today, why don't you take a look at some of Sony's recent shows (I don't follow these so much but watch once in a while) - Rishta.com the office in-charge is an educated modern Muslim man, some of the couples that come in are also Muslim but not stereotyed into ethnic costume/ mannerisms. In Powder (an awesome show I follow) the top cop is Muslim as is the drug kingpin, the police informer is a Catholic girl married to a small-time crook who is Hindu. In Mahi Way, Mahi's best friend is gay, and there are almost no religious references in the show, it's a typical modern urban family.

2

Reply

Quote

pallavi25

@pallavi25

Inactive

40

+ 5

Posted: 15 years ago

#14

🤣
HILARIOUS POST, HONEY! 😆 😆
Matarani went deaf from all that singing and yelling so they had to go to Gurudwara!
Abhi must be stinky as hell in those jail clothes! 😆 😆

Edited by pallavi25 - 15 years ago

1

Reply

Quote

Laila Banu

@Laila2009

Rocker

27

+ 3

Posted: 15 years ago

#15

Originally posted by: Bana
I agree that religious ostentation is a serious issue in India. In fact I had written in another thread earlier...
It is all very well for the Ambanis and Bachchans to pour money into temple coffers, but there is a trend of common poor folk putting their money in worship instead of saving and using it wisely to protect their futures. I don't want to offend anyone's religious sensibilities but surely worship is a spiritual thing that should come from the heart and money is not required to show it. Think Matarani will favour a lavish jagraata over spending the night quietly in front of the altar at home praying sincerely?

The Sethis should be spending what little they have on:

- the legal case to win back their house

- RS medical treatment

- saving for baby they believe AA are having

- separate house for SimBhi

- Mili's education and marriage

- RS retirement plan

Simi wouldn't borrow money from her own uncle for her father's emergency treatment but she takes an advance to hold a jagraata?

For more composite religious representation that reflects the realities of urban Indian society today, why don't you take a look at some of Sony's recent shows (I don't follow these so much but watch once in a while) - Rishta.com the office in-charge is an educated modern Muslim man, some of the couples that come in are also Muslim but not stereotyed into ethnic costume/ mannerisms. In Powder (an awesome show I follow) the top cop is Muslim as is the drug kingpin, the police informer is a Catholic girl married to a small-time crook who is Hindu. In Mahi Way, Mahi's best friend is gay, and there are almost no religious references in the show, it's a typical modern urban family.

Thanks Bana, I saw these shows advertised and wanted to watch them all but only started with Mahie's Way, then we had some major home improvements and I stopped watching them. I loved the show and would have liked or expected Karol Bagh to have been similar to it with regards to Simi's character. Was I disappointed or what. The quality of writing for Mahie's Way is excellent - witty, inlelligent and very well done.

1

Reply

Quote

Laila Banu

@Laila2009

Rocker

27

+ 3

Posted: 15 years ago

#16

That was almost my point ... I brought this up on another forum and it was absolutely amazing how most of what I was saying might as well have been Greek! This bothers me a LOT! First, India is a secular country with more heterogeneity in its population than any other place on the planet ... yet what truly hits home is the 'tyranny of the majority' ... it would be akin to every show on American TV showing their characters running off to church for this that and the other and only 'whites' making up the entire cast (that is already a shame as is this bizarre notion that those of us from the subcontinent are now being classified as 'non-white' ... amazing how this nonsense can get extended to suit a certain sect! Even tho' the whole notion of 'race' is nonsensical from a biological standpoint, we're as much Caucasoid as a 'white' person!!)

Exactly!!!

If you're going to show one kind, then you are 'morally' obligated to give every other kind its fair share ... so, if our characters (i) frequent and (ii) do not discriminate between temples and gurudvaras, why are they also not shown to visit other 'places of worship'? Hindus are purportedly embracing of these other 'faiths'. The issue of minorities appearing in the show is just as much a valid point ... a grievous paucity that should be corrected!! The one saving grace (I'm being biased of course) is that at least they have had Poppa S. declare his atheism ... funny how he is one of 3-4 people who have a difficult time with morally dubious ways while those professing to be 'oh so pious' have no pangs of consience ...

Well pointed out!!! And he seems to have the best morals compared to everyone else. Goes to show all the pomp and show a moral person does not make. I don't know why people continue to equate religion and religous actions with morality. I am not againt showing anything religious but this is over the top with this show.

The person here who liked Nakul may like to reconsider in light of this ... he has had no trouble bribing the police, telling outright lies, bullying, extorting information ... as for he and Mili being a couple - geez gimme a break!

There was a sliver of a 'social message' at the outset of KB ... the non-issue of an age disparity where love & marriage are concerned ... well ... if you can introduce a message of that kind, why stop there? Here's another instance ... is there the need for such expenditure and extravagance given one's financial constraints?! A smaller ceremony would not have pleased your favorite goddess??!! C'mon ... gimme another break!!

Silver of hope which has vanished but sadly Abhi's bad dress sense and Simi's braid have reamined.

1

Reply

Quote

SaNiCo

@pageant101

Voyager

19

Posted: 15 years ago

#17

.

That was almost my point ... I brought this up on another forum and it was absolutely amazing how most of what I was saying might as well have been Greek! This bothers me a LOT! First, India is a secular country with more heterogeneity in its population than any other place on the planet ... yet what truly hits home is the 'tyranny of the majority' ... it would be akin to every show on American TV showing their characters running off to church for this that and the other and only 'whites' making up the entire cast (that is already a shame as is this bizarre notion that those of us from the subcontinent are now being classified as 'non-white' ... amazing how this nonsense can get extended to suit a certain sect! Even tho' the whole notion of 'race' is nonsensical from a biological standpoint, we're as much Caucasoid as a 'white' person!!)

If you're going to show one kind, then you are 'morally' obligated to give every other kind its fair share ... so, if our characters (i) frequent and (ii) do not discriminate between temples and gurudvaras, why are they also not shown to visit other 'places of worship'? Hindus are purportedly embracing of these other 'faiths'. The issue of minorities appearing in the show is just as much a valid point ... a grievous paucity that should be corrected!! The one saving grace (I'm being biased of course) is that at least they have had Poppa S. declare his atheism ... funny how he is one of 3-4 people who have a difficult time with morally dubious ways while those professing to be 'oh so pious' have no pangs of consience ...

The person here who liked Nakul may like to reconsider in light of this ... he has had no trouble bribing the police, telling outright lies, bullying, extorting information ... as for he and Mili being a couple - geez gimme a break!

There was a sliver of a 'social message' at the outset of KB ... the non-issue of an age disparity where love & marriage are concerned ... well ... if you can introduce a message of that kind, why stop there? Here's another instance ... is there the need for such expenditure and extravagance given one's financial constraints?! A smaller ceremony would not have pleased your favorite goddess??!! C'mon ... gimme another break!!

Hey D. now as I understand being secular means the nation as a whole to make the decision for the benefit for all the people. The decisions and the public policies to be based for all the citizens of that nations. And to be implemented an executed away from the religion. BUT THEN INDIA IS NOT A SECULAR COUNTRY. According to the constitution the SIKHS, THE BUDDHIST., AND THE JAINS they all FALL AS THE HINDUS so that being said the second part is true but the first is not. Check the link please and it is clearly stated here in this article and in the INDIAN CONSTITUTION.

Edited by SaNiCo - 15 years ago

1

Reply

Quote

461075

Suspended

Posted: 15 years ago

#18

Rishta.com the office in-charge is an educated modern Muslim man, some of the couples that come in are also Muslim but not stereotyed into ethnic costume/ mannerisms. In Mahi Way, Mahi's best friend is gay, and there are almost no religious references in the show, it's a typical modern urban family.

I best get this out of the way first 😊 If you haven't already I would advise you NOT to read my posts on either of these 2 shows!! In my estimation, all the nice sets and clothing aside, the basic message is either utterly vapid or seriously plagiarized! I also hate the deep-pocketed producers elbowing their way into Indian TV ... am ecstatic that one of my favs. 'Boogie-Woogie' is being revived! Sorry Laila - NONE of the dialog had tickled my funny bone! Enough said (from my end)!

It is all very well for the Ambanis and Bachchans to pour money into temple coffers, but there is a trend of common poor folk putting their money in worship instead of saving and using it wisely to protect their futures.

Will either of those 2 families go down in history for their philanthropy? I know that MIT has had an endowment from the Ambanis ... any Indian Univ. also extended the same privilege? So, we cannot expect any help from them in combating social ills ...

I don't want to offend anyone's religious sensibilities but surely worship is a spiritual thing that should come from the heart and money is not required to show it.

I cannot imagine how religious sensibilities can be offended by what you said ... personally, I am on a crusade with my atheist fraternity/sorority to dismantle this arcance notion that religion is somehow beyond criticism ...why does 'spritiuality' have any correlation with religion at all... or at least 'worship' ... 'worship' of what?! Were that this kind of discussion 'permitted' on this forum!

The Sethis should be spending what little they have on:

- the legal case to win back their house

Might be good to get someone to open up the Sethi Sari Bhundaar ... of course, we have no idea what it's going to take to keep the BBB at bay regarding this ... betcha it all falls by the wayside ... providing realism here will be overwhelming for the writing team 😔

- RS medical treatment

Gotta open up the shop first ... it's completely insane that no one can be found to take care of things! Anuj is as yet unemployed, so while he looks why can he not tend to the business?!! Providing realism here will be overwhelming for the writing team 😔

- saving for baby they believe AA are having

Anita & Anuj would be able to take care of this if Anuj joins his f-inlaw in running 'Taneja Industries' (my original idea) ... Providing realism here will be overwhelming for the writing team 😔

- separate house for SimBhi

Hubby Abhi and wifey should go find their own place ... even on rent ... we have no idea what job Abhi has secured ... betcha he does not go to work even one single day ... the paychecks will keep rolling in somehow ... maybe he's working for the Ambanis and is the recipient of their magnanimity?! Providing realism here will be overwhelming for the writing team 😔

- Mili's education and marriage

I never wanted Mili to get married ... just educated ... why does everyone have to be processed through a love affair?!

- RS retirement plan

Have to open the Sethi Sari Bhundaar to get going on this ...

1

Reply

Quote

461075

Suspended

Posted: 15 years ago

#19

The western definition of "secularism" is when the State and public policies take precedence over religious considerations. In other words, in the West, there is a separation of church and state. But most Indians, including their leaders, have their own self-serving bizarre definitions. One often cited goes like this: "equal treatment of all the religions by the State." Is that a desirable goal? If it is then how can any State achieve such a goal?

In the Indian context, I suppose the easiest way for the State to treat all religions "equally" would be to "get into" every religion equally and if need be, somehow proclaim all religions are one and a part of Hinduism -- therefore making everyone in India a Hindu. This is precisely what is happening in India. Since everyone is a Hindu, the leadership expects a response in kind. It usually shows in an intellectually flawed population which has stamped itself with a bogus notion echoed in the buzzword called sameness. This is an expression erroneously viewed as synonymous with equality.

OK ... so I've been touting and spewing falsehoods! Indeed, India is not a 'secular' country!! And why should the word be defined by 'Western' standards??!! For CRYIN' out loud, 'Secular' is a word in the 'English' language!!! English has its origins in the West!!! If that word is used, then adherence to its concept is unquestionable!!

SaNiCo - What I have read in your link is HORRIFYING!!!! The Indian 'Supreme Court' comes off as only SUPREMELY uninformed, unenlightened, and STUPID!!! The constitution needs to be rewritten in its entirety!!! I cannot believe that 'Hindus' are given such free rein even while the definition of the term is nebulous beyond belief!! Why did I think Nehru ought to have known better than to have been responsible for this travesty?!!

Third Standpoint: Addressing the often asked insidious philosophic question as to what is the "ultimate goal of humanity," the Court answered, "It is release and freedom from the unceasing cycle of births and rebirths…."

This is sufficient to show that the Indian S.C. is made up of people incapable of even a shred of critical thought!! And we complain that the US Supreme Court is wanting in certain respects!

No wonder the majority tyrannize the minorities! They have the full sanction of the state!!! That's SCARY!!!

I am now even more offended by that Hanuman monstrosity that used to be shown at the start of KB!!! I always wondered about how the State could have allowed such an open violation of their professed 'secularism'!!! There is no organization such as the NAACP in India that could even challenge the constitution??!!

I think there is all of 1 person on the KB 'production' team who is a non-Hindu ... Wow!!

I vote (and reiterate - per my first discussion about this on 'Debate Mansion') for a real clamp down on religious reference of any kind on TV!

Teachings such as peaceful co-existence, high morals, high ethical values, and respect for fellow humans are integral to any true religion.

Hmmm ... no wonder there IS no 'true religion'! This fellow is as naive as naive goes! He ought to read up on some of the 'fundamental' tenets of ANY religion only to find strife fully sanctioned! Here's one place where I disagree vehemently with the author!

1

Reply

Quote

461075

Suspended

Posted: 15 years ago

#20

Now in this case Omi/Neetu/Manju/and the whole gang standing there were all had done a bad deed to him and he had every right to be furious with them 😡 but didn't deserve to be slapped that way..😲

Kiddo - try assault and battery on someone in this country and see how fast your behind gets thwacked!! I have LONG been upset by the amount of sanctioned violence on Indian TV!!! See, that country is still in the dark ages when it comes to many, many things ... this kind of idiocy was seen as hilarious in these parts back in the days when the '3 Stooges' and 'Laurel & Hardy' were popular! We now recognize their antics as being thoroughly repugnant!!

Violence WILL happen in every society, but on Indian TV, it's done with complete impunity!!! What lesson has been learned by having Abhi go maniacal (he's not postal only because there is no easy access to guns) after Bhalla and even try to slit his throat??!! I even screamed 'holy murder' when Vicky spoke of his thrashing at the hands of the police with such insouciance ... did I get any kind of feedback from the members of this forum??!! Uh ... no!! So the Sunshiners did it again - the police battering Neetu in broad daylight!!! Not a voice was raised in protest!

As for Nakul being openly and wantonly 'furious'? Well, that is TRULY BAD FORM ... from someone of his purportedly 'urbane' family background?!! Class and refinement entail a great deal more than wearing a scarf around your neck like some 'English gentleman' (especially NOT in the middle of the Indian summer)!!! You don't bulldoze your way into a public setting and begin berating people for their lack of propriety!! He needs a year's training session with Ms. Manners who would be horrified at the ABSENCE of his!!

1

Reply

Quote

Another bursaati? On a teetering foundation? - Page 2

Related Topics

Explore Topics