Jodha Akbar discussion corner! - Page 21

My dear Henny,

I am sorry to be so late in responding to this one, but with my daily posts now, I am steadily increasing the backlog of comments to be responded to! I liked this post of yours a lot, and my comments are in blue.

Do keep writing; I would really want to hear from you often.

Shyamala (Aunty? Di?)

Originally posted by: smartfotografi

Hello Guys,

This is the first time i write my note about Jodha Akbar episode among the fans of Jodha Akbar who is admire a lot with a wide and depth ShyamalaJi's writing in Dhwani Forum and IF. I admire her writing too..even though i'm as a silent member (read: only read the discussion thread, and so on) at Dhwani Forum, Yes, first time i join to Dhwani Forum cause of Jodha Akbar.

I was in Dhwani since August 2013, and shifted there completely at the end of April 2014, with my 100th episode analysis. But soon I went off Jodha Akbar altogether and of Dhwani as well.

I start write at IF when i read at History_geek thread, his unique writing style to compare the JA story with a real history, make me glued at his thread. As usual in the beginning i write the posting at History_geek thread.

First and Second episode of Jodha Akbar.

My Note:

I start saw Jodha Akbar not from beginning, i start my eye and ear catch a scene when Jalal push Jodha to the wall and he thrust his face as close as to Jodha face and lock her body with his. He said "I married you just to vengeance and i hate you a lot" And Jodha said something words to warning this Shahenshah's fury in scary tone but she try to be polite. For me this scene is fishy and interesting. I already interest with this couple. So, i start to watch from beginning with that interesting feel. Yes, that was a scary but compelling scene.

First episode start with scene of many kind of mandir with background music (for me sounds like mantra recited). Why they are not show a mosques? This is a reason and the interesting one, cause the story is not about love story only, but story about a rise of a new Emperor who will love with whole Hindustan as it is include with this exotic mandir and the people who worship inside it with depth in their soul. This is why i accept and appreciated the CV, entering the story with this scene. Hindustan existence has been around for thousands of years, he is not change even though the ruler of Hindustan was change since The Great Emperor Ashoka till the new rise of Emperor Akbar.

No, no, the Ganesha stuti, and the temple are because Ganesha is the deity who removes all obstacles, and so no project is started without a prayer to him. You would have noticed that no other Hindu gods or goddesses were shown.

The Soul Talk scene, i'm not comment it cause ShyamalaJi was write it in depth and detail. 😉

First appearance of Jalal dan Jodha

The CV try to build a first impressed to the audience (viewer) Jalal and Jodha is a huge different personality and culture (of course), through the voice of Jalal in the Soul Talk and voice of Om Puri. Jalal identical with power and cruelty. Jodha indentic with kindness and love. The analogy of Jodha who become most powerful weapon to conquer Jalal, is familiar for me. We have many history about the princesses who's married with the powerful king for sake of peace and the other name is become alliance. The Jalal as Jallad and Jodha as compassion personified contrast was pushed too far.

I notice in Indian story (i'm only saw Mahabharat and Jodha Akbar, and start to Ashoka), the main character which describe as kindness and purity always personified who hold a pigeons or surrounded with pigeons (Shree Khrisna, Jodha, Dharma-Ashoka's mother) No wonder, the first entering Jodha describe with that kind of scene.

Now this is a delightful insight. I had not thought of this before. And though most pigeons are grey, the ones in films or TV are always pure white!😉

Second Episode, I'm only interesting at Jodha vow. For me, Paridhi delivered very well in expression, body language and also the voice tone. I notice too, in Indian line story when someone endure or saw a lot of pain and injustice he/she will take an oath, when, how, or what kind of way he/she will fulfil it, THATS the story. This too is a good insight. But there is a lot of oath-taking in Shakespeare too. In fact, an oath is either a substitute for immediate action to right a wrong, which might be impossible, or a substitute for that action and a confession of helplessness.

But i want to ask the fellow at the forum, when someone behind Jodha remind her how you want to fulfill it, you are a woman" and Jodha reply with "I know everyone looks a woman as a weak". My questions is this dialogue used word "aurat" (sound like that - i don't know about Urdu or Hindi), is that word in Urdu NOT Hindi/Marathi, as I know, they usually used "manila or stri" in Hindi or Marathi.🤔

You are absolutely right. Jodha should have said stree. But such mixups seem to be more common in Jodha Akbar than I had realised, with Bharmal saying maut, jahannun qayamat, which quite took my breath away, and Jalal saying yoddha, which is Hindi, not Urdu.

Reciprocal Dialogue

For me the encounter of they soul begin at Jodha heard Jalal name, she saw and feel his cruelty represented with his soldiers. At the same time Jalal also heard Jodha name right after his soldiers reported of they defeated. After that moment, both of them haunt each other. This kind of they inside emotions describe in reciprocal dialogue. This is spot on, the exactly correct expression!👏

Rescue Moti Bai

I delight when saw Paridhi run to burning Moti Bai, she's consistence run with a grace gesture till episode when Jodha heard Hussain hungry cry. She's run away with the same gesture to Rukkaiya hojra. 😳

Ok guys, this is the end my note for first and second episode of Jodha Akbar.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

No, my dear Khushi, I do not think it was mere bullying, If that was so, he would have exercised his droit de seigneur, and the willingness of the woman never entered into that. It is aimed at humiliation pure and simple. It looked ugly, but it is neither lasciviousness, nor a brute exercise of force for its own sake.

But he might have also wanted to show his Khan Baba how well he had imbibed his lessons.

The woman, incidentally was really pretty, was she not? Jalal never had any intention of forcing himself on her, that was never his nature, though, as he tells her, if she had come willingly, he would have taken her to his hoojra.

But on the whole, as I wrote to Ela above, her role in the matter was somewhat incidental. She was simply a means to an end, which was to humiliate her husband, and see when and how he would break. And the man obliges Jalal big time!

If he had said Mohabbat, kyonki meri mohabbat ke bina yeh zindagi koyi maine nahin rakti , I wonder what Jalal would have done. Killed him? I think not, for then the whole experiment would have failed. But I suppose he would have been even more furious, since the mohabbat he despises would have won!

The worst sufferer in all this was that poor woman. I am sure her spouse will cook up some story about her having tried to attract the Shahenshah and being allegedly rejected, to cover up his cowardice, and he will not take her back. She would not want to go back to such a wretch, but what choice would she have had in those days?

As for your expression of disgust about Bharmal being the same as mine, maybe we are a wee but telepathic!

Shyamala Aunty

That khushi was to show that as long as they think of him as the enemy they are game and when they accept him as emperor they become his children. 😲

Originally posted by: Sabdabhala

BUT KHAN BABA WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN SETTING UP THE EMPIRE AFTER HUMAYUN'S DEATH. HE NEITHER LACKED TE BRAINS NOR THE BRAWN. WHY THEN DID HE ALLOW HIMSELF TO FALL FROM GRACE THUS? HOW DID HE NOT SEE THE LIKES OF MAHAM USURPING HIS POSITION?

Vinashakale vipareetha budhdhi.

What caused the downfall of Raavan inspite of all being a great Shiv Bhakt, a great scholar whose 10 heads represent his thorough knowledge of the 6 shastras and 4 vedas, a capable ruler under whose rule Lanka was Golden Lamka and a maestro of the veena. His weakness blurred and overcame every good of his.

BK had only brain and brawn in comparison and power was his terrible weakness.

SECOND ONE IS WHEN THERE IS SUCH A STRONG BOND BETWEEN SUJAMAL AND JODHA, THEN WHY DOES EVER NOT THINK OF HIM AS A SUITABLE CONTENDER TO GET HER THE COVETED JALAL KA SAR? WHY IS SHE LOOKING FOR A SUITOR TO DO THE HONORS? SHE ADORES HIM, AND FEELS HE IS THE CONSUMMATE YODDHA,BUT YET NEVER OCE URGES HIM TO DO TE NEEDFUL. WHY?

She would have preferred her suitor and Sujamal to get the coveted head of Jalal. As of now she only says that her suitor should have the courage and ability to get her, her favorite Jalal head( which she ended up giving many many Dabur tel maalishes...😆..).. But by the time her marriage talks were in full swing Bharmal packed off Suja. She didn't have the time to push Suja as the mahayoddha to get her Jalal ka sar.

Originally posted by: ---Khushi---

@red: that precisely IS my problem with Jalal's behaviour here, Aunty...I know it's not like Jalal to force himself on any woman...but it took him a mere couple of minutes to destroy a woman's world...just to appease his Khan Baba who instigated him to do so...

Jalal loved his subjects like his children...then what WAS this?????😕😕

Not at this stage, Khushi. At this point of time, what would happen to that woman would have been the last thing on his mind.

No, he did not love his subjects like his children at this point. He only wanted to scare as many of them as possible to death. He evolved later, on his own, once he was free of Bairam's Khan's stifling tutelage. Bairam Khan was useful for the conquest phase, not for the consolidation phase. Think Asoka, pre and post Kalinga. Jalal did not have an epiphany, that is all, he blossomed like a butterfly evolving from a caterpillar.


Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: ---Khushi---

@red: that precisely IS my problem with Jalal's behaviour here, Aunty...I know it's not like Jalal to force himself on any woman...but it took him a mere couple of minutes to destroy a woman's world...just to appease his Khan Baba who instigated him to do so...

Jalal loved his subjects like his children...then what WAS this?????😕😕

Originally posted by: sashashyam

No, my dear Khushi, I do not think it was mere bullying, If that was so, he would have exercised his droit de seigneur, and the willingness of the woman never entered into that. It is aimed at humiliation pure and simple. It looked ugly, but it is neither lasciviousness, nor a brute exercise of force for its own sake.

But he might have also wanted to show his Khan Baba how well he had imbibed his lessons.

The woman, incidentally was really pretty, was she not? Jalal never had any intention of forcing himself on her, that was never his nature, though, as he tells her, if she had come willingly, he would have taken her to his hoojra.

But on the whole, as I wrote to Ela above, her role in the matter was somewhat incidental. She was simply a means to an end, which was to humiliate her husband, and see when and how he would break. And the man obliges Jalal big time!

If he had said Mohabbat, kyonki meri mohabbat ke bina yeh zindagi koyi maine nahin rakti , I wonder what Jalal would have done. Killed him? I think not, for then the whole experiment would have failed. But I suppose he would have been even more furious, since the mohabbat he despises would have won!

The worst sufferer in all this was that poor woman. I am sure her spouse will cook up some story about her having tried to attract the Shahenshah and being allegedly rejected, to cover up his cowardice, and he will not take her back. She would not want to go back to such a wretch, but what choice would she have had in those days?

As for your expression of disgust about Bharmal being the same as mine, maybe we are a wee but telepathic!

Shyamala Aunty

Sandhya, this is not Ibsen's world, this is rural 16th century Rajasthan. For all that her husband babbles about mohabbat, all this concept of love is alien to that kind of traditional environment.

Thanking Jalal? For what? For leaving her high and dry with nowhere to go, very likely? That woman was happy and secure just being married and respectable. Now all that is gone with the wind, poor thing.


Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Sandhya.A

Jalal only showed her the plain truth. If she had been a sensible girl she should have thanked Jalal for removing her illusion. There is a similar situation where the girl's imaginary world of love crashes when the husband reveals his true self in an adverse situation in 'A doll's house', a play by Henrik Ibsen.

It is individual perspective if ignorance is bliss or truth is valued.

Originally posted by: ---Khushi---

@red: that precisely IS my problem with Jalal's behaviour here, Aunty...I know it's not like Jalal to force himself on any woman...but it took him a mere couple of minutes to destroy a woman's world...just to appease his Khan Baba who instigated him to do so...

Jalal loved his subjects like his children...then what WAS this?????😕😕

shyamala was about to do a long post but got carried away after watching majhi the mountain man, i know its off topic but pl do watch it and would love to hear your views on it!

shyamala after watching the movie majhi i was wondering whose love was more great shah jahan's for mumtaz who built taj mahal or dashrath majhi who paved way through a mountain single handedly..how inspiring!

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Sandhya, this is not Ibsen's world, this is rural 16th century Rajasthan. For all that her husband babbles about mohabbat, all this concept of love is alien to that kind of traditional environment.

Thanking Jalal? For what? For leaving her high and dry with nowhere to go, very likely? That woman was happy and secure just being married and respectable. Now all that is gone with the wind, poor thing.


Shyamala Aunty