Provoked - Your views - Page 17

Originally posted by: Sound

She's not feeling for her husband. I think what she's trying to ask is was killing the husband only option available?? Could she not have resorted to some other help (plenty is available in Western Countries for dealing with abuse)Why did the woman not take an action sooner and if she was bold enough to buy petrol to set her husband on fire in the dead of the night, why didn't she simply seek help from authorities? As you said, she might not have been independednt enough, then her parents were at fault somewhere not to have taught her to fight for herself and to be independent enough to deal with the abuse hurled at her for 10 long years.

agreed neetu. maya mentioned somewhere she drove? well what more you could ask in terms of being independent? she could have taken her kids away from that beast.

Originally posted by: sandya_rao7

this reason which i gaev was for her not taking any action in those 10 years. and i dont believ it maya u r  feeling for her husband? how cna u feel sorry for such a big time beast?

Sandya, Don't get me wrong. I am not taking husband's side. I am trying to analyse her bold step. I find so many loopholes in her statements and whole incident. First for being financially independent how is that her husband's fault? Her parents ,not to forget are from affluent family, should have educated their daughter and taught her the value of being financially independent. She knew driving and had the guts to go buy petrol. She also delivered two boys. She lived there for 10 years so am sure she knows basics of English language enough to lodge complaint for abuse. She had so many options and ways to complain but she chose to take such a bold step. 😕 that too not spur of moment but a well planned one. She also told the court when she pleaded guilty that she took this step when her husband told her that he is leaving her for another woman.

Edited by Maya_M - 17 years ago

Originally posted by: .:Aphrodite:.

apparantly a lot of desi men were anti Kiranjit when this case was going on. They were like its their personal matter etc etc.

After years of spousal abuse, I do think people can be capable of killing them. It is very easy for us to sit on our couches and make a judgement but everyone's different. Kiranjit had no one in a foreign country, she was unaware of her rights and support out there. Even people born and raised in a western country put up with abuse. Its not black or white, its not like you got beat up by someone walking down the street. Its someone you love, trust. Victims usually blame themselves and it takes a while for them to understand that they deserve better. One day your partner can be abusive and then loving the next day.

My grandmother when she was growing up in India had neighbours where the husband used to beat up his wife in public and no one interferred. Everyone used to say "its their personal matter..". The guy used to drag his wife by her hair and beat her up. 😭 😭

 Very well said Aphrodite.... ...And that's what makes them wrecked between denial of the present and hope of the future things to be different....We are wired to believe people who claim to love us cannot hurt us and the downspiral of self blame starts its horrible descent... If the victim is lucky enough to emerge back up again to see reality as is , then the challenge is that of not swaying to either side as being survivor of abuse(which has its own set of probs) or immerse in bitterness but to be as normal as possible... Not easy scenario for anyone...  

 

Edited by lighthouse - 17 years ago

Originally posted by: .:Aphrodite:.

apparantly a lot of desi men were anti Kiranjit when this case was going on. They were like its their personal matter etc etc.

After years of spousal abuse, I do think people can be capable of killing them. It is very easy for us to sit on our couches and make a judgement but everyone's different. Kiranjit had no one in a foreign country, she was unaware of her rights and support out there. Even people born and raised in a western country put up with abuse. Its not black or white, its not like you got beat up by someone walking down the street. Its someone you love, trust. Victims usually blame themselves and it takes a while for them to understand that they deserve better. One day your partner can be abusive and then loving the next day.

My grandmother when she was growing up in India had neighbours where the husband used to beat up his wife in public and no one interferred. Everyone used to say "its their personal matter..". The guy used to drag his wife by her hair and beat her up. 😭 😭

Aphrodite, very well said.  First it is so hard to believe that your own loved one is doing this abuse to you.  By the time it all sinks in one is so over whelmed with the shame, blame and low self esteem that they can't think straight for themselves.  It is a tough place to be for anyone 😭.

When I was living back home I have heard a man burning his wife and throwing her down from 4th floor and killing her.  One neighbor where the MIL and SIL were emotionally, Verbally abusing DIL while husband was beating wife and there was nothing one could do.  His insecurity was that he himself could not produce child so it was easy for him to blame his wife.  When I think of that family I still feel so bad for the woman who I used to call "Mami" 😭 😭.  Such a beautiful, loving, hard working and dedicated woman to her IL's family.  What did she get after yrs of marriage and beating was Divorce?  Thank god she is alive.  Divorce is better than getting killed everyday.  These type of things happens in very well to do family in very nice neighborhoods too. 

Edited by Dabulls23 - 17 years ago

Originally posted by: Dabulls23

Aphrodite, very well said.  First it is so hard to believe that your own loved one is doing this abuse to you.  By the time it all sinks in one is so over whelmed with the shame, blame and low self esteem that they can't think straight for themselves.  It is a tough place to be for anyone 😭.

When I was living back home I have heard a man burning his wife and throwing her down from 4th floor and killing her.  One neighbor where the MIL and SIL were emotionally, Verbally abusing DIL while husband was beating wife and there was nothing one could do.  His insecurity was that he himself could not produce child so it was easy for him to blame his wife.  When I think of that family I still feel so bad for the woman who I used to call "Mami" 😭 😭.  Such a beautiful, loving, hard working and dedicated woman to her IL's family.  What did she get after yrs of marriage and beating was Divorce?  Thank god she is alive.  Divorce is better than getting killed everyday.  These type of things happens in very well to do family in very nice neighborhoods too. 

Even though all you say is correct and what I beleived in earlier on. I think Maya has a point and I am really on the fence on this one

All the years she did not do anything, when she knew he was gonna leave her for another woman, then😕

I dont if if it was the feeling of someone you love is gonna leave you and to stop it she did it Or she didnt want this to happen to another person that's why she did it.

The primary cause that she had enough and wanted it to end kind of seems to have little significance, just my opinion, what do I know I am not her and I am a man anyway😆

I guess I covered all bases😉

Originally posted by: .:Aphrodite:.

apparantly a lot of desi men were anti Kiranjit when this case was going on. They were like its their personal matter etc etc.

After years of spousal abuse, I do think people can be capable of killing them. It is very easy for us to sit on our couches and make a judgement but everyone's different. Kiranjit had no one in a foreign country, she was unaware of her rights and support out there. Even people born and raised in a western country put up with abuse. Its not black or white, its not like you got beat up by someone walking down the street. Its someone you love, trust. Victims usually blame themselves and it takes a while for them to understand that they deserve better. One day your partner can be abusive and then loving the next day.

My grandmother when she was growing up in India had neighbours where the husband used to beat up his wife in public and no one interferred. Everyone used to say "its their personal matter..". The guy used to drag his wife by her hair and beat her up. 😭 😭

Aphrodite, Thanks for posting your views. Here at DM all of us at some point become judgmental and in this case don't get me wrong. We need to analyse things from all angles. Just because someone plays devil's advocate doesn't mean that the person actually advocates that or supports that. If everyone posts that Deepak was abusive and Kiranjit was right then there is no argument here.

I like your point that it is just not South Asian women but women all over get abused and some even continue to stay in the same relationship. I would love for someone to make a topic on the same. I think that would be a valid topic. But here we are mainly focussing on Kiranjit and ladies like her who are married off to some NRIs and parents just wash off their hands.

There is absolutely no excuse for abuse whether physical or verbal and it is not personal. It is cowardice if someone actually sees a husband beating wife or vice versa and still keep quiet. Neighbors have an important role here and they can report abuse too. In countries like UK and US spousal abuse gets immediate attention too. I have seen some cases here in US where women like Kiranjit have called 911 and husband spent few days behind bar then wife took the complaint back because she needs him for all the support fnancially, the most important.

I have earlier agreed to Persy's argument that woman who are in abuse for too long lose some sense of reality and that might have prompted her tot take such a drastic step. But in the court when she pleaded not guilty she said two things one of which was about her husband's infidelity and other was that her husband was loving often and only sometimes abusive. She still maintains that and advises all women not to follow her step. And that is what I am saying too don't follow her step, don't take such drastic steps, you know to drive, you know the language, come out of abusive relationship and stand up for yourself.

Edited by Maya_M - 17 years ago

Originally posted by: sareg

Even though all you say is correct and what I beleived in earlier on. I think Maya has a point and I am really on the fence on this one

Sareg, I argued from both sides too. It is nice to hear different take on the same subject. Don't sit on the fence for too long it is painful 😆.

[Quote=Sound] She's not feeling for her husband. I think what she's trying to ask is was killing the husband only option available?? Could she not have resorted to some other help (plenty is available in Western Countries for dealing with abuse)

i think that was the only option therefore she did it otherwise y would she risk imprisonment in some other country? y would a timid woman like her go to such an extent as to kill her husband?

as far as west is concerned i dont knw abt their laws and how many laws apply if u r married under hindu marriage act.and if there r so many laws then y do we hear so many murder cases of NRi wifes?

Why did the woman not take an action sooner and if she was bold enough to buy petrol to set her husband on fire in the dead of the night, why didn't she simply seek help from authorities? As you said, she might not have been independednt enough, then her parents were at fault somewhere not to have taught her to fight for herself and to be independent enough to deal with the abuse hurled at her for 10 long years.
[/QUOTE]

either she had no other option but to kill him to gain her independence or she did what she did without planning just in the spur of a moment. in both cases i think she is innocent.i think she either did not have courage to revolt or she did not find anywhere to turn to or didnt knw where to go.

her story reminds me of agnisakshi her husband seems similiar to nana patekar.in that he did not allow her to communicate with anyone not even her father so that she can tell her problem to him.

but one thing is clear that she did not have anyother option but to kill her husband otherwise she would not have done it as she seemed to be such a timid woman.

Edited by sandya_rao7 - 17 years ago

about the bit her saying that she toothat step bcoz her husband said that he will marry someone else. i will say that she endured all that for so many years to keep her marriage she had atleast that much satisfaction that her children and she has a secured family but when she comes to knw that all her pains have been in vain and what all she had been enduring was useless naturally she lost her temper and she would ahve even thought that this man wil destroy another life,if i leave he will marry another then another may be even kill me if i revolt at this point so she did not have any other option but to kill him.

Originally posted by: sandya_rao7

[Quote=Sound] She's not feeling for her husband. I think what she's trying to ask is was killing the husband only option available?? Could she not have resorted to some other help (plenty is available in Western Countries for dealing with abuse)[/quote]

i think that was the only option therefore she did it otherwise y would she risk imprisonment in some other country? y would a timid woman like her go to such an extent as to kill her husband?

as far as west is concerned i dont knw abt their laws and how many laws apply if u r married under hindu marriage act.and if there r so many laws then y do we hear so many murder cases of NRi wifes? [/quote]

As far as I know, west has no laws for religion. An abuse is an abuse no matter who committed it. I haven't heard of the many murder cases of NRI wives. There are inhuman husbands everywhere. We hear of enough wives being killed in India. With the NRI husbands, problem lies with the parents of the girl who do not take any precautions and do not even bother with a background check of the person they are marrying off their daughter to. They haven't given their daughters right upbringing and she lacks confidence in herself to fight for her rights.

[quote=sandhya][quote=Sound]
Why did the woman not take an action sooner and if she was bold enough to buy petrol to set her husband on fire in the dead of the night, why didn't she simply seek help from authorities? As you said, she might not have been independednt enough, then her parents were at fault somewhere not to have taught her to fight for herself and to be independent enough to deal with the abuse hurled at her for 10 long years.

either she had no other option but to kill him to gain her independence or she did what she did without planning just in the spur of a moment. in both cases i think she is innocent.i think she either did not have courage to revolt or she did not find anywhere to turn to or didnt knw where to go.

her story reminds me of agnisakshi her husband seems similiar to nana patekar.in that he did not allow her to communicate with anyone not even her father so that she can tell her problem to him.

but one thing is clear that she did not have anyother option but to kill her husband otherwise she would not have done it as she seemed to be such a timid woman.

That's the whole point Sandhya: how timid do you think a woman would be if she dared enough to kill her husband?? It wasn't a spur of the moment decision if she had thought abot it long enough to have gone and bought petrol during the day.
If she risked imprisonment by killing him, how did she gain independence??
Independence from an abusive husband maybe, but at what cost?? We shall never know what she had gone thru at that time and what was her mental condition. But had she thought long enough, there were other options available for her. I can't blame her for what she did since I cannot fathom what she must have gone through.....but as Maya has mentioned repeatedly what prompts her to discourage other women in her position from doing what she did? Maybe now on rational thinking, she realises there were other options available to her.