Swanand Kirkire on Animal: Felt pity for women of today’s generation - Page 4

Originally posted by: Clochette

Actually Simran's fate is - imo - decided by the faith that love is more powerful than questionable traditions. The boyfriend's decision in the first part had been to respect the girl and care for her well-being... in the second part to marry her with the father's consent to give their marriage a future including harmony with both family sides.

I think you love DDLJ so much that you are excusing Simran's lack of autonomy. At no point was Simran consulted. Her marriage was fixed by her father without her even seeing the groom. Her consent was not asked which is definitely not how an arranged marriage works. Her boyfriend decided to make an impromptu visit to India without her invitation. She wanted to elope. But no, Raj gets to decide that he'll marry with the permission of her father. She doesn't stand up to her father and lets the men in her life decide her fate.

Originally posted by: capricornrcks

I think you love DDLJ so much that you are excusing Simran's lack of autonomy. At no point was Simran consulted. Her marriage was fixed by her father without her even seeing the groom. Her consent was not asked which is definitely not how an arranged marriage works. Her boyfriend decided to make an impromptu visit to India without her invitation. She wanted to elope. But no, Raj gets to decide that he'll marry with the permission of her father. She doesn't stand up to her father and lets the men in her life decide her fate.

Sorry to barge in ... but just adding my two cents here.

There is a thing called "parental pressure" which is real in Indian families.

What DDLJ did was that it used this issue as a plot device, and showed the audience how parental pressure affects the lives of children. Not all decision made by your father can be right, despite his good intentions.

And what nonsense is this, "She wanted to elope but Raj gets to decide"?  LMAO. 

Raj did not want Simran to leave and betray her family by eloping, because he believed her father would turn around, and he did in the end. So, the ultimate messaging of the film was positive.

It's not lack of autonomy. Its about doing the right thing.  The father consents to his daughter's love and her marriage to Raj, despite being a strict disciplinarian all his life. He had a change of heart, for the better.

DDLJ had its flaws but those flaws are far from the disturbing portrayal of women in films like Animal.

I can't believe this has to be underlined.

Originally posted by: capricornrcks

I think you love DDLJ so much that you are excusing Simran's lack of autonomy. At no point was Simran consulted. Her marriage was fixed by her father without her even seeing the groom. Her consent was not asked which is definitely not how an arranged marriage works. Her boyfriend decided to make an impromptu visit to India without her invitation. She wanted to elope. But no, Raj gets to decide that he'll marry with the permission of her father. She doesn't stand up to her father and lets the men in her life decide her fate.

DDLJ has been admired by feminists on some pretext or the other.....The movie had patriarchy and misogyny to the nth degree.......sapne dekho per unke poore hone ki ummeed mat rakho......Father deciding the fate of his daughter....the girl who was raised in London.......was supposed to marry a guy she had never met and supposed to leave her life and go live in a village.......Raj makes fool of a young girl.....to get to Simran.....no patriarchy and no misogyny eh.....just because in the end Babuji said...jaa Simran jaa.....and everything was good.......

I don't like DDLJ but I have watched it for SRK........KHNH......6din...ladki in...no misogyny either......Indian movies are full of misogyny....some times its subtle.....sometimes its in your face....If you are truly against what these movies show....stop watching them....stop praising your favorites who work in them......or take it with a grain of salt......and understand that an adult is responsible for their own action....don't give these raving lunatics who go after a woman to harass/molest/rape.....the excuse of a movie.....these lunatics need jail....not excuses being made for them...

Come on guys, DDLJ was made in 1995. At that time the world was different. Yes, the movie had patriarchal bits with the father arranging marriage for his daughter without consulting her. It’s insinuated that it was decided when they were kids itself. So for that era what happened in DDLJ was normal . Even today in many families even the progressive looking ones , the parents are the ones who decide marriages for their daughter or son in many parts of India. 

In fact, in DDLJ Simran going on a Euro trip with her friends  is progressive for the time coz girls weren’t allowed even that freedom. 

Thankfully, things have changed since then in India. Can’t compare 1995 DDLJ with 2023 Animal based on patriarchy. It’s almost 28 years back. 😬😬

Edited by Joannna - 5 months ago

Animal success is coming from Violence & Sex, replace Ranbir with Sunny Leone, film will even earn more than what it is earning.

We should decide what we need in real life, coz this film will inspire men to go that extent.

Originally posted by: Joannna

 Can’t compare 1995 DDLJ with 2023 Animal based on patriarchy. It’s almost 28 years back. 😬😬

That scene in DDLJ where Raj made simran think they slept together (even if lasted all of 2 minutes) would not be able to be written today. Even in Hollywood they would think it’s too problematic. Cause I’ve seen similar stuff in 90s shows but not anymore 

An it all makes me wonder what kind of movies we are getting 28 years from now 

Originally posted by: Beautyful_Mess

It’s the fact that we all know why he made this movie that makes of all of it so much worse. People complained about Kabir and his mistreatment of Preeti and upset about the criticism Vanga promised us he will come with even worse movie and he delivered his promise yet even though we knew his intentions people are falling for it, seeing it, celebrating it and even defending it, denying the obvious problematic aspects (which is all of Animal). We can deny all we want but we (the society) bear some responsibility cause it’s we who are encouraging this deranged man by giving him money for his sick fantasies. 

pretty much summed up my feelings for Vanga..that arrogant sick man needs help..not more money to make more misogynist and psycho male lead centric movies..as for the actors choosing to be a part of it..I don’t blame RK specifically because when he was doing amazing movies like Wake up Sid and Rocket Singh..the audience dint care ..he himself said that he will select movies not basis his own liking but basis what can potentially make money and I feel sad that this is what is working with the audience..Coalverse, Pushpa kinda movies started this trashy 80s trend of Ott violence and angry crazy men..we can’t do anything but lament about it. 

DDLJ  comeon we can’t compare DDLJ to the shit Vanga makes..it’s one of the few SRK movies I love to go back to..unlike KKHH which was simply cringe..DDLJ was actually decent on all counts..and Simran does get to Jee loo her zindagi (wearing backless dresses no less with her girl pals..aaj bhi Goa girls trip plan karne ke time permission Leni padti hai bhai ) and that was early 90s where Simran’s dad is what all Dads were mostly  but in the end she does get her happily ever after with Raj but hey if you make trash like Kabir Singh and Animal in 2022-2023..and people accept it and men go around mocking feminists..and applaud nonsense where Kabir orders Preeti to put her dupatta and who she should sit with and slaps her and claims authority on her and I refuse to watch Animal..like shut up and sit down 

My understanding of art is: One can make provocative things but they shouldn't be shallow and just done to mock genuinely positive values...

Vanga missed a meaningful opportunity (Arjun Reddy, although, indeed had been of another quality) ...but with the crores coming in, his  provocation gets renumerated...of course other such movies will follow suit.

Isn't Salaar (the director remaking a former of his own movies) in the same vein?

I am not excusing the misogynistic drivel which Vanga serves out in his movies.I understand that Animal is way more toxic than DDLJ. I was just pointing out that he's a product of his environment. Telugu cinema unfortunately has taken Simran template to heart.

Simran at least has the excuse of being a teenager (has she been to College yet?) and being financially dependent on her father and has never lived apart from her family before the Euro trip.I understand her vulnerability and succumbing to parental pressure. But I've seen any no: of Telugu movies where independent working women are bullied/blackmailed by their fathers to marry their choice. The hero rides to the rescue and negotiates with the father. The woman is treated like a disposable asset.And what if Amrish Puri had never relented? What was SRK's contingency plan?

Edited by capricornrcks - 5 months ago