EDT - episode #3 and #4 - Dec 7 and 8, 2022 - Page 2

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

so trying to organize my thoughts here -- especially when I know what is coming up ahead. I wasn't sure where to post this but decided to post it here -- in reaction to the lady making a pass at viaan.

now it may seem confusing considering the upcoming actions of viaan. also he seems to have to a good relationship with his mom. so why does he judge women this way? or is he specifically prejudiced against certain type of women -- personality or working women? viaan is going to be complex and there may not be cut and dried answer. 

lot of how we react to viaan will depend on our values, thoughts and approach to life. some of us are more conservative while others not as much. I don't want to say 'modern' because hooking up has always existed. so it seems silly to use that word to describe a no-holds physical relationship. instead, I will use the word my elders used -- 'fast lifestyle'. 

much as we like to pretend that we are all super sanskari, our society is made up of all sorts of people who can be leading very different lives than what is defined as 'sanskari'. 

much of the 'fast lifestyle' is not something that is necessarily talked about openly. however, it is not new and happened in different ways even in my parents generation. 

depending on where we are, we can have different reactions to this 'fast lifestyle'. I have heard stories from friends and colleagues who are much more open to hooking up. as I am conservative and religious, some of the random anecodotes I heard really made my head spin -- "does this actually happen in India?" 🤯😵😮

there are plenty of people who have flings in office. these are not affairs but just flings - so no emotions or a relationship but purely a physical thing. 

in one incident, the two colleagues had a fling and we were all weirded out by the way these two acted -- with her giggles and his sheepish smiles. then, they both give out wedding invitations to other people and both their weddings are close to each other!! basically both were in long-term relationships but since it was long-distance, these two hooked up to have a fling prior to the wedding. then it was business as usual and on went the weddings. the rest of us in the team certainly gave the side eye and found both of them very strange.  there was plenty of gossip chatter. 

however, you hear of lot of such incidents in the workplace.

there are instances where both are married and have a physical fling. then when it goes south, one accuses the other of harassment. or there is a fling specifically for work advancement or other benefits. or they are just unhappy and have a fling for fun though neither want to break their marriage. 

then there are folks who are active on dating apps who are only looking to hook-up. have heard that some even use the matrimonial websites as a place to hook-up. I almost fell off my chair when I heard that there are some who go through arranged marriage model but insist on sleeping with their potential spouse first to ensure there is physical compatability. I was like "wait, what??????"  🤯😵😮

now, the clashes happen when you have different sets of values or when you start to want different things. so one of my friends has had a number of flings after her divorce. however, she does want to settle down but is not able to find someone. she does not fit the typical matrimonial website profile (as a divorcee) but she no longer wants to just have flings. one guy told her that he just wants to have a good time and is not looking for a relationship. for those who want a relationship first before progressing to marriage (especially after something like a divorce), the rules can also be difficult to figure out. 

back to our drama, if the girl had made a pass at ishaan instead of viaan, he may have thought "lets have fun". now how it would have played out may have been different. did she pick viaan because he is the boss? or was she truly interested in him? was it because she wants advancement? then, her fling is not really a fling but something that comes with terms and conditions -- something transactional. now if two people are buying and selling of their own choice, then how do we view this? is it okay to express romantic interest in the office? at what point does interest become harassment? when is it is sleazy and when is it fun/romantic? 

we live in times where there are no set rules for courtship (conservative or not-so-conservative) or relationships. sometimes people know what they want and sometimes people don't. so what is sleazy to one is not necessarily to another. however, it all becomes more complicated when emotions come to fore. someone could indicate a genuine interest but it can also be taken the wrong way as just a pass. people can be judged and seen as emotionless, characterless etc etc, even when they may be looking for a genuine relationship as well. some people have the wrong impression that people of a certain class or personality are more sanskari than other.  

I sound like a jumble and in some ways, I am. I guess what I am trying to say is that how we react to the scenarios in this drama will also depend on where we are. there won't be clear answers -- there are going to be sparks in this forum! 

Just like u recently I came across a situation where i got to know about fast style of my benchmates ..first i was shocked i live in a small city they live in a room near to my city like a village ..At first i was unable to digest it 

I was like how could they ?? 

Is it really true ??the one who told me may be lied.some time later i thought wt everyone would think of me as I was with them ?

Later i thought they didn't have any fear of their deeds ..I watch movies read mature stories on Wattpad ..i couldnt get why I was like this ??

I am ok with all these in love but random one on many is wt I can't digest that too i thought it happens in big cities but here right infront of me is what bothers me ..

I was never in any relationship after seeing all these I'm very afraid of a relationship or marriage ..

As u have said in this show the ML is a complex person  ..let's see what triggers him to ask FL like that ??

I was very angry on her FIL how could he ?? Can't he give her money as a loan??

Originally posted by: RiAnsh21

Just like u recently I came across a situation where i got to know about fast style of my benchmates ..first i was shocked i live in a small city they live in a room near to my city like a village ..At first i was unable to digest it 

I was like how could they ?? 

Is it really true ??the one who told me may be lied.some time later i thought wt everyone would think of me as I was with them ?

Later i thought they didn't have any fear of their deeds ..I watch movies read mature stories on Wattpad ..i couldnt get why I was like this ??

I am ok with all these in love but random one on many is wt I can't digest that too i thought it happens in big cities but here right infront of me is what bothers me ..

I was never in any relationship after seeing all these I'm very afraid of a relationship or marriage ..

As u have said in this show the ML is a complex person  ..let's see what triggers him to ask FL like that ??

I was very angry on her FIL how could he ?? Can't he give her money as a loan??

yea, we live in some strange times. people who seem all innocent or from small towns are sometimes very fast compared those who live in the city. whereas people who are exposed and cosmopolitan but are very conservative. so there is no connection between where you live, what your personality is, your community and how you choose to conduct your life. end of the day, it seems to be a choice.

it can be difficult to judge at times because some of these fast people have very nice hearts. so why are they making such decisions -- is it just biological need/instinct that all of us have? does it not complicate their life? are they just lonely? all difficult questions to think about.

coming back to the drama, it is going to be interesting to see why viaan would give such a proposal to katha. he was so mad at the lady employee that he terminated her employment immediately. he was affronted, angry and fuming. you can also tell that he felt rather unsafe. so when he had such a reaction to this lady -- indicating he is not neccesarily looking out for fun times -- then why does he make such request to katha. we will have to wait and see how it plays out. 

Today's episode was triggering. Katha's in laws are well placed that they can help her out easily. Her SIL and BIL is more bothered about her asking for money, than being happy for their own baby coming. They should focus on their happiness on their special day

MIL looks sensible, but she is helpless and looks her voice is not heard in the house. 

FIL-Katha convo was too much triggering. How can a person be cold like this. He still holds grudges against his dead son and grandchild, who is his own blood

I found Katha so sensible, calm and composed, even in that situation how she carried herself. She was pleading for saving a life, asking him whatever hate he has for her is fine for her. And its a loan that she asked for

PS: We have so many such emotionless people in the society, thats why we get to hear so many brutal incidents like sacrificial killings and all. 

I have my own paternal aunty who married out of caste, she was considered an outcaste even after 40 years of her marriage, as long as both my grandparents were alive she was never allowed to come in. She suffered a lot in her marriage, but she had to fight all alone. 

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

so trying to organize my thoughts here -- especially when I know what is coming up ahead. I wasn't sure where to post this but decided to post it here -- in reaction to the lady making a pass at viaan.

now it may seem confusing considering the upcoming actions of viaan. also he seems to have to a good relationship with his mom. so why does he judge women this way? or is he specifically prejudiced against certain type of women -- personality or working women? viaan is going to be complex and there may not be cut and dried answer. 

lot of how we react to viaan will depend on our values, thoughts and approach to life. some of us are more conservative while others not as much. I don't want to say 'modern' because hooking up has always existed. so it seems silly to use that word to describe a no-holds physical relationship. instead, I will use the word my elders used -- 'fast lifestyle'. 

much as we like to pretend that we are all super sanskari, our society is made up of all sorts of people who can be leading very different lives than what is defined as 'sanskari'. 

much of the 'fast lifestyle' is not something that is necessarily talked about openly. however, it is not new and happened in different ways even in my parents generation. 

depending on where we are, we can have different reactions to this 'fast lifestyle'. I have heard stories from friends and colleagues who are much more open to hooking up. as I am rather conservative, some of the random anecodotes I heard really made my head spin -- 🤯😵😮 "does this actually happen in India?" 

there are plenty of people who have flings in office. these are not affairs but just flings - so no emotions or a relationship but purely a physical thing. 

in one incident, the two colleagues had a fling and we were all weirded out by the way these two acted -- with her giggles and his sheepish smiles. then, they both give out wedding invitations to other people and both their weddings are close to each other!! basically both were in long-term relationships but since it was long-distance, these two hooked up to have a fling prior to the wedding. then it was business as usual and on went the weddings. the rest of us in the team certainly gave the side eye and found both of them very strange.  there was plenty of gossip chatter. 

however, you hear of lot of such incidents in the workplace.

there are instances where both are married and have a physical fling. then when it goes south, one accuses the other of harassment. or there is a fling specifically for work advancement or other benefits. or they are just unhappy and have a fling for fun though neither want to break their marriage. 

then there are folks who are active on dating apps who are only looking to hook-up. have heard that some even use the matrimonial websites as a place to hook-up. I almost fell off my chair when I heard that there are some who go through arranged marriage model but insist on sleeping with their potential spouse first to ensure there is physical compatability. I was like "wait, what??????"  🤯😵😮

now, the clashes happen when you have different sets of values or when you start to want different things. so one of my friends has had a number of flings after her divorce. however, she does want to settle down but is not able to find someone. she does not fit the typical matrimonial website profile (as a divorcee) but she no longer wants to just have flings. one guy told her that he just wants to have a good time and is not looking for a relationship. for those who want a relationship first before progressing to marriage (especially after something like a divorce), the rules can also be difficult to figure out. 

back to our drama, if the girl had made a pass at ishaan instead of viaan, he may have thought "lets have fun". now how it would have played out may have been different. did she pick viaan because he is the boss? or was she truly interested in him? was it because she wants advancement? then, her fling is not really a fling but something that comes with terms and conditions -- something transactional. now if two people are buying and selling of their own choice, then how do we view this? is it okay to express romantic interest in the office? at what point does interest become harassment? when is it is sleazy and when is it fun/romantic? 

we live in times where there are no set rules for courtship (conservative or not-so-conservative) or relationships. sometimes people know what they want and sometimes people don't. so what is sleazy to one is not necessarily to another. however, it all becomes more complicated when emotions come to fore. someone could indicate a genuine interest but it can also be taken the wrong way as just a pass. people can be judged and seen as emotionless, characterless etc etc, even when they may be looking for a genuine relationship as well. some people have the wrong impression that people of a certain class or personality are more sanskari than other.  

I sound like a jumble and in some ways, I am. I guess what I am trying to say is that how we react to the scenarios in this drama will also depend on where we are. there won't be clear answers -- there are going to be sparks in this forum! 

I am confused a bit with Viaan and his response to women around him. He is cordial and loving to his mother. He is impressed by Katha. Yet he holds an opinion that women are for money and not trustworthy.

We need to get a clear picture about his BG story, hopefully it will be clarified later. 

Viaan looked uncomfortable with the lady employee asking for 1 to 1 interaction. And his response was surprising to me. That prompted me to think about Sexual Harassment at Workplace, thats happening with men also. There might be men out there who feel uncomfortable with their lady bosses (I know personally one case in my office), yet they have to compromise; isn't it?

Flings and convenient relations are very common nowadays, and its not only in cities, but in small towns even. I have a senior colleague who tried to take me out for tea every other day, later I realised that he was trying to flirt with me. This happened with me and my husband working in the same office. Later I stopped taking tea break in office and now I don't drink tea even at home. Thanks to him, now I don't feel like taking tea and that helps me to reduce my calories (I am trying to look at the positive side)🤣🤣

Coming to story, people make their opinions based on their experiences and their value systems. And this male dominated society has always looked upon the women, that too working women with a magnifying glass so that they can create pictures as per their prejudices and convenience

Till now, show looks interesting. I am looking forward to the circumstances how Viaan ends up offering the deal to Katha. I would never judge Katha for accepting his deal, as I understand that she values her son's life more than anything in the world.

PS: Even if I were in Katha's place, I would have accepted the deal, If that deal will save my son's life. Because nothing is above my child's life, not even my dignity or image in society. I am sorry if I offended anyone.

letha -- rather than katha, it is viaan who viewers might struggle to get behind as a ML. people will able to understand that this is a very difficult choice for katha as she isn't a fast type of person. however, she is making that choice for her son's life. what might be hard to understand is viaan. there are lot of clashing parts to his personality -- he loves his mom, gets upset at the employee lady but thinks rather low of women and relationships in general. so lot will depend on the actor's ability to humanize the character to show different facets so that people see a whole person to viaan. he is not going to be the typical ML that we are used to in any form. 

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

letha -- rather than katha, it is viaan who viewers might struggle to get behind as a ML. people will able to understand that this is a very difficult choice for katha as she isn't a fast type of person. however, she is making that choice for her son's life. what might be hard to understand is viaan. there are lot of clashing parts to his personality -- he loves his mom, gets upset at the employee lady but thinks rather low of women and relationships in general. so lot will depend on the actor's ability to humanize the character to show different facets so that people see a whole person to viaan. he is not going to be the typical ML that we are used to in any form. 

Strictly my opinions and don't need to offend anyone would it not sound similar to Cast couching because in all fast lifestyle consent is there mutually but here Katha is not willingly commiting to it but it's her only last road 

Originally posted by: Sneha2002

Strictly my opinions and don't need to offend anyone would it not sound similar to Cast couching because in all fast lifestyle consent is there mutually but here Katha is not willingly commiting to it but it's her only last road 

so in the turkish version, the ML offered it as fast lifestyle consent and from his mind, it is mutual but with FL, it is a difficult choice but a choice nonetheless. thats why it gets into this murky grey area because she actively makes that choice though she later feels very conflicted about it. he only finds out later why she accepted his deal and is horrified. 

we will have to wait and see which direction the drama goes. if they make it seem like katha was not willing to commit to it, then it makes look viaan very sleezy. that would be difficult to write as a romance and ML will alienate the audience. 

however, if they show katha makes the difficult choice but she owns the decision she makes, then it moves into a different territory altogether. you can write a romance but it can also make katha seem questionable because she has not made the typical sanskari reaction.

For any new fiction serial its concept, characters, story, casting, promos, campaigns that create curiosity at one side, and if it has popular actors/stars then fans & media hype it more, prompting general audience to give it a try.

This KA is quite an urbane setup serial not based on regular cringe concepts, if handled well without digressing this story has good potential, and Sony also has better distribution network mostly in urban regions, but in recent years their regular dramas have mostly been finite series.😳 So lets see how urban audience receives it, as 8.30pm is currently most competitive time slot for hindi GECs & how well Sony promotes it regularly.

Originally posted by: mango.falooda

so trying to organize my thoughts here -- especially when I know what is coming up ahead. I wasn't sure where to post this but decided to post it here -- in reaction to the lady making a pass at viaan.

now it may seem confusing considering the upcoming actions of viaan. also he seems to have to a good relationship with his mom. so why does he judge women this way? or is he specifically prejudiced against certain type of women -- personality or working women? viaan is going to be complex and there may not be cut and dried answer. 

lot of how we react to viaan will depend on our values, thoughts and approach to life. some of us are more conservative while others not as much. I don't want to say 'modern' because hooking up has always existed. so it seems silly to use that word to describe a no-holds physical relationship. instead, I will use the word my elders used -- 'fast lifestyle'. 

much as we like to pretend that we are all super sanskari, our society is made up of all sorts of people who can be leading very different lives than what is defined as 'sanskari'. 

much of the 'fast lifestyle' is not something that is necessarily talked about openly. however, it is not new and happened in different ways even in my parents generation. 

depending on where we are, we can have different reactions to this 'fast lifestyle'. I have heard stories from friends and colleagues who are much more open to hooking up. as I am rather conservative, some of the random anecodotes I heard really made my head spin -- 🤯😵😮 "does this actually happen in India?" 

there are plenty of people who have flings in office. these are not affairs but just flings - so no emotions or a relationship but purely a physical thing. 

in one incident, the two colleagues had a fling and we were all weirded out by the way these two acted -- with her giggles and his sheepish smiles. then, they both give out wedding invitations to other people and both their weddings are close to each other!! basically both were in long-term relationships but since it was long-distance, these two hooked up to have a fling prior to the wedding. then it was business as usual and on went the weddings. the rest of us in the team certainly gave the side eye and found both of them very strange.  there was plenty of gossip chatter. 

however, you hear of lot of such incidents in the workplace.

there are instances where both are married and have a physical fling. then when it goes south, one accuses the other of harassment. or there is a fling specifically for work advancement or other benefits. or they are just unhappy and have a fling for fun though neither want to break their marriage. 

then there are folks who are active on dating apps who are only looking to hook-up. have heard that some even use the matrimonial websites as a place to hook-up. I almost fell off my chair when I heard that there are some who go through arranged marriage model but insist on sleeping with their potential spouse first to ensure there is physical compatability. I was like "wait, what??????"  🤯😵😮

now, the clashes happen when you have different sets of values or when you start to want different things. so one of my friends has had a number of flings after her divorce. however, she does want to settle down but is not able to find someone. she does not fit the typical matrimonial website profile (as a divorcee) but she no longer wants to just have flings. one guy told her that he just wants to have a good time and is not looking for a relationship. for those who want a relationship first before progressing to marriage (especially after something like a divorce), the rules can also be difficult to figure out. 

back to our drama, if the girl had made a pass at ishaan instead of viaan, he may have thought "lets have fun". now how it would have played out may have been different. did she pick viaan because he is the boss? or was she truly interested in him? was it because she wants advancement? then, her fling is not really a fling but something that comes with terms and conditions -- something transactional. now if two people are buying and selling of their own choice, then how do we view this? is it okay to express romantic interest in the office? at what point does interest become harassment? when is it is sleazy and when is it fun/romantic? 

we live in times where there are no set rules for courtship (conservative or not-so-conservative) or relationships. sometimes people know what they want and sometimes people don't. so what is sleazy to one is not necessarily to another. however, it all becomes more complicated when emotions come to fore. someone could indicate a genuine interest but it can also be taken the wrong way as just a pass. people can be judged and seen as emotionless, characterless etc etc, even when they may be looking for a genuine relationship as well. some people have the wrong impression that people of a certain class or personality are more sanskari than other.  

I sound like a jumble and in some ways, I am. I guess what I am trying to say is that how we react to the scenarios in this drama will also depend on where we are. there won't be clear answers -- there are going to be sparks in this forum! 

Mango ji, I am a little confused with this essay😃, but I am guessing you are speaking about the woman in the office coming on to Viaan? 

This is pretty black and white to me. Zero tolerance is what me and my institution follow with regards to sexual harassment at the work place. Now what constitutes sexual harassment? When the second party feels threatened, uncomfortable that the first party is seeking/offering sexual favors, it constitutes sexual harassment in most work places in this country. It goes on to the extent that if there is a third person watching any such exchange ( even if it is between consenting adults ) is uncomfortable, then it becomes inappropriate conduct which can be reported🤓

Especially, for places like mine, where we work with students and other ancillary staff, and there is a power differential, it is extremely important to lay down the rules in stone I serve on a committee which interprets these instances and applies policies when complaints come. There are instances where decisions were made to remove the intended victims from direct supervision from the possible perpetrators, if the harassment is borderline. But perpetrators are all pulled up for explanation, investigation, warning, remediation or termination👍🏼 I am forever indebted for this system where all employees and learners have a right to work and study without fear of personal safety or retaliation❤️

That woman is sexually harassing Viaan. It doesn't matter whether she is looking for a fling, or seeking favors in exchange or true love. If Viaan is uncomfortable, there ends the debate. Since he is the boss, he is the ultimate decision maker. 

The flirting by the friend is also a NO-NO. What if the flirtation happens with Katha or her friend, who won't be able to speak up to him, because, well he is the boss's friend or partner? However innocent it may be, it is simply not right. I know India is not there yet, but I hope we all reach there. There are so many women ( maybe some men too ) who have to swallow this day in and day out because they have no other recourse. 

I still remember my high school days, we were mere 11-15 yr olds, one of our class mates physically developed rather young. The sleazy male teachers would stand next to her and harass her while teaching🤬 The poor girl couldn't even sit comfortably, she couldn't complain to anyone, as you know "nothing happened". We were all uncomfortable watching it, but still couldn't do or didn't know what to do then. I still remember her sitting shriveled up, hunched over, so she becomes inconspicuous.🤬That was horrible. We all were subject to this kind of harassment somewhere along off and on before we passed out of high school, but nothing like this girl went through. I am hoping that things have changed now, and parents are more aware of this and are educating their children about these sleaze balls😭

I don't know if your above post is about this? I am reserving any opinions about Katha-Viaan as of now till we see what actually happens. 

mili -- if I sound already confused, just wait for the twist that happens later in this drama which forms the crux of the story. then you will be wondering how to respond. this drama is all about the greys. the essay was just a reaction to what is coming ahead vs how he reacted to the lady in the office. 

so what I was trying to share was the Indian perspective. we like to think that we are all very sanskari but what is happening on the ground is a lot more complex. those who live between the sanskari and the fast lifestyle in terms of values themselves can have very complex reactions which can seem very contradictory. 

so on one hand, they may be okay with having a fling but on the other, they are affronted when someone makes the same proposal to them -- that is viaan. if we keep aside the harassment bit, that is in essense the contradiction. 

ishaan who is perpetually positive initially didn't think it was so serious and he even tries to downplay it. ishaan actually calls it as perhaps an overreaction compounded by the death anniversary -- that is how he talks to the HR manager. that may seem strange unless you have worked here. 

I understand where you are coming from in terms of policies in the workplace but here, the interpretation of those policies plays out differently. so as long as they didn't break into your physical space, someone expressing interest once will be seen as a pass. if you are not interested, you can turn them down but it generally won't go up the HR chain. 

however, repeated incidents (more than twice) when you have already said no would be termed harassment. breaking into someone's physical space the first time would be termed harassment. those would be HR matters. so there is a lot more grey in how these policies are interpreted here. 

this is why ishaan said something like -- "I don't know what happened exactly but viaan is also upset about the death anniversary. it seems like an overreaction but what is done is done. he wants her fired..."

now I will not disagree with you that it was harassment but will add some points to it besides viaan being uncomfortable. the lady broke into his physical space in some sense by undoing her button of her blouse and making suggestive poses. viaan also said several times that he would only attend group meetings. so it was repeated request against his will and thus making him uncomfortable. 

now, if she had only asked him out for a '1 on 1' verbally with no physical overtures and dropping it when he said 'no' the first time, then it would be as ishaan thought -- just a pass. that is why ishaan initially reacted rather cool. 

another complication is how there is a different interpretation (or misinterpretation depending on your perspective) of the word 'harassment' by some. part of it has to do with a law that is no longer in rule but used to be years ago. even though there have been judgements that consensual physical relations don't have to end in marriage, there are still cases where women (especially) will file case of harassment against the man if he backs out of marrying her. so the consensual physical relations in those cases are termed as 'harassment' by women because 'he used her for fun'. this also happens in HR offices and then they have to sort it out and say it can't be harassment if it was a mutual fling/affair. so some people also factor intent in how they define harassment. 

again, you will see this point arise when this drama comes to that twist and crux of the story -- if two people consensually indulge in a one night stand, is it harassment as it is not sanskari type outcome? (an actual emotional relationship or marriage) is it harassment if you are more sanskari but felt a bit dragged into one night stand? or if the one night stand occured for reasons like financial gain? or is it a choice you are making and adults need to own their choices? 

even when I watched this dizi years ago, I felt that this theme works in a turkish dizi because Turkye is between worlds. similarly, we have that kind of culture. this is essentially a story that is between sanskari and fast lifestyle. we are definitely going to be go over these dynamics and debate when viaan makes his move. so thats why I said there will be sparks because people are going to have different reactions based on wherever they are. hope that makes more sense.