Adnan Sami on Kangana Controversy - Page 6

Originally posted by: malikakas

I never said struggling with gender identity is not real. But it’s not a basic need like trying to obtain food clothing and security. If you are struggling for basic necessities you are not going to be worrying about whether someone calls you by the right pronoun.

@bold: Where have trans been beggars in the western world to which JK Rowling was referring to? If you are talking about hijras in India that’s a completely different discussion. Trans refers to people whose gender identity differs from the gender they were assigned at birth. No one would have killed a trans person in utero purely for existing because it’s something that comes to light later after a person develops a sense of self to understand whether they conform to a binary gender identity or not. That only happens after you have your basic needs met. 

The problem is that you're reducing gender identity struggles to just 'referring to you by the right pronouns'. That's not what it is. Being forced to hide your true identity gives rise to mental health problems which can lead to suicide. It's a 'basic need' by all means. 

No, I'm not talking about hijras. Trans people have been killed purely for existing too, maybe not in uterus but they have and still are. That doesn't change the fact that they have worse lives than women after being born.

Yes, nobody killed a transwoman in the uterus. But after being born, her life was HELL compared to cis women who nobody considered as 'freaks'. Great difference, that. *eyeroll*

Trans have been 'homeless beggars' in terms of treatment meted out to them. The 'servants and beggars' term was a metaphor. To make you understand that transpeople's status were always much worse than women. If women were servants, trans were beggars. That's the comparison. 

Really justifiable argument being made here.

Let a group, FIFTY PERCENT OF HUMANITY, which has been:

considered inferior from the conception of civilization, 

has been enslaved, 

raped, 

considered property,

sold,

not allowed to hold jobs,

legally allowed to be beaten,

not allowed rights over their own progeny,

aborted when abortions became safer

THIS group is now considered privileged enough, so they are being asked to give up on their SAFETY AND SECURITY to accommodate the (justifiable) needs of a small minority.

Mind you, this minority, WHILE NOT BEING ASKED TO HIDE THEIR TRUE IDENTITY NOW, still would NOT have been, UNDER THEIR MALE IDENTITIES:

considered inferior from the conception of civilization, 

enslaved, 

raped, 

considered property,

sold,

not allowed to hold jobs,

legally allowed to be beaten,

not allowed rights over their own progeny,

aborted when abortions became safer

When the world goes to a place where abused women fear to leave the abusive situations, when they die, will it make the wokeratti happy?

When female prisoners get raped, will it be okay for the SJWs?

Or let's go to minor issues. When women's sports leave no chance for biological women, will that be ok with the new gen? Or when scholarships meant for women become lost to them?

Do the SJWs think this won't affect any of them? Maybe they simply don't understand or are ignorant of what it was like to live in a society where odds were stacked against you.

Fun fact: in Khomeini's Iran, they used call it marriage between a HUMAN and a WOMAN.

Kind of reminds me of birthing persons and menstruating people.

Stripping women of their very identities and calling it progress! Up is down, black is white, wrong is right. Congratulations! We now live in an Orwellian world. 

But to say it would be hate speech.

And this is how the hate speech business works. Quell all legitimate argument so the perpetrators of an absolute injustice (the wokeratti) get to present said injustice as justice.

If they really wanted to solve the problem, they'd look for solutions which didn't demand sacrifice of basic needs from women. But they don't. All they're trying to do is work out some childish anger by tearing down people they deem as privileged (women!). And of course virtue signal!

Wow so much truth 👍🏼

Originally posted by: Mahisa_22

The problem is that you're reducing gender identity struggles to just 'referring to you by the right pronouns'. That's not what it is. Being forced to hide your true identity gives rise to mental health problems which can lead to suicide. It's a 'basic need' by all means. 

No, I'm not talking about hijras. Trans people have been killed purely for existing too, maybe not in uterus but they have and still are. That doesn't change the fact that they have worse lives than women after being born.

Yes, nobody killed a transwoman in the uterus. But after being born, her life was HELL compared to cis women who nobody considered as 'freaks'. Great difference, that. *eyeroll*

Trans have been 'homeless beggars' in terms of treatment meted out to them. The 'servants and beggars' term was a metaphor. To make you understand that transpeople's status were always much worse than women. If women were servants, trans were beggars. That's the comparison. 

Sorry I didn't have a chance to respond to this earlier in the week. 

For your first paragraph, I think that's a misconception. That's why I brought up Maslow's hierarchy of needs which you can look up in any psychology textbook. Mental health issues, while important, are not basic necessities to survive. Most of us live in relatively stable societies so we can prioritize mental health issues  which is a great thing. But we need to have stable access to food, shelter and security first. If you don't have food to eat you might die of starvation or commit suicide because you don't have food to eat. Not being able to live a fully actualized version of yourself ceases to be a primary concern. 

Let's look at Afghanistan as an example since they have recently been plunged into chaos. There are many news stories about how young female children are being 'sold' to men in their 50s so that their parents can support themselves and other children. www.cnn.com/2021/11/01/asia/afghanistan-child-marriage-crisis-taliban-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

Now imagine the little girl in this story has a brother who may have wished to explore feminine tendencies had he lived in a different country. He obviously would have to hide that now. But do you think both kids would think that a boy who would have wished to transition has it worse than the girl sold off into sexual slavery? Even if he has to hide his (or her) true self there are advantages of being associated with the male gender in that scenario because the focus is on basic survival. Whereas there is literally nothing the little girl could do to protect herself. And this is a common in war-torn countries where women are often the first victims, just by virtue of being female. 

He has a point but then again if she has the freedom to say these things, then others have the freedom to call her out on it too...

I always find it so funny/ironic when people say it's their freedom of speech/expression to say potentially offensive things, but at the same time want to block out any criticism of the same. 

Like ???? What about other people's freedom?? 🤓

Originally posted by: malikakas

Sorry I didn't have a chance to respond to this earlier in the week. 

For your first paragraph, I think that's a misconception. That's why I brought up Maslow's hierarchy of needs which you can look up in any psychology textbook. Mental health issues, while important, are not basic necessities to survive. Most of us live in relatively stable societies so we can prioritize mental health issues  which is a great thing. But we need to have stable access to food, shelter and security first. If you don't have food to eat you might die of starvation or commit suicide because you don't have food to eat. Not being able to live a fully actualized version of yourself ceases to be a primary concern. 

Let's look at Afghanistan as an example since they have recently been plunged into chaos. There are many news stories about how young female children are being 'sold' to men in their 50s so that their parents can support themselves and other children. www.cnn.com/2021/11/01/asia/afghanistan-child-marriage-crisis-taliban-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

Now imagine the little girl in this story has a brother who may have wished to explore feminine tendencies had he lived in a different country. He obviously would have to hide that now. But do you think both kids would think that a boy who would have wished to transition has it worse than the girl sold off into sexual slavery? Even if he has to hide his (or her) true self there are advantages of being associated with the male gender in that scenario because the focus is on basic survival. Whereas there is literally nothing the little girl could do to protect herself. And this is a common in war-torn countries where women are often the first victims, just by virtue of being female. 

Regarding your first paragraph, so we should consider visit women more disadvantaged only because a small percentage of them are killed in the womb? We should not take into consideration the lives of the women already born vs. transwomen? Talking about primary needs, i.e. food and shelter, that's the same for both cis and transwomen. Nobody would deny food or shelter to a woman because she's a woman, right? 

Regarding Afghanistan, do read up on the lives of LGBTQIA people after the Taliban came to power. They were thrown off highrise buildings and killed en masse. Many trans and gay people were raped. 

Originally posted by: Mahisa_22

Regarding your first paragraph, so we should consider visit women more disadvantaged only because a small percentage of them are killed in the womb? We should not take into consideration the lives of the women already born vs. transwomen? Talking about primary needs, i.e. food and shelter, that's the same for both cis and transwomen. Nobody would deny food or shelter to a woman because she's a woman, right? 

Regarding Afghanistan, do read up on the lives of LGBTQIA people after the Taliban came to power. They were thrown off highrise buildings and killed en masse. Many trans and gay people were raped. 

For your first question, take a moment and think about it yourself. If you are not allowed life purely on the basis of your gender can there be any worse form of discrimination? And if the worse thing is happening to female children how is it reasonable to purport that the discrimination trans women face is considerably worse? Also I wouldn't say its a small number. There are a few studies from a few decades ago that report over 100 million missing women due to infanticide (which is probably greater than the global trans population currently). This number doesn't include any other form of discrimination. The story that I brought up earlier about the abortion of the female child, do you think that child's sister would not face discrimination for being a girl in that family just because she was allowed to live? It speaks to the general devaluation of women that is pervasive. 

For sure, food and security is a primary need for all humans both cis and trans. But historically, the ability to access that food and security has varied according to the gender you were associated with at birth. If you are considered property and legally do not have equal right, then you cannot own property or be gainfully employed. Basically there is no way for you to access food and security except at the whims of your "masters". Maybe some masters were nicer than others but in essence you have no other way to survive. You can see that even if you read something like pride and prejudice. The sisters in that story would have ended up ended up destitute if they didn't find someone to marry. However a person born as a male in that kind of society would not have had that concern. Maybe they couldn't live a fully actualized version of themselves but that's not the same as not having the right to access stable food and shelter. 

I have read about the LGBTQIA community in Afghanistan. And it is absolutely tragic. But similar things ALSO happen to women just for being women. www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20211106-four-women-slain-in-afghanistan-after-phone-call-to-join-evacuation-flight 

However, that's why in my previous post I discussed how a person born as a boy could potentially suppress their identity and gain the advantage of male privilege. There is literally nothing a person born as a girl could do to prevent themselves from being victimized.