Ques on MahaBhrarta. Peep in/ DT Nt pg 25 - Page 5

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ltelidevara

@ltelidevara

IF-Sizzlerz

+ 8

Posted: 6 years ago

All through the Geeta, Krishna the Yogeshvara is represented as the Self or Atman in each of us. This Atman or vital core within, is where the entire drama of the events of each life takes place. It is possible for each of us to invoke the Lord within us. Arjuna represents the average human being, the ordinary mortal, with his weaknesses, temptations and fears. When he throws down his bow in dejection, he is confused, and at a total loss not knowing what to do. By the end of the discourse, he stands up, recovered from his delusion, ready with bow in hand to do his duty.

Putting the two together, Krishna the Yogeshvara and Arjuna the Dhanurdhara, the symbolic picture is complete. Man alone without spiritual guidance and understanding is insufficient and inadequate. By invoking the Spirit within, with that Divine guidance, he is ready to face all odds and fight the battle of life. And then nothing can stop him, from achieving anything and every thing.

Despite being a Siva devotee I strongly rely on Geeta which I feel is a boon offered to mankind through Arjuna by the lord ...It certainly helped me learn so many things spiritual that can help in the journey of life Spiritual guidance is needed for any one to move ahead with a sense of confidence.

I feel the guru definitely helps us ..and by saying so I am not restricting the guru Sabda only to person but it can also be of a treatise,that will influence us to a great extent. We have rich treasure of scriptures to fall back and chose our guiding light from them.

Like Adi Sankara said in Gurupaduka stotram guru will offer his hand to pull us out of our complexities both spiritual and physical. To reach the state where we stand on a transcendental plane and worship god ..vast learning and belief is needed.

Gita isa treasure that I cherish and always refer in times of confusion.

Nice reading all the posts very well analysed..

Lakshmi

Edited by ltelidevara - 6 years ago

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paartha

@paartha

Senior Member

Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: mnx12

Am amazed at this level of understanding, which was seen 4-5 years back in this forum. Am glad to see to once again. 😊
You are right. Answer is based on Trika Philosophy, Shree Vidya, The Shiv Sutras.
It can be a Self Sustaining motion technically giving various powers, Entities, to retain balance in the creation. Destruction is the beginning of new creation.
This entire debate is based on various perspectives of process involved in creating balance at the end of Dwapar Yuga.
Individual soul's realisation of- "Aham Brhmasmi", has been going on since a very long time. Which is called-"Khand Mahayoga", where a Guru helps in reaching this stage. Realised souls, lives till all their Karmas are exhausted finally merging in Brhman at the end of their life span.
There is an amazing concept of-"Akhand Mahayoga", where Mahaguru is working towards liberating the entire living creation. End of this process can be visualised as, all the souls, getting elevated to the highest level, merging in Brhaman.
Pralaya, indicates end of entire creation, with all souls at different level. But Akhand Mayhayoga, aims at liberating all the souls. Known example of such Mahaguru is Maharshi Arvind or Aurobindo & some more, who were working towards Divine Mother's descent to elevate all the souls. Some of them are not with us. Others are working towards this goal, which is a huge task.
A Guru is needed in the path of Spirituality, who should be a Realised soul himself/herself.
Lord Krishna was Guru, who guided all at differet levels. Those who saw him as, Saguna Brhman eg, Bhishma, Arjun got duely rewarded depending on their karma.

Thank you for your kind words and for sharing the knowledge in clearing my doubt. I have never heard earlier about these concepts of 'Khand Mahayoga' and 'Akhand Mahayoga', very interesting concepts.

As I understand as per your answer, once we all are in a state of 'Akhand Mahayoga', then all entities are said to be realized souls. This may be equated to 'Nirghun Brahman' state as per your earlier answer.

One question I have in this context, when we go back to the state of (Nirghun Brahman) which was the original state during this entire process of creation, will there be any chance of again, 'Saguna Brahman' and elements (greed/fear/anger and so on) arising and the motion of life and cycle again perpetuating through the cycle of Karma? Sorry, for bothering with barrage of questions, but wanted to clear, if this will be the case? I have this question because, Lord Krishna in the Gita states that there will never be any time in future, where me nor you (Arjun/mere mortal) will not be there. So, is Lord Krishna indicating in this context, of everyone being in 'Nirghun Brahmin' state OR will we be going through the endless cycle of life and birth.

I'm thankful to all the discussions here and loved them.

Thank you.

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mnx12

@mnx12

Channel Moderator

+ 9

Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: paartha

Thank you for your kind words and for sharing the knowledge in clearing my doubt. I have never heard earlier about these concepts of 'Khand Mahayoga' and 'Akhand Mahayoga', very interesting concepts.

As I understand as per your answer, once we all are in a state of 'Akhand Mahayoga', then all entities are said to be realized souls. This may be equated to 'Nirghun Brahman' state as per your earlier answer.

One question I have in this context, when we go back to the state of (Nirghun Brahman) which was the original state during this entire process of creation, will there be any chance of again, 'Saguna Brahman' and elements (greed/fear/anger and so on) arising and the motion of life and cycle again perpetuating through the cycle of Karma? Sorry, for bothering with barrage of questions, but wanted to clear, if this will be the case? I have this question because, Lord Krishna in the Gita states that there will never be any time in future, where me nor you (Arjun/mere mortal) will not be there. So, is Lord Krishna indicating in this context, of everyone being in 'Nirghun Brahmin' state OR will we be going through the endless cycle of life and birth.

I'm thankful to all the discussions here and loved them.

Thank you.

Khanda Mahayoga has been going on since a long time, as the main aim of every soul is to Realise its true Self. "Aham Brhmasmi", is realised because all souls are Reflection of Brhman.

Khanda mahayoga is for one soul.

Akhand mahayoga is a process involving all the souls.
Even after Realising, or becoming-Jeevan Mukta, one has to complete their life span & go through remaining Karma. New Karma may not be created but all past Karma are to be cleared, which is done while being in Realised state.
Such soul, in his body, remains in Realised state, practicing as much as possible. In turn he enters Samadhi, quickly. Experienced bliss makes him remain in that state as long as possible. With this practice, such soul merges with Brhman, at the end of his/her life.
In the begining it was Saguna Brhman, who could create. To create, Nirguna Brhman becomes Saguna Brhman. So we are part of Saguna Brhman.
After Realising Saguna Brhman Guru helps you to Realise Nirguna Brhman. One can see their own soul & understand we are just reflection of The Nirguna Brhman. Our soul feels tempted to merge with our Original Source. This ends the cycle of rebirths.

You are most welcome. Felt happy to share, whatever I can.
Thanks. 😊

Edited by mnx12 - 6 years ago

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paartha

@paartha

Senior Member

Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: mnx12

Khanda Mahayoga has been going on since a long time, as the main aim of every soul is to Realise its true Self. "Aham Brhmasmi", is realised because all souls are Reflection of Brhman.
Khanda mahayoga is for one soul.
Akhand mahayoga is a process involving all the souls.
Even after Realising, or becoming-Jeevan Mukta, one has to complete their life span & go through remaining Karma. New Karma may not be created but all past Karma are to be cleared, which is done while being in Realised state.
Such soul, in his body, remains in Realised state, practicing as much as possible. In turn he enters Samadhi, quickly. Experienced bliss makes him remain in that state as long as possible. With this practice, such soul merges with Brhman, at the end of his/her life.
In the begining it was Saguna Brhman, who could create. To create Nirguna Brhman, becomes Saguna Brhman. So we are part of Saguna Brhman.
After Realising Saguna Brhman Guru helps you to Realise Nirguna Brhman. One can see their own soul & understand we are just reflection of The Nirguna Brhman. Our soul feels tempted to merge with our Original Source. This ends the cycle or rebirths.

You are most welcome. Felt happy to share, whatever I can.
Thanks. 😊

Thank you very much for clarifying this!

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Y12345

@Y12345

IF-Rockerz

Posted: 6 years ago

Guys, so I was re reading the part where Abhimanya dies, and that literally sent shivers to my spine. And yes, somebody pointed that everytime someone died, Lord Krishna's heart cried in agony.

That part was truly emotional, by the way, it seems a bit contradictory,that Krishna preached Arjun about BG saying that we all are souls but then even he, when abhimanyu died, his heart trembled.

When there is life, there is death.

Thoughts?

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Y12345

@Y12345

IF-Rockerz

Posted: 6 years ago

I also have a friend who studies Hinduism, and she was telling me about a question that made me reflect a lot.

The question was, did MB served its purpose?

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

IF-Addictz

+ 6

Posted: 6 years ago

There are two perspectives I adhere too. One, as KalyaniPanchali mentioned, is that as Krishna is the almighty Lord, everything that happened in the Mahabharata was predestined and in fact was driven by Him. The Pandavas were simply the medium through which he establish Dharma in a world where adharma was reigning.

The other perspective, which I especially like, is more Karma driven. The way I understand God, is that He is always there to guide us and inspire us, but He has also given us free will to make good and bad choices, and He will never interfere in the cycle of Karma. Fate and destiny certainly exist, but so does free will. Free will is simply karma, and karma and destiny are inter-linked. While we are born with a particular fate, we also have a hand in writing our own destiny through the karma we commit, whether good or bad.

When it comes to the Mahabharata, Krishna chose not to participate in the war, because it did not directly relate to him, and there was no need for him to directly fight it. The war was a dispute between two cousin groups, the Pandavas and Kauravas. It was a war between two factions of Kurus. The Yadavas may have helped, but it did not involve them. The reason Krishna fought Kamsa is that Kamsa was a cruel Yadava who took over all the other Yadavas and ruled with adharma. The matter was within the family, and thus it was Krishna's dharma, as a Yadava himself, to fight Kamsa and liberate his people.

Krishna fought others also, who were a direct threat to the Yadavas, like Jarasandha and Kalyavan, but there was no need for him to fight everyone, particularly when it did not directly relate to him. When it comes to the Kurus, he helped those who desired his help. Isn't that how God is?

God loves everyone, as we are all His children, but we also have to submit ourselves to him, completely surrender to Him, and believe in Him in order to receive His grace. If we avoid God and claim we do not need God, then why would he help us? God, in the form of Krishna, helped the Pandavas because they completely surrendered to him and believed him. They asked him for help, and thus He helped them. The Kauravas on the other hand, particularly Duryodhana, decided he needed no one's help, not even God's. He was ruled by his own ego and arrogance and felt he could win the war without any spiritual intervention. And yet, Krishna still offered Duryodhana the chance to submit to him, when he went to Hastinapura on the peace mission before war. Instead of realizing his mistakes and repenting when God gave him one final chance, he insulted God and attempted to imprison him. In doing so, Duryodhana sealed the fate on his destiny by committing adharma. He did the wrong karma, and thus he suffered the consequences of his actions.

As for everyone else in the war, it is true innocents died on both sides, but that is the consequence of war, isn't it? When a soldier agrees to fight, he fights with the awareness that he might die, and he is prepared to die for whichever side he belongs to. By agreeing to fight in a war, the soldier is committing his karma, and thus God will not intervene. Moreover, our shastras say that a soldier who dies on the battlefield attains instant salvation, so even in that sense, God would not intervene in the cycle of birth, death and rebirth.

Thus, Krishna had no responsibility to fight the war himself, because this was a war between the Pandavas and Kauravas, not the Yadavas. Moreover, as God he let people commit their karma and experience the consequences of it, whether good or bad. He helped those who submitted to Him, and those who did not eventually learned a lesson.

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Y12345

@Y12345

IF-Rockerz

Posted: 6 years ago

.RamKiJanaki.

Interesting take. Thanks for your reply.

Btw when you say that God doesnt interfere in birth/death cycle, there are instances where he did.

Lord Krishna revived the baby in Uttara womb, he did in fact interfere.

It was for a good cause, there is no doubt about it, but then again, if he could saved the baby, he could have saved the other innocents.

Aswathama is another complex case. His punishment was far from D. He is still trapped between life and death.

What do you think?

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ltelidevara

@ltelidevara

IF-Sizzlerz

+ 8

Posted: 6 years ago

Y12345

Yes God interferes in birth death cycle..in rare instances. As mentioned by you He revived Parikshit. In a way he met with the challenge thrown by Aswathama that no successor of Pandavas will remain alive. Krishna very much wanted to show that the Astra Brahmasira hurled by Aswathama with an evil intention would never serve his purpose.

So there will be exceptions where god meddles and helps. Siva graced Markandeya with complete life while actually his life span came to an end.

Lakshmi

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Daakshaayani Aadarsh

@PandavPranayini

Goldie

Posted: 6 years ago

It is beyond our reach that why Krishna revived Parikshit, because here, Parikshit's life span did not end. It is necessary for Parikshit to live on and perform his duties, thus he revived him. As for Krishna feeling pain, it's totally different. Because Arjuna is a human being (even though of a divine origin), and thus he need not to worry about the lives of the ones he kills cause they are all souls and souls cannot be destroyed. Whereas, Krishna is the God himself from whom did the souls emerge and who created them. He does not grieve in a way a human being does, but pain still burns his heart. The only difference is he ignores the pain for the greater good, and continues being the Satchidananda, while we human beings give up in front our griefs and forget our duties. Edited by PandavPranayini - 6 years ago

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