WHY WHY WHY?!?!?!??! 24 more hours - Page 4

Thanks AS for re-opening this, I had a page-long response pretty much similar to this one, but that was a 1.00AM so had a bit more emotion😉, and when I hit the POST button, the thread was closed, So after waking up a few neighbours, I felt I had my last word.

Originally posted by: Ms. Bholi Bhali

See that is what I am saying. no gov of any country, be it Saudia, France, Britian or Pakistan India, have the right  to do that. coz no religion says to force someone to do something which they don't want to do.

It does not, but what alternative's are there in Britain? Replace each and every door with a metal detector? Have a police checkpoint at every door that exists? Yeah that is going to be certain way for the majority to fall in love with the minority isnt it?

Has anyone suggested an alternative? Has anyone stepped ahead to resolve the root of the issue? What Mr Blair is doing is out of a position of weakness? Have the leaders of the Muslim world stepped ahead and yelled and screamed at the people for using the veil for destructive purpose and disrepecting the women of the religion? There is always a "BUT" at the end of the leaders while denouncing this kind of attacks.

Does it not tell you something about the leaders? Face it, the community and the leaders took a nap when it was time to do something about it, now "Everyone" is going to have to pay the price for it.

Having said that I dont feel it is a problem for Mr Blair to move ahead with this for the security of "All" his citizens.

It is humans who are making it look bad. I have studied so many religions. and not once did i find a saying, which says to force someone else do it. not Islam, not Hinduism, not Sikhism, or Jewdism or Christianity.

True

but what I found interesting what that Christianity, asks women to cover their head, and their hair should not be visible. if they can't they then better, shave their heads. it is not only Islam, which asks to cover head but other religions also do.

then why does the sword always come and hang upon the heads of Muslims?

Everyone is paying the price here. I have mentioned in my earlier posts referencing this,, You yourselves have said Sikhs,Hindu's are paying a price for it too.

Now a counter question. What have the Sikhs done to pay a price?

It is the covering of the face that is the problem I think. Upto that point the Burkha stands out seperately than the turban or a cap or a hat.

I am not sure what is the issue with the head being covered, Maybe it is something similar to what now we hear about Gels and liquids, Dont know much about it.Dont even think that is being argued, I think in UK all they are talking about the veil.

I know this is borderline on PC, moderators feel free to edit out whatever you feel is out of bounds here. I just feel we as adults should be able to able to have a discussion about topics such as this without a veil of PC😉

That is the final word from here😉

Hope I did not offend anyone😃

Edited by sareg - 17 years ago

So funny rather not funny!!!
Closing ,reopening ,closing the topics.

My 2 paise:

1) Humans thrive on familiarity. They always try to find similarities... between flora, fauna and even themselves. A small step in the evolution of what we now call "stereotyping".

2) It is human nature to treat differences with caution or suspicion.

The fact is that if a mini-skirted girl walks into a mall in the West, no one would care.

However, if the same girl walks into a mall in a more conservative society, she'll be deemed a slut or a woman of loose morals.

In reality, most humans are ignorant of many things.

They may be literate, but they are still ignorant of the difference between the turban of a Sikh and the turban of an Afghani.

They still have to understand the difference between an American and a Canadian.

Between the holy Swastika and its corrupt Nazi version.

Between a terrorist and a civilian.

It is a fact and it cannot change unless we reach utopia. This is why we follow an old, beaten up saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

Originally posted by: T.

My 2 paise:

1) Humans thrive on familiarity. They always try to find similarities... between flora, fauna and even themselves. A small step in the evolution of what we now call "stereotyping".

2) It is human nature to treat differences with caution or suspicion.

The fact is that if a mini-skirted girl walks into a mall in the West, no one would care.

However, if the same girl walks into a mall in a more conservative society, she'll be deemed a slut or a woman of loose morals.

In reality, most humans are ignorant of many things.

They may be literate, but they are still ignorant of the difference between the turban of a Sikh and the turban of an Afghani.

They still have to understand the difference between an American and a Canadian.

Between the holy Swastika and its corrupt Nazi version.

Between a terrorist and a civilian.

It is a fact and it cannot change unless we reach utopia. This is why we follow an old, beaten up saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I cannot agree any less. Very well put by Tanaz!

And on the issue, I partly agree with saba, wearing a Burka shouldnt matter. In Singapore, muslim girls in school arent allowed to wear their burka. They have to attend a muslim school if they want to. The government feels it might create some social tension. But Sikhs are allowed to wear their turben. This is absolutely absurd. But it is how it is here.

I agree with Saba, it doesnt matter if one wears a burka. That doesnt denote one as a terrorist. A terrorist can come wearing any kind of clothes. Moreover, one has the total freedom to wear whatever he or she wants. There shouldnt be any form of objection unless her clothes would cause a problem.

All these being said, there is a statement made by Saba is the midst of the debate i disagree with. Well, i support what Kabhi_21 said about Muslims not having equal rights for men and women. I wanted to respond but the topic was closed. I take the oppertunity now.

We can examine it is many aspects.. Most Islamic countries dont allow Women to vote. Their legislation clearly denies women of the chance to vote! How is this fair?How is this equal? Be it education/work or any aspects many muslim countries do not allow women to succeed! They are still stuck with the notion that women should stick to the kitchen and take care of kids. The laws to protect women in cases such as rape/abuse are soo minimal or even absent that women in descriminated.

[quote=Sneha3105]Most Islamic countries dont allow Women to vote. Their legislation clearly denies women of the chance to vote[/quote]

With due respect, i wish to know the names of those countries.

PS: I didn't reply as Dr.Uncle said in his post to refrain from posting.. 😕 Its ok .. but...... 😕

I had decided to not add anything to this thread because such debates give futile results instead make our DM environment unpleasant. But I would post my POV, if it matters.

I believe that when a Muslim woman is conservative in her attire and humble in her appearance and wears her head scarf elegantly, she honors her Islamic identity. She doesn't need to follow unnecessary rules imposed by men which are not even in their holy book. Muslim women should first voice their opinion against such atrocious rules. Now coming back to the main issue I concur with many here that everyone should be allowed to wear what they want. It is illogical if people are forced to change their views and religious preferences according to the country they are in. So I definitely find offense in this new regulation against 'Hijab'.

 

I edited some part of my post because some of the points I raised swayed from the actual topic and can be debated at more liberal times. 😉

 

We live in a world where double standards exist. We either learn to live with it or voice our opinion. We tend to differ only if it hurts us personally otherwise we remain a spectator.

Edited by Maya_M - 17 years ago

when you change your country, you are bound to leave some of you behind. Yes you are known by your identity, but every nation cannot be India which makes different rules to accomodate all religions. If a nation wants to follow a particular method in school, why cry. if you choose to live in that country then abide by rules. They are following same rules for other religions too..so?

If I donot wear sari, am I a less Hindu??? Attire does not make a religion. It is a human who makes rules and foul cry when he/she fell flat when others donot abide by it.
I do want to write more but got to go. So will come back and post if i see the topic open as I yet have to go through all pages too.

Originally posted by: MNMS

[quote=Sneha3105]Most Islamic countries dont allow Women to vote. Their legislation clearly denies women of the chance to vote[/quote]

With due respect, i wish to know the names of those countries.

Most countries now allow the women to vote and the only exception is Kuwait. Then there are countries like Saudi Aabia where both men and women are not allowed to vote.

Correction: Kuwaiti women were granted full political rights in a historic vote in parliament only in May 2005. Kuwaiti women will be able to vote in the general election scheduled for 2007.

Edited by Maya_M - 17 years ago

THANKS DR. ABHI, if you reading this 😆! 
I appreciate this one opportunity to post a response.

Originally posted by: Ms. Bholi Bhali

Ok, I closed this topic but reopening it to post something, which I wanted to post yesterday, but thought that I might not convey it properly.


Many think that Burqa is the reason of destruction of the world. I disagree! For a terrorist, burqa is just one of the disguise to spread destruction. They can use any type of get up to do so. They can wear Sikh Turban and Beard, Christian Father's robe, Nun's dress, Hindu Pandit's kameez Dhoti, or even come dress up as a Monk, or in a form of world most powerful country's president. When they can come in so many other ways, then why only point out the burqa????

I don't think the school authorities were suspicious about the girls' being terrorists.  They want to create a more uniform environment.  That's it.

Burqa is a dress of a Muslim woman. It is her Izzat and her identity. If she wants to keep that identity, then no one has the right to tell her, not to!!! She has all the rights to wear it or not. It is between her and her God. No one has the right to order her to take it off!!! If someone misuse the "burqa" then it is not her fault, it is the fault of that government that they can't differentiate between the good and the evil.

There always is the place of ORIGIN, where one can attain all the respect.  Every land has it's own rules.  If one cannot abide by them, that doesnt mean the land should be forced to make amendments.  Just as wearing Burqa is her izzat for a Muslim Girl, and I respect that.. the authorities have a right to believe that UNIFORMITY is essential to keep a certain social cohesiveness within the school community.  It is bewteen their God, their brain and their feelings. 

Another point, hum kaab tak apnye aap ko "minority" bana kar rakhye gaye??? We are humans first, then comes our religion and then the nation we belong too. When God has made us human first, and have made all human equal, then where did the question come from, of minority and majority? Agar hum khudh ko hi minority bana kar rakhye gaye tu how will be become the majority??? And mind u, being in the majority is not wearing same cloths as them or start acting and behaving like them. It is make ur identity, in ur own way. keep ur social, and spiritual together, don't throw one at the back seat.

You will continue to be minority, until your religion represents majority in the land  YOU CHOOSE TO dwell in!  Christians (majority of world population) remain minority in India.  There is NO SHAME / DISCRIMINATION in being a minority, unless we ourselves allow creation of bigger issues, forgetting the fact that we have left our lands of origin and found shelter in places where people of other  race / religion live. 
Ok, I will stop now, that was my actual point of starting this thread, which was lost in the middle of it, and got to a place which it shouldn't have. We as human should have a right to live as we want to live. Instead of telling 99 ppl out 100 to stop doing this, why not find that one person, who is the fasad ki jhar!!! and who is making life hell of those 99 ppl, plus the other thousands around him.

Every human should have the right to live as one wants to!  If it were so easy, rules and laws would never have to be made.  "Chor ka Dharm hai Chori.. So Allow him to do so!"  WHO draws the line and WHERE??  Who decides what is right / wrong.  These sentences look great in ink, but when applied to life, they may unfortunately have more profound consequences.
This is becaue every human being is different.   We are not CITIZENS of Mother Earth!  We should respect the authority where we CHOOSE to immigrate to and live. 
Nobody is perfect and it is unfair for many, though not all will take it to heart and make big issues.

Topic Closed again!!!

 Have a good day.  This is not personal ms. Bholi Bhali.  I have a few friends who wear a burqa and they are very well-learned and have made significant contribution to the society they live in.  I understand the HURT you all must feel, but everyone faces similar situations one way or the other.  One can take the ALTERNATIVE and begin to live peacefully. 

• It won't be practical to demand the earth to be secular. 

• Our civilizations have spent several centuries in crusades and the animosity is for here to stay, may it be right / wrong, whether we like it or not.
  

• It is US who have the right to choose where to live and what sacrifices are we willing to make in order to do so
  

mQT / Subhagya
Edited by mermaid_QT - 17 years ago