God reside within us, Prem aur Moh , unnecessary vachan - Page 2

@Ramya again I will blame devotees only for aestics having the laugh. They cant explain God in the language of aestics. Most aestics revers science. How many devotees can connect Newton's law of motion and Mahabharath. Edited by shruthiravi - 8 years ago

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@Ramya again I will blame devotees only for aestics having the laugh. They cant explain God in the language of aestics. Most aestics revers science. How many devotees can connect Newton's law of motion and Mahabharath.

Every body continues in its state of rest or continue to go in the same direction, with same speed unless acted upon by an external force.

Lord Krishna takes Arjuna away on day 13, when he should have been there when Drona created the Chakravyuh.

And that change of direction changes the course of the war. And when external force acts on you its painful. So has been day 13. Painful death of Abhimanyu. Change also looks painful in the beginning, but then we will get used to it.

 

Force required to accelerate the mass is more, when mass is more. Second law of motion. The effort needed to bring change is more, when the laws in the society are deep rooted and heavily prejudiced. Destruction required is also more. Hence the Kurushetra war. It is kind of ending the old system and establishing a new system.

 

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Third law of motion. What you sow you reap Bhagavad Gita.

 

Problem is devotees put everything on God, aethists put everything on science. But the fact is you need both. Science deals with material world, spirituality deals with inner world. For a balanced life we need both. One should not abhor other.

That's why I say Vedic times this balance was there. And it is hard to find it now.

 

And yes it is Vivekananda and APJ are two prominent people who have lead me in the path of connecting science and spirituality.

well said. Yes, the more we try to solve their questions, they create more holes in the stuff. But what to do I just can't stay quiet.😉Manufacturing defect 😆😆
off-topic: One of my atheist friends asked me why kamsa kept devaki and vasudeva in same prison cell. If they are separated they wont be possibility of his death by 8th child? I said there is no need for the presence of vasudeva, the 8th child of devaki will kill him and in those time even prayers are sufficient for child birth.
Then her nonsense reply was "this is utter nonsense, prayers cant give child. There is more to it and so u people follow the custom/tradition which has no dignity actually"
I am fed up with this kind of people who w/o knowing anything fully involve in argument just for the sake of it.
@bold: OMG, my two favourites too.
Edited by Ramyalaxmi - 8 years ago

I love your posts and your analysis, Shruti. It was a very interesting read, thank you for sharing😊

I have been asked the same question. And please Ramya don't give answers like prayers alone will give child. There is more to it than we understand. I agree with that to your aesthic front. Maybe cloning or something like that was known to Vedic Rishis. But coming to Vasudeva-Devaki question my answer was  Kamsa was going to Kill Devaki, but Vasudeva promises him that he will give every child born to Devaki to Kamsa. Edited by shruthiravi - 8 years ago

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

I have been asked the same question. And please Ramya don't give answers like prayers alone will give child. There is more to it than we understand. I agree with that to your aesthic front. Maybe cloning or something like that was known to Vedic Rishis. But coming to Vasudeva-Devaki question my answer was  Kamsa was going to Kill Devaki, but Vasudeva promises him that he will give every child born to Devaki to Kamsa.

Those days Vachans were given much importance. And Vasudeva was a man of great integrity. So Kamsa took the vachan and made them prisoners. And Vasudeva kept his promise. He gave 6 babies to Kamsa to be mercilessly killed. If you see Devaki has become a stone after seeing her husband steadfastedly sticking to his vachans.

7th baby is transferred to Rohini's womb as Vishnu requests Adiparashakthi to use her Maya and Balram born to Rohini first wife of Vasudev and it is told to Kamsa, Devaki had a miscarriage.

For the 8th baby Lord Vishnu tells them to take him to Gokul and bring Yasodha's baby girl and handover her to Kamsa. The baby girl is Adiparashakthi herself born as Vishnu Maya to protect the Lord as well as to create the illusion Vasudev have kept the word. Krishna comes with Maya for the protection of dharma. He ensures good people doesn't feel bad when they have to do adharma, so he helps them with illusion so that they don't end up with guilty conscious

 

So in any tark-vithark the basic principle you need is understand other's language. Hit them with that language. Not your language. For that you need to understand an aesthic's thought process also. 😃

@bold: right. highly possible. Rohini was the first surrogate mother.
@blue: I accept that they strict on to their words, but it is not that he lied at the 7th and 8th child birth? If I say this, I have a feeling that somewhat it shows Kamsa as one who trusted vasudeva whole-heartedly and its vasudeva who betrayed kamsa? ( though, I may be wrong)
Edited by Ramyalaxmi - 8 years ago

@Ramya this is where the interesting point comes. Did Kamsa trust Vasudev. Not enough. He made them prisoners so that even if they don't give the child he can snatch them. Edited by shruthiravi - 8 years ago

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@Ramya this is where the interesting point comes. Did Kamsa trust Vasudev. Not enough. He made them prisoners so that even if they don't give the child he can snatch them.

Second 8th child was claimed as Kamsa's murderer. So who asked him to kill the 6 babies mercilessly. Just because he had the power, just because a man gave vachan, you misuse the power. And how do you deal with a man who misuse power. Who roams around the world telling no one can beat me. A man who put his own father in the prison for power. Who doesn't value relations. Krishna used Maya with such a man. Enough is shown to us why Krishna used Maya. Because to break power which runs on fear, you need Maya. That's why Krishna was born as the 8th child for the world to see Kamsa's atrociites. For the world to pray for Devaki's 8th child to end the reign of Kamsa.

There is a question Karna asks in the Mahabharath war to Krishna. Krishna is it dharma to kill an unarmed warrior, to which Krishna replies did you think about dharma when you cut Abhimanyu's bow from behind. Arjun still hesitates to send arrow. But if you look Krishna again and again invokes Abhimanyu's name to extract the desired action from Arjun. Yes Arjuna did Adharma, but Krishna gives justification to Arjun's act through Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu is the weapon he uses to run all the adharma in Mahabharath war. To give Kauravas a taste of their own medicine. And he does take Gandhari's curse smilingly. Owning up his actions. And even at that time he protects Pandavas and Dharma. And that is God. If you take his direction, he will put up your defense.

awesome dear. But seriously why Kamsa murdered the first 6 children? I read somewhere that rishi narada only changed the mind of kamsa to do so, as he was not ready to kill first child.
@bold: My most favourite part in mahabharath. yes, krishna justified all acts after abhimanyu death, but what about bhishma? Is it not adharma initiated by pandavas in war time? Eager to know your answer. Your words make me ur fan dear.

You are right Narada changed Kamsa's mind. He told maybe with his 7 brothers 8th child will come and kill Kamsa. Devaki's other children can be the 8th sons allies. Narada's words influence Kamsa to kill the children so that there are no allies left for the 8th born. But what Narada wanted to show was the extend of Kamsa's cruelty when it comes to his power. If the 6 babies were not killed, Vasudeva would not have had any hesitation to hand over the 8th child and if Kamsa kills the 8th born Vasudev and Devaki will be happy with their other 7 children. Doesn't matter what other atrocities he commits in the world or anyone else in the family. Just like us. As long as the world burns it doesn't affect us. And even if the 8th born was allowed to live Devaki wouldn't have allowed him to kill his brother. The 6 babies death is to give Vasudev-Devaki the taste of what the world is facing due to Kamsa. So that they wont stop their 8th born from doing his duty. Don't we face it in our family. Mummy hai, papa hai, uncle hai, aunty hai, dadi hai , dada hai. How many times you have been stopped for asking questions. How many times you have been asked to forgive because it is chacha, chachi, bhaiya, bhabi etc etc..Only when their acts impact you adversely then you think what can be done. Same is the case Edited by shruthiravi - 8 years ago

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

You are right Narada changed Kamsa's mind. He told maybe with his 7 brothers 8th child will come and kill Kamsa. Devaki's other children can be the 8th sons allies. Narada's words influence Kamsa to kill the children so that there are no allies left for the 8th born. But what Narada wanted to show was the extend of Kamsa's cruelty when it comes to his power. If the 6 babies were not killed, Vasudeva would not have had any hesitation to hand over the 8th child and if Kamsa kills the 8th born Vasudev and Devaki will be happy with their other 7 children. Doesn't matter what other atrocities he commits in the world or anyone else in the family. Just like us. As long as the world burns it doesn't affect us. And even if the 8th born was allowed to live Devaki wouldn't have allowed him to kill his brother. The 6 babies death is to give Vasudev-Devaki the taste of what the world is facing due to Kamsa. So that they wont stop their 8th born from doing his duty. Don't we face it in our family. Mummy hai, papa hai, uncle hai, aunty hai, dadi hai , dada hai. How many times you have been stopped for asking questions. How many times you have been asked to forgive because it is chacha, chachi, bhaiya, bhabi etc etc..Only when their acts impact you adversely then you think what can be done. Same is the case

Now coming to Bhishma. Bhishma was a man with the boon of death by wish. Icchamrityu. So unless he wanted no one can defeat him. So as far as I know the story Pandavas does visit Bhishma in his tent on 9th day and asks his guidance how to defeat him. Bhishma himself tells them to keep Shikandi in front and fight. Because he knows Shikandi is Amba and he has to oblige her for the mistake he did to her in previous birth. So Bhishma chooses his death through the reincarnation of Amba as promised to her.  

 

You can read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhishma_Parva and this inline with the Mahabharata I have read, though Star MB showed Shikandi getting boon to be a man for one day, then lot of melodrama and all. I really didn't like it.

Nice. Thank u.
 I just come across this site
http://gosai.com/writings/the-secret-of-the-destruction-of-devaki-s-six-unborn-children

@bold: yes, Bhishma gave the clue to pandavas but from their side is it not wrong to enact?
@red: thanks for the link.
@blue: 😆  SP MB  it was good in some episodes. I thought that as an indonesian MB to have much distortions, but forum members told that even it was distorted from Indonesian MB🤣

Coming back to Ramayan, I have one more doubt, Ram send sita to forest after hearing the words of a common man. But in those times, King and queen were the ultimate god and goddess, so from that angle is it not the common man insulted the goddess?   Why he didn't give any punishment to that washerman from that angle? Why he didn't hand over the throne to his benevolent brothers and went with sita?

Yes it was. But there was no other way out. Because on 9th day lord Krishna decides to kill Bhishma and Arjuna pleads with him not to break his vachan of not using the weapon. He promises he will kill Bhishma. And to ensure he keeps that vachan Arjun has no other option but to use the way said by Bhishma. Because Icchamrityu gave no other way to defeat Bhishma. If Arjuna didn't keep the word, Krishna will break his and it doesn't look good when God breaks vachan. If you see Krishna on 9th day he is really in anger, willing to burn the entire world because he is fed up with adharma controlling dharma in the name of society, relations, vachans  etc etc... So he goes ahead to break the vachan first to end the rule of adharma. And with the vachan he extracts from Arjuna Krishna ensures the first strike on adharma with the same medicine. But in Bhishma's case unlike others a path shown by him and something he approves of. That his time has come, he has to step out. Krishna has always used zeher zeher se katha hai principle. Vachan, vachan se hi kata unhonne. You can see this in every action of Krishna. When you delve deep into his Leela's you will find this principle across.