{| Doubts and Discussions about Mahabharata - 2 |} - Page 69

Surya, what exactly does Kunti do after the Yadava fratricide and the Pandava retirement?  I didn't exactly get her role there.

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Edited by ananyacool - 9 years ago

I'm just wondering... Maharaja Dridashtan was not really proclaimed formally as the Maharaja. Maharaja Pandu had the Raj Abhishek proclaiming his as the Maharaja. If that's the case, Yudi as his 1st born should bear the Kuru surname... 

Comparing Kunti w/ Sita or Shakuntala is invalid above.  In Sita's case, she was expelled from Ayodhya - staying there didn't arise.  Shakuntala too was denied by Dushyant as a spouse.  But Kunti was in a real danger - if Draupadi could be disrobed, so could Kunti.  She was in the process of leaving for the forests w/ her sons, but Vidura talked Yudhistir out of it 😡  Quite different from the case of Sita (and  in Shakuntala's case, she did return to her father), who were asked  to leave/dropped there w/o her knowledge


Edited by .Vrish. - 9 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Surya, what exactly does Kunti do after the Yadava fratricide and the Pandava retirement?  I didn't exactly get her role there.

Originally posted by: Surya_krsnbhakt

WHen she hears that Krishna died, she dies.

Originally posted by: ananyacool

Sons of Krishnaa (Draupadi) find mentions in Agni,Vayu, Skanda,Matsya, Garuda Puranas, Shatapatha, Aitereya, Kaushitaki Brahmanas; Shinkhandi and Uttamauja is also mentioned in these brahmanas.

My point is that unlike the serials which show sons of Drau dying as bachelors is not true, neither she loses all her kin.

 

 Yudhi leaves a large empire behind and it is distributed among his grandsons including Ghatu . Just like Ram did , dividing  his kingdom among sons and nephews.

 

Pandava grandsons are joint rulers, there's no special treatment of Parikshit ; he and his cousin Paushya ( son of Sutasoma) rule Asandivat and Indraprasth.

Paushya is in the epic, there's Paushya parva

 

Epic mentions Vajra taking over Indraprasth but the puranas state that Vajra shifts to Mathura and revives it and the behest of his guru Garga

His son Vajrakhira is a staunch supporter of Janmejay.

 

There's a great grandson of Drupad who rules Panchala ; Shatanika rules west and eastern Panchala, he and his son Keshi and Krishna are said to revive Panchala and bring back its glory (Shatapatha)

 

 Keshi is sometimes called his nephew, sister's son! so Nakul and Drau had one more daughter?!

Shatanika and his sons are said to be married to Panchalis.

 

Prativindhya  descendants get Sauvira in inheritance; among them there are two grandsons  Jayanta who rules Mulasthana with sons of Samba as neighbours another is found crushing a rebellion in Videha by Kuru Dharmanetra( Yeh dushmani hum nahi bhulenge!!) and helps Kashi king Suvarnakshema/Suvarnaverma gain control over Videha. Videha kingdom ultimately passes on to Pratapa ; his lineage too is quite powerful .

Prativindhya had many wives , he has an ascetic wife, a Panchali and a Bahlika princess for wife and has many sons and grandsons ...

 

 Suvarnakshema is son of Sarvaga and father to Vapushthama, wife of Janmejay. Like any other father Suvarnakshema looks into Janmejay's resume in detail before giving his daughter in marriage😊

 

Parikshit line of Asandivat and Kakshasena ( grandson of Sutasoma)  line of Indraprastha rule for a very long time

Kaskshasena's son Abhipratrin is a very powerful king and is a younger contemporary to Janmejay

His glories are sung in all Brahmanas

 

Nakul's other children get kingdom in north western India , probably the one Naku conquers in his western Digvijaya.

 

Parikshit's wife Madravati is a Sahdev descendent ;

 

Srutasena's son is Srutasrava and there's one more son , they along with Arjun console and bring back the survivors of intoxicated madness called 'Mausala'. These sons become kulguru to their nephews

 

Srutakirti's descendents rule Kanyakubja  much info isn't available.

 

Hope this is helpful

 

The correct words in your siggy , eulogizing our Vriku bhima⭐️

 

vAya uktE-bhir jarante  tvAmachchA jaritAraH
sutasomA aharvidaH (rigveda, book 1)

 

O vayu( the ever pervading one) you are the knower of seasons and days, the singers sing your glory and offer Soma ( the celestial juice) to thee

 

 

 

Thats a lot of information you have packed in here. I agree with you that  Parikshit could  not have been the sole Pandava survivor. But I have found it  nearly  impossible to re construct the Pandava lineage though their other children- with any amount of certainty.

I will be happy if you can clear some of my doubts-

The King Paushya that you mentioned (who appears in the Paushya Parva) - what makes you say that he is a Pandava descendent?

@brown bold : Could you give me the relevant citation for this? Because I have always understood  Shatanika to be the son of Janmajeya from his wife Vapustama (from Vaisampayana's long list which he narrates to Janamajeya)


@ green bold : How is this possible? Vapustama's father was indeed Suvarnavarman - the king of Kashi, but how can he be the son of Savarga? By your reckoning, if Suvarnavarman is the son of Savarga , then Vapustama and Janamajeya would belong to the same gotra. While cousin marriages were allowed, the gotra had to be different. And even generation wise, Vapustama, if indeed she was the grand daughter of Bhima would be a whole generation older than Janamajeya

@orange  bold : I would like to know which in which Brahmana is it mentioned that Abhipratin Kakasheni is Pandava Bhima's descendant ?

@ pink bold  Source for this information, please. Prativindhya's wives.


Please do not think I am cross questioning you. I am genuinely curious.

The problem with reconciling facts from Skanda or any other purana is that once we wade out of Vyasa / Vaishampayana Mahabharata, one really does not know how much is the truth and how much fabricated. Is is possible that after the Pandavas' swargarohan, small stray dynasties would have laid claim to being a Pandava descendant, one way or another.
Edited by varaali - 9 years ago

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Edited by ananyacool - 9 years ago

I'm having some doubts regarding the Karna-Krishna conversation from Udyoga Parva! I've ready only those specific chapters, not the ones before or after it.

1. Who did ask Krishna to talk with Karna? Did he decide to do it himself or did Kunti or someone asked him to do it?

2. If he himself decided to talk with Karna, why? He wanted to punish everyone who insulted Drupadi, didn't he? And Karna's verbal atrocity was more than that of anyone in Dyuta Sabha. So what made him very caring for Karna?

3. Why did Krishna offer Draupadi to be Karna's wife if Karna was ready to be the emperor? Did Draupadi know this? Was that offer made with her consent?

No offence intended against any characters or story. Just curious to know about the truth behind!

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

I'm having some doubts regarding the Karna-Krishna conversation from Udyoga Parva! I've ready only those specific chapters, not the ones before or after it.

1. Who did ask Krishna to talk with Karna? Did he decide to do it himself or did Kunti or someone asked him to do it?

According to Ramesh Menon's MB, Krishna ran into Karna on his way back from Shanti Prastav. It does not seem to be a planned meeting

2. If he himself decided to talk with Karna, why? He wanted to punish everyone who insulted Drupadi, didn't he? And Karna's verbal atrocity was more than that of anyone in Dyuta Sabha. So what made him very caring for Karna?

Most scholars seem to interpret it as strategy to weaken Karna's resolve by enlightening him of his true circumstances. Again from RM's MB, Karna actually calls him out on this. From all that Krishna did for the Pandavas, this makes sense. And again, he calls in Ghato to make certain Karna is deprived of his most potent weapon by the time Arjun faces him. So, it makes sense to interpret it as part of Krishna's war strategy. It goes along with Krishna's resolve to destroy those who assaulted (NOT insult) Draupadi; the knowledge that Draupadi is his SIL would also add to Karna's emotional burden when he entered the war. I think Krishna's caring for Arjun and Draupadi is what prompted it, not any caring for Karna

3. Why did Krishna offer Draupadi to be Karna's wife if Karna was ready to be the emperor? Did Draupadi know this? Was that offer made with her consent?

I have asked the same question. So far I have heard several interpretations 

a) Krishna was stating what would happen as the eldest Pandava. Not certain I buy into it Because the story of Draupadi's previous janma's boon of 5 hubbies was known by then. So, how would they have justified a 6th?😕. This is the most benign explanation and the one that is kindest to Krishna
b) Krishna knew he wouldnt accept it. I dont buy that either. Then why throw Drau's name in the mix? He would already be weakened knowing the 5 are his little bros

c) Krishna knew Karna MAY accept if he sweetened the pot with Drau. Again, I dont buy it. Because, Krishna is not in a position to offer Drau, even if he is accepted as divine. At that point in her life, even her father and brother couldnt do that. And here was Krishna, offering Drau WITHOUT HER HUSBANDS' PERMISSION!😲. This is the one that doesnt fit Krishna's pattern with the ladies till date either; he was always the rescuer of damsels till then. Moreover, as you said, he was very clear that he wanted to punish, the people who assaulted Drau

d) My personal fav theory. Drau knew about it and it was conspiracy to sway Karna. Krishna would have made certain Drau had an 'out clause' like she would have to consent or something. Of course, this puts them both in a grey light, but then looking at both their actions till then, this is what is most plausible, IMO. Plus, ITS WAR, the only strategy should be how can we kill the other guy before he kills us. 

No offence intended against any characters or story. Just curious to know about the truth behind!

None taken. Hopefully, you wont take offense at my answers either😆

BTW you pic looks like Dulqar really not Sidh