Kaikeyi Ma is Mata Devaki - Page 2

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desichica thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#11

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

I've been reading this here, but I wonder what exactly is the source for this - Devaki being Kaikeyi, Yashodha being Kaushalya (and while we are at it, was Rohini Sumitra?) and Jara being Vali?

From a Karmaic standpoint, it would then seem poetic justice. Normally, I always sympathized with Devaki for having to watch her first 6 babies' heads being bashed in. But if she was Kaikeyi, that punishment was richly deserved IMO.

Also, another myth about Dasharath's wives in Tulsidas was about Kaushalya being Dasharath's favorite as a result of being Rama's mother. This is completely contradicted in Valmiki. Not only did Dasharath promise Akshavati that Kaikeyi's son would be the future ruler of Ayodhya; because of Kaikeyi's role in saving Dasharath when he was at war with the Rakshashas (was this Ravan's army, by any chance?), she became his favorite. However, she did love Rama more than Bharat, but she dis-respected both Kaushalya and Sumitra, and Dasharath ill-treated both Kaushalya and Sumitra (indeed, in Valmiki Ramayan Sarg 20, she complains that Dasharath treated her worse than Kaikeyi's maids, presumably Manthara). That was the root cause of Lakshman's initial fury at news of Rama's exile - he thought that Dasharath and Bharat were in on the plot of Manthara and Kaikeyi.

You know this is just a long shot, but my sister was wondering the same thing on if Sumitra was reborn as Rohini....& she also applied the concept that Rohini "gave birth" to Shesh Naag (Balram), but in actuality of course Balram was named because he transferred from Devaki's womb to Rohini's womb!!!!! And in Treta Yug, Sumitra gave birth to Shesh Naag (Laxman)!!!!
Does this make sense to ne1..or m i just blabbering???😃😆
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#12

Originally posted by: desichica

You know this is just a long shot, but my sister was wondering the same thing on if Sumitra was reborn as Rohini....& she also applied the concept that Rohini "gave birth" to Shesh Naag (Balram), but in actuality of course Balram was named because he transferred from Devaki's womb to Rohini's womb!!!!! And in Treta Yug, Sumitra gave birth to Shesh Naag (Laxman)!!!!
Does this make sense to ne1..or m i just blabbering???😃😆

No, you're not blabbering, I was thinking the same thing too. It definitely makes sense. I also heard that King Dasharath was reborn as Vasudev, but then who is Nand Baba?
desichica thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#13
No, you're not blabbering, I was thinking the same thing too. It definitely makes sense. I also heard that King Dasharath was reborn as Vasudev, but then who is Nand Baba?
Oh ok....I apologize earlier you & rupali asked who is Nand Baba...I totally misunderstood the reasoning...my apologies!!!!! You know a long time ago i also tried researching who Nand Baba was a reincarnation of!!! But I got not results....not even Wiki helped me on this one......😆!!!!!
Sorry...i wish i cud help on this one!!!!
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#14
Thanks everybody for weighing in. Incidentally, what is KHMK? Also, where did it appear that Vali was reborn as Jara - I thought that as a part of the forgiveness package of Rama, Vali would be free of further re-births.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#15

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Thanks everybody for weighing in. Incidentally, what is KHMK? Also, where did it appear that Vali was reborn as Jara - I thought that as a part of the forgiveness package of Rama, Vali would be free of further re-births.

KHMK stands for Kahani Hamaaray Mahabharat Ki, and it is a rendition of Mahabharat by director Ekta Kapoor, and basically, we use KHMK as an example a lot in this Ramayan Forum, because Ekta completely changed the story of Mahabharat in her serial and added her own little stories while taking away the important crucial points of Mahabharat.
And I never heart of Vali being reborn as Jara. And who is Jara?😳
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#16

Originally posted by: godisone

KHMK stands for Kahani Hamaaray Mahabharat Ki, and it is a rendition of Mahabharat by director Ekta Kapoor, and basically, we use KHMK as an example a lot in this Ramayan Forum, because Ekta completely changed the story of Mahabharat in her serial and added her own little stories while taking away the important crucial points of Mahabharat.



Sounds a lot like BR Chopra to me. Gee, wonder why nobody can do the Mahabharat right, according to Vyasa - particularly since unlike the Ramayan, there is only that version.

For the record, I haven't, and don't watch HKMK, so any criticism of BRC shouldn't be read as a tacic approval of HKMK.

Originally posted by: godisone


And I never heart of Vali being reborn as Jara. And who is Jara?😳


Jara was the hunter who killed Krishna after Balarama transformed into Sesha-nag and went into the sea, and Krishna lay down to rest under a tree. I was previously under the impression that Vali had been completely liberated from future rebirth cycles, but once, on some Youtube channels where the original Sagar episodes were being shown, some posters mentioned that he was granted that since Rama had unfairly slain him, he'd get to return the favor in his future birth.
Edited by Chandraketu - 16 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#17

Originally posted by: Chandraketu



Sounds a lot like BR Chopra to me. Gee, wonder why nobody can do the Mahabharat right, according to Vyasa - particularly since unlike the Ramayan, there is only that version.


Jara was the hunter who killed Krishna after Balarama transformed into Sesha-nag and went into the sea, and Krishna lay down to rest under a tree. I was previously under the impression that Vali had been completely liberated from future rebirth cycles, but once, on some Youtube channels where the original Sagar episodes were being shown, some posters mentioned that he was granted that since Rama had unfairly slain him, he'd get to return the favor in his future birth.

I loved BR Chopra's Mahabharat. I thought it was the best one made of it so far, and Rupali as Draupadi was excellent. I own that MB and I can't ever stop watching it. Ekta's is nowhere like that. Her's is actually scandalously different. You'd be horrified, but BR's was an excellent rendition of Mahabharat.
And thanks for the info about Jara, but I can confirm that Jara is not Vali, because I read somewhere that Angad was reborn as Jara, because he hadn't fulfilled his duty to avenge his father's death in his previous avatar, and had to be reborn as Jara to do so in the Krishna Avatar. I'll try to find the source where I read it.
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#18
Godisone

I'll try not to be too off-topic here, but my main problem with BRC was that they assigned to themselves the role of Vyasa, in addition to all the others - the serial was horribly fictitious. Everybody in it was a philosophical chatterbox, and I hated how centric it was around Vidura and Shakuni, and also how it exaggerated the camaraderie between Kunti and Gandhari. Aside from major distortions - like Duryodhan lighting Karna's pyre, for instance - Duryodhan never in his life got to know who Karna really was, and the reason Kunti confessed his story was that she couldn't let him go without an appropriate funeral, which the Pandavas weren't going to give him in absence of the truth.

No, I judge epic serials on accuracy, and BRC gets an F. I wonder how this would do, but I somehow don't watch it. I'd however love it if someday someone does a serial on the entire Mahabharat in its originality - with all the characters represented.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#19

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

Godisone

I'll try not to be too off-topic here, but my main problem with BRC was that they assigned to themselves the role of Vyasa, in addition to all the others - the serial was horribly fictitious. Everybody in it was a philosophical chatterbox, and I hated how centric it was around Vidura and Shakuni, and also how it exaggerated the camaraderie between Kunti and Gandhari. Aside from major distortions - like Duryodhan lighting Karna's pyre, for instance - Duryodhan never in his life got to know who Karna really was, and the reason Kunti confessed his story was that she couldn't let him go without an appropriate funeral, which the Pandavas weren't going to give him in absence of the truth.

No, I judge epic serials on accuracy, and BRC gets an F. I wonder how this would do, but I somehow don't watch it. I'd however love it if someday someone does a serial on the entire Mahabharat in its originality - with all the characters represented.

I guess this is another point we won't agree on,😆😆😆 because I personally never felt BR's MB was as fictitious as you said. I too judge a serial on its accuracy, but we can't expect every mythological to be absolutely perfect, because there are sooooooooooo many different books on MB out there, that directors choose the one they believe in. While this might not make some people happy, it satisfies the people who believe that version. Get what I mean? It's hard to judge which book is absolutely accurate in these days, because the story's been passed down so many generations that some changes are bound to happen, but the important thing in serials is to show the basic overall story. For example, there are different versions in the Ramayana about the Chaya Sita concept, but all of them have Sita's agni pariksha in them, don't they? If a Ramayana serial left out the agni pariksha alltogether, then we would know that that is absolutely wrong, but details like the Chaya Sita concept vary depending on the version people read. Like in the Sagars Ramayana, they showed that Sitaji knew about her exile beforehand, but some people believe that she did not, and those won't like the Sagar's rendition of Uttar Ramayan, while those who believe in the Sagars' version will like it.

But Ekta's MB is different, because she completely made up a story that Duryodhan was actually friendly with the Pandavas in the beginning and loved them like his brothers until a murder attempt was made on him, and Kunti and the Pandavas became the subjects. Although it was proven later on that they didn't do it, Duryodhan never got over his hatred and that's why he hated the Pandavas. I mean, how pathetic of a story is that? There's also another story she made up that Bhishma had a fight with Dhritarastra and left Hastinapura, but was later "coaxed" to come back. That was definitely an untrue story, because Bhishma Pitamah made a vow that he would always support Hastinapura no matter what, and he stuck to that vow throughout his life, even by fighting for the Adharm side in the war. In Ekta's MB, she shows Bhishma in a pitiable light, and I did not like that at all, because he was a great respected person, and never broke his vow, especially due to a petty fight.
Just a quesion, what grades will you give the older ramayan and this Ramayan?
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#20
Godisone

In that case, based on your description, given that I haven't seen the serial myself, I'd agree with you that HKMK is abominable if it comes out with accounts of Duryodhan's enemity like the one you mentioned.

I understand why you prefer BRC to this - I would too, but that doesn't change the fact that BRC had taken too many liberties with the story.

Given how my observations seem to have ruffled a few feathers and provoked a cover thread, I'll let this be my last comment about the accuracy of either the Sagars or BRC. I'd however like to emphasize that those criticisms in no way imply an endorsement of HKMK, which I haven't watched. Nor should the fact that HKMK is abominable about the script change whether what's in BRC is accurate or not.

Originally posted by: godisone

Just a quesion, what grades will you give the older ramayan and this Ramayan?



This one a 7 - at least based on the episodes I've seen (every one since the episode of Vali defeating Ravan). The earlier one a 6.

Edited by Chandraketu - 16 years ago

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