Saras, Kumud & SC - Why & What next? - Page 3

Created

Last reply

Replies

30

Views

3.8k

Users

17

Likes

104

Frequent Posters

hotdogg thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Navigator Thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#21

Originally posted by: kaadal


Arshi, I am ok with how the PMS was showed, Saras saying that all the distance between them is now over shows a clear picture of what happened. Kumud reacting in this way is understandable in a way but still something is wrong in it...not sure whether it was the direction or her acting. I agree with you something is missing in it, though her reactions are what it should be but not towards Saras. I hope it is just her initial reactions and she remembers her talk about love and trust. Let us see how this week is turning to.



kaadal-
i guess we feel discontinuity because of 3 things:

1) not clear enough depiction of kumud's perspective on love. We had to grapple with the volte-face between kumud giving solace to saras on what love means to her (jealousy track) and her desire for a kissa / proposal. Post PMS feels like a full u-turn for most.

2) missing link showing kumud's realization post PMS and descent into remorse, basis #1.

3) jennifer's depiction of remorse.. she is a good actor. So dunno if she got the cues from the director to play the remorse as OTT (for trp) or whether it was her own interpretation.

Point #3 has been the most jarring. CVs could have factored #1 & #2 during extended non-hysterical dialogue scenes between saras & kumud. However, Its only been OTT tear shedding.

so lets see if some smoothening happens in next week..



LazyLad14 thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Commentator Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#22


wow good series of questions...i've been watching n have become a loyal fan of d show plus both lead.n enjoy every epi...now what i've been observng is till now...the show startd with a good ,was sumthng new... but lack of continous low trp made them to follow this mistakes , or risk... n little bit a mess of show...before that everythng was gong fine i guesss...

the big drawback of the show is currently the execution n the missing links epi or continuity...
.
-
1) saras and kumud's understanding of love --> so hurried (radha / dandiya).

agreed wid all ur explanations...love journey was a bit hurried...they actuly needed to slowed down their story over here...not some illogical n less imp issues...
2) saras public declaration --> so hurried (kumud gets taunted, saras decides to announce)
agreed i guess they wantd to finish d scenes asap over here...
3) Add all the noise of the wedding, Saras rai, kumari, guman antics --> Why mix it with the story pivot? Could it not have been pushed later?

if this has to anythng wid samud journey of love...then i can tolerate.but the kumari n gumaan stories has to support their main story ..that is imp..if its gng to affect them strongly...

4) PMS & aftermath --> half baked . for this i wuld wait for monday epi to exactly c what happened really??? otherwise....u cant let d viewers to assume n judge everythng on their own...we'r n here to solve a puzzle...

5) add the frantic desire / attempt to move the story to the next act...and you will see getting added more 5 minute story elements...its like a sand pile...just adding more and more sand to the pile...sooner rather than later... without a proper foundation its going to collapse on itself...( exactly this what is actully gng n current epi...too hard to digest for ppl)

...its already resulted in a plain butchering of the characters the leads (specially kumud since she's in the dock now for totally portraying a 'different' version) have tried so hard to build and portray...

...request to CVs would be to please give adequate screen time and dialogues / scenes to build the characters perspective and story...

What Next?

This has been a life defining / changing event for both...not just on the physical level but on the mental level...both did not plan for it and were not ready emotionally too...but still their love drove them towards it...They went from barely holding hands to PMS in an instant with no stages of mutual intimacy in between.

... this event and the way it happened has changed both of them irreversibly...and like a spark, it has lit a fire in the emotional areas of both of their minds regarding what each means to the other...both have no doubt that they love each other DESPITE the PMS and the way it happened..

...but because of this event, they have progressed in a blink of an eye from puppy love to the real thing...now the hard part begins...

...old concepts / perceptions put in place when each was alone in his / her universe are being burned off...new ones which factor in that they are a couple now & that changes EVERYTHING because they are a couple now are being forged ...

...this churning is causing each to relook at their perception / understanding of their own self worth, their duties & obligations as individuals and as a couple, their duties & obligations as a couple to other common relationships, their individual place / role in the world, their role / place with each other, what is private, what is intimate, where does each one stand on ideas / beliefs with respect to his partners, what is each willing to hold on to and let go, what takes precedence etc etc...

I think if SLB wants to show their love deepening into a very substantial, intense, pure, full of mutual trust & respect, janam janam ka saath types, a private space where only each other can enter & no one else...the theory that it is now saras turn is the only way he can do so...

..now it is saras turn to rescue kumud from her emotional distress...she does not hate him / his love...but herself...if he does resolve her conflict...this lady is not going anywhere come what may..


BUT if SLB wants to screw it all up now and move towards a superficial seperation...he will use this in a very ham - handed way and move on...

I am just hoping:
1) that he chooses above logic...the pieces are set to leverage this event and distress to really show how deep real love can become...
2) if he does go for #1 he uses proper length of time, crisp dialogues, and not do 5 minute jingle-like scenes.


@hotdogg: wonderful points u shared n discussed above...

lets email this to cv's... lets hope...they wont dissapoint ahead n future ..future tracks if they r readng n visting this forum...

all d commnts ( highlighted) most imp r exactly matchd wid mine thoughts.n most of d viewrs too ..i m sure...

keep it up..keep questing like this...

..


MistyDawn thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 12 years ago
#23
@hotdogg- Firstly I must say that you did a brilliant job summarising the crux of our discussions in Arshi's CB.. I agree with many and have a different opinion on some.. I will try and put forth my views on some issues you raised..

- I think our forum is in general disappointed by the execution of the PMS scene.. I won't lie.. I, myself was looking forward to see some more intimacy between them only because Gautam and Jennifer's onscreen chemistry is something I love to watch...from character's point of view or as far as the storyline is concerned, I do not think it was rushed or poorly conceptualised.. You have read my views on that particular scene in CB..Earlier I felt, that the only glitch, was the disconnect between the last shot of the PMS scene and the morning scene..I think it was a choice between choosing a bold concept like PMS versus a visually sensuous but superficially intimate scene.. If they wanted, they could have shown some close scene like they did in the promo but in that case, Kumu'd reaction the next morning would be even more hard to relate to..It either had to be all or none, if you know what I mean..

- My understanding of what they wanted to achieve through this scene was to bring out the difference in their perspectives, their understanding of love, its expression, boundaries, social acceptance etc etc etc.. throughout this marriage track, we saw how they are different in their ways of perception and expression of love..The jealousy track, highlighted one key difference- For Kumud, where there is jealousy there is no love.. For Saras- jealousy is an expression of the extreme possessiveness he feels for her..

Kumud feels social acceptance, a legit official proposal in front of the whole family is a must to take the relationship forward.. Saras would have never understood all that, had Kumud and Guniyal not pushed him..

And now the consummation act.. we can see how it has become a major conflict of views between the two.. Not only, her family upbringing, parents extreme trust and moral values, are at stake but also the fact that she like any other girl , holds her chastity as the most prized asset.. The saying, ''mardo ko moh ka shrap hota hai aur aurton ko mardyada ka vardaan'' does have a firm basis, as regressive as it might sound..

I completely agree with the ''theory'' that Samarth has proposed and we all have supported :) Kumud's stand on this whole issue based on her ideas of morality and immorality , largely influenced by the conservative( in a good way) upbringing she has had, should NOT be or may I say, can NOT be judged or questioned.. Like smrth said, this is the same value system that has made Kumud the girl she is today..some1 who has transformed Saras for the better.. After all that she did for him and his family, without any assurance of getting anything in return (atleast before the confession), so selflesslessly, I believe that he owes to her, to stand by her during her difficult times.. comfort her, assure her, support her, with the same persistence that she had when she healed him..

Lastly, I would like to say something in SLB's defence.. :)) In my opinion, compressing ideas to make a 3 hour movie, where you have to tell a story spanning over, maybe 5-10 years, showing complete graph of the characters in limited time, without having the liberty to undo any track or scene that stands out as a misfit or hampers the storyline, is far more more difficult than showing the same thing through a daily soap.. where you have time and the option to experiment..proceed with a track if it works with the audience and dump if it doesn't.. SLB has the done the tougher job so I dont think its difficult for him in that respect.. the only problem is TRPs which can restrain their creative liberty to show a certain thing, a certain way.. Also I think, we tend to get impatient at times.. Couple of episodes don't go the way we wanted, specially referring to the PMS track, and the whole forum, throws in their towels.. lost interest, show going in dumps.. why? More than anything, its the forum's reaction that disappoints me.. The show has been going great so far.. they are trying to strike a balance between the regular commercial format of story telling and the unconventional format that relies more on meaty dialogues, performances and fine nuances.. lets be a lil patient if we are actually keen to see something different from the regular run of the mill love stories..
Edited by vaishali-AR - 12 years ago
kaadal thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 12 years ago
#24

Originally posted by: hotdogg



kaadal-
i guess we feel discontinuity because of 3 things:

1) not clear enough depiction of kumud's perspective on love. We had to grapple with the volte-face between kumud giving solace to saras on what love means to her (jealousy track) and her desire for a kissa / proposal. Post PMS feels like a full u-turn for most.

2) missing link showing kumud's realization post PMS and descent into remorse, basis #1.

3) jennifer's depiction of remorse.. she is a good actor. So dunno if she got the cues from the director to play the remorse as OTT (for trp) or whether it was her own interpretation.

Point #3 has been the most jarring. CVs could have factored #1 & #2 during extended non-hysterical dialogue scenes between saras & kumud. However, Its only been OTT tear shedding.

so lets see if some smoothening happens in next week..




Hotdogg, #3 her remorse as for me though looks a bit overboard I can almost relate it to her state of mind, a hysterical state thinking she has done this, she has broken her parents trust. Her state of mind is evident when she tells Guniyal how she will face her dad. Kumud has always been shown as a strong girl conflicts a bit on this state but for me it is #1. Her 180 degree turn towards Saras is what I am not able to digest. If it is a momentarily feeling towards him I can almost understand but precap showed her still feeling a grudge towards him which is confusing for her character.
smrth thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#25

Originally posted by: vaishali-AR



- My understanding of what they wanted to achieve through this scene was to bring out the difference in their perspectives, their understanding of love, its expression, boundaries, social acceptance etc etc etc.. throughout this marriage track, we saw how they are different in their ways of perception and expression of love..The jealousy track, highlighted one key difference- For Kumud, where there is jealousy there is no love.. For Saras- jealousy is an expression of the extreme possessiveness he feels for her..

Kumud feels social acceptance, a legit official proposal in front of the whole family is a must to take the relationship forward.. Saras would have never understood all that, had Kumud and Guniyal not pushed him..

And now the consummation act.. we can see how it has become a major conflict of views between the two.. Not only, her family upbringing, parents extreme trust and moral values, are at stake but also the fact that she like any other girl , holds her chastity as the most prized asset.. The saying, ''mardo ko moh ka shrap hota hai aur aurton ko mardyada ka vardaan'' does have a firm basis, as regressive as it might sound..


And Vaishali, interestingly, She ( as a character) is much brought down from moral high horse she rode through out in the book vis, both the male suitors...the way, she was naturally wrote about in original...as with a 'preserved' chastity (despite our instinctive dislike for a prudish 'moral intone' of 'the idea').
1) Vis. Saras- for first 'flowing' in with a keen joy and than 'volt facing' a consent on after glow of her moral high horse- 'she is unjust and dishonest with him.'
2) Vis Pramad- ironically, the same ghost of orthodox boundary working now against her. Exactly the way she has feared and Saras had brushed aside with a dash, 'we are integrated/engaged, read; married for all practical purpose. Unfortunately for her, events bring her to other marriage. She may feel guilt ridden from the start...(again, putting aside correctness of modern outlook, from her 'traditional' POV here). This, unlike original, where she tried to work on her hapless marriage when bungles came only from Pramad's philandering ways. ( but Pramad is going to be written a much worse black gourd than only promiscuity, I hope).😆

And yes, I am liking this PMS adaption..." The end is assured."😆


Edited by smrth - 12 years ago
MistyDawn thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 12 years ago
#26

Originally posted by: smrth

And Vaishali, interestingly, She ( as a character) is much brought down from moral high horse she rode through out in the book vis, both the male suitors...the way, she was naturally wrote about in original...as with a 'preserved' chastity (despite our instinctive dislike for a prudish regressiveness of 'the idea').
1) Vis. Saras- for first 'flowing' in with a keen joy and than 'volt facing' a consent on after glow of her moral high horse- 'she is unjust and dishonest with him.'
2) Vis Pramad- ironically, the same ghost of orthodox boundary working now against her. Exactly the way she has feared and Saras had brushed aside with a dash, 'we are integrated/engaged, read; married for all practical purpose. Unfortunately for her, events brings her to other marriage. She may feel guilt ridden from the start...(again, putting aside correctness of modern outlook, f rom her 'traditional' POV here). This, unlike original, where she tried to work on her hapless marriage when bungles came only from Pramad's philandering ways. ( but Pramad is going to be written a much worse black gourd than only promiscuity, I hope).😆

And yes, I am liking this PMS adaption..." The end is assured."😆



@Smrth- Can't compare the two portrayals, book versus the show, coz I havent read it..But, of wateva I gathered from your inputs and few things I read about the characters, I think the one in the show is more close to someone I can identify with.. more humane with relatable flaws like pride, childish arrogance, intolerance, impatience , anger also natural human tendency to err in moments of weakness..compared to the one in the novel who seems like some divine entity always ready to be a martyr... This Kumud seems like a fighter.. someone who can turn the situations around her if they are not conducive instead of compromising..like she changed Saras.. I don't know if they had this track in the book..

So the way I see it.., I would say she has been made more relatble , than ''been brought down from moral high horse'' those kinda characters are more relatable in mythological books tbh..!! Her reaction, though slightly OTT, is in line with her character.. even if she blames Saras partly, I can understand coz she has never hesitated to blame him if she found him wrong in her mind.. recall all the taunts about the rejection letter..calling him selfish, coward.. her outburst is more like an immediate reaction of someone who was watching a beautiful dream, waking up to a harsh reality..I am sure with time and effort, sanity will prevail and she will accept it the way she ought to..

We'l see how the marriage with Pramad happens.. and how she will be able to work it out after what happened between her and Saras.. too early to predict now, specially when SLB is surprising us with so many tracks deviating from the original plot..

Yeah, like you, I also feel that if nothing then this PMS track is in all probability an early conformation of a happy union in the end.
smrth thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#27
^^^
Yes Vaishali, this Kumud is more real and better for the same.and there lies the final hope too...and there is no such track there...I won't speak from our likes...this from what she wud be feeling even in her adapted mode, I suppose...but let us see how it unfolds here...
hotdogg thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Navigator Thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#28
agree vaishali.

SLB has made major adaptations..

I just hope he uses the post PMS tracks to:

1) cement the love & trust further between saras & kumud.

If he straight away moves to seperation, without closure on this step, the entire story after seperation (whenever it happens) will be hard to believe. How unrealistic will depiction of the strength of their love be if they seperate under current circumstances?.

2) reconcile kumud's cast character with her current behaviour. I still believe that due to a splotchy track from proposal to PMS, it is difficult to understand at first instance her behaviours.

Another challenge now due to the above - As arshi noted, if she comes around too quickly and we will wonder what was the hysterics all about, and if she comes around too late it further alienates her character from viewers.

Add to this that now gunial knows...so she's going to have a track of her own now to sort this out...more sand on the sand pile...

3) clean up the narrative by making it more crisp & clear.

While, we have discussed among the forum and know where characters are coming from, it should not be this hard all the time.

Most of us on the forum have internet and download the epis and watch it again & again to decipher events, messages etc. But for the average tv viewer, the events / characters have to more or less explain themselves. Then there is pleasure for viewers in the story & identification with characters which then build trps.

I still feel the crispness in screenplay sequencing, dialogues needs to be taken up several notches - especially for a complex story like this. There is too much reliance on the visual medium for messaging which is leaving massive gaps. (For e.g. your fantastic explanation on the pre-PMS scene. If there was no vaishali, I just would not have got it and continued to rate the scene as below par.)

This was all ok in the initial stages, but as the story moves forward into more complexity, without proper commnication of the message / context through more verbal scenes, dialogues etc. the gaps in understanding a characters behaviour will only widen.


Edited by hotdogg - 12 years ago
MistyDawn thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 12 years ago
#29

Originally posted by: hotdogg

agree vaishali.

SLB has made major adaptations..

I just hope he uses the post PMS tracks to:

1) cement the love & trust further between saras & kumud.

If he straight away moves to seperation, without closure on this step, the entire story after seperation (whenever it happens) will be hard to believe. How unrealistic will depiction of the strength of their love be if they seperate under current circumstances?.

2) reconcile kumud's cast character with her current behaviour. I still believe that due to a splotchy track from proposal to PMS, it is difficult to understand at first instance her behaviours.

Another challenge now due to the above - As arshi noted, if she comes around too quickly and we will wonder what was the hysterics all about, and if she comes around too late it further alienates her character from viewers.

Add to this that now gunial knows...so she's going to have a track of her own now to sort this out...more sand on the sand pile...

3) clean up the narrative by making it more crisp & clear.

While, we have discussed among the forum and know where characters are coming from, it should not be this hard all the time.

Most of us on the forum have internet and download the epis and watch it again & again to decipher events, messages etc. But for the average tv viewer, the events / characters have to more or less explain themselves. Then there is pleasure for viewers in the story & identification with characters which then build trps.

I still feel the crispness in screenplay sequencing, dialogues needs to be taken up several notches - especially for a complex story like this. There is too much reliance on the visual medium for messaging which is leaving massive gaps. (For e.g. your fantastic explanation on the pre-PMS scene. If there was no vaishali, I just would not have got it and continued to rate the scene as below par.)

This was all ok in the initial stages, but as the story moves forward into more complexity, without proper commnication of the message / context through more verbal scenes, dialogues etc. the gaps in understanding a characters behavoiur will only widen.



@hgg- Agree..there is always a scope for better screenplay and execution..I just feel that in narration of a complex subject like this, things may look good one day and not so good the other day.. Consistency in the quality of the episodes, where there are so many checkpoints (TRPs, maintaining decent pace etc) is sometimes hard to achieve, even for greats like SLB.. But if the overall hard work shows, then I don't mind them giving a benefit of doubt on an odd day.. afterall so many things are put together to make one shot happen..scope for slacking is very marginal with a critical audience like us..

About the challenge, regarding the time Kumud takes to come around, I think more than the time its the event or what Saras does to re-instil her shaken self-belief that will matter..

P.S- I have to say that all these discussions have made the experience of watching the show even more wonderful..its like watching the show and reading the book at the same time :)
Edited by vaishali-AR - 12 years ago
happychappy thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Commentator Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
#30

Originally posted by: hotdogg



Wanted to share:

...have been thinking why I continue to give such a long rope to this show...never have to any other show...

This quote from Gladiator probably comes close to my reasons:
There was once a dream that was Rome. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish... it was so fragile.

...It is in a fragile state right now...it has so much potential to showcase Ise Pyaar Kehte Hai...and I just hope it doesn't vanish.

Posting this so that it makes some sense to us fans on the entire mess which started with the PMS...


Thanks, hgg-bhai! Bravo!

If there is only one post the CV's can read, it should be this one.😊

Re: the postscript to your post quoted above, very true... As i wrote on CB 04/06, I believe us die-hard viewers are in love with the "idea" of the show, its complexity, the subtleties, the characters ,... SLB must have done something right to get us hooked and now he reaps the rewards of that! So we repair our little bubbles which get bruised when sometimes team SLB loses the plot, and we keep hoping and... watching!
Edited by happychappy - 12 years ago

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".