Pitch Correction: Musical Ethics - Page 7

Originally posted by: qwertyasdfgh

Do u get pitch correction in whole, 1% and 2%?????

aur kuch nahee, we'll certainly create a new employment sector, the "pitch-counting" profession 😉

will leave with the following excerpts from the Gulzar thread (http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=260035& TPN= 5)

Gulzar learning the new generation lingo
12th Sept 2005 12.47 IST
By Agencies

Moving with the times is his mantra and he is constantly imbibing fresh ideas and re-inventing himself to keep pace with the new generation, says noted poet-lyricist Gulzar .

"The new generation is moving too fast. I am trying to walk along with them by imbibing fresh ideas, learning their language," says the Bollywood legend, who has written highly successful lyrics of markedly different moods for films like Paheli , Bunty Aur Babli and Yahaan in 2005.

....

Although films gave him mass recognition, Gulzar personifies poetry. It does not bother him that true admirers of 'sher-o-shairi' are becoming rare these days. "Poetry comes from your heart. It is not important whether there are enough people to read, understand and admire it," asserts Gulzar, who was in the national capital recently.

....

Note:

1. someone of his calibre, genius and stature talks of constantly re-inventing himself.. moving with the new generation and with the times. would this imply a yes from his side for pitch correction?

2. "it does not bother him that true admirers of 'sher-o-shairi' are becoming rare these days." would that philosophy lead him to also say that true admirers of the pitch-uncorrected versions should not fear the new developments... ?

i dont know. just thought those paras shed some light into his thinking. am just trying to relate these thoughts to this thread.

Thnks KB ji….it will be very helpful for those young singers who were thinking of taking singing seriously…… 👏

Aayeeye surmaji. Aayeeye meherbaan. Kahan they itne din? Aapko sub ne yaad kiya.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

will leave with the following excerpts from the Gulzar thread (http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=260035& TPN= 5)

Gulzar learning the new generation lingo
12th Sept 2005 12.47 IST
By Agencies

Moving with the times is his mantra and he is constantly imbibing fresh ideas and re-inventing himself to keep pace with the new generation, says noted poet-lyricist Gulzar .

"The new generation is moving too fast. I am trying to walk along with them by imbibing fresh ideas, learning their language," says the Bollywood legend, who has written highly successful lyrics of markedly different moods for films like Paheli , Bunty Aur Babli and Yahaan in 2005.

....

Although films gave him mass recognition, Gulzar personifies poetry. It does not bother him that true admirers of 'sher-o-shairi' are becoming rare these days. "Poetry comes from your heart. It is not important whether there are enough people to read, understand and admire it," asserts Gulzar, who was in the national capital recently.

....

Note:

1. someone of his calibre, genius and stature talks of constantly re-inventing himself.. moving with the new generation and with the times. would this imply a yes from his side for pitch correction?

2. "it does not bother him that true admirers of 'sher-o-shairi' are becoming rare these days." would that philosophy lead him to also say that true admirers of the pitch-uncorrected versions should not fear the new developments... ?

i dont know. just thought those paras shed some light into his thinking. am just trying to relate these thoughts to this thread.

Now now chatbuster, I think you are going off at a tangent, bringing in an article on Gulzar which has nothing to do with pitch correction. 😊
When Gulzar talks about moving with times, re-inventing himself etc, he is referring to his poetry. His lyrics in "Bunty aur Babli" reflect how he has moved. (he thinks he has moved with the times while I would like to think that he has 'dumbed down' his poetry to suit the current generation). Let's not extrapolate his thoughts on lyrics into the realm of music and pitch correction.

Originally posted by: surma_bhopali

is wajah se aajkal khoobsurat gane nahin bante, kyonki aadhe se zyada gane aise yeh singers gaa nahin paayenge. lata ne miyan, hali mein farmaya tha ki aajkal dil ko chu jane wale sad songs bante hi nahin hai. ab dekho himesh ka sad song. woh tera suroor. kahan hai dard, kahan hai bhaav? ab lelo woh sad song - o duniya ke rakhwale. miyan, lahol vilakuvat keh riya hoon, jab bhi sunta hoon na, aansoo nikalte hain. ab woh gana koi aise gaa sakta hai kya? maine, allah ki kasam, aaj tak us gane ko perfectly gate hue kisiko nahin suna, rafi miyan ke alawa, unke live concerts mein.

isliye, pitch correction hatao, to gayak tameez se riyaaz karenge. tameez se riyaaz karenge, to dhang se gaayenge. to unki gayaki sawar jayegi. tab sangeetkar kisi bhi tarah ke gane bana paayenge. tab phir filmi sangeet sanwar jayega.

nahin to woh bhi meri biwi ke rotiyon ki tarah hi din-ba-din badtar hoti jayegi...keh riya hoon.

Very good points, surma miyan!!!👏 IMO, in an art such as singing, there is only so much that technology can do.

Originally posted by: punjini

Now now chatbuster, I think you are going off at a tangent, bringing in an article on Gulzar which has nothing to do with pitch correction. 😊
When Gulzar talks about moving with times, re-inventing himself etc, he is referring to his poetry. His lyrics in "Bunty aur Babli" reflect how he has moved. (he thinks he has moved with the times while I would like to think that he has 'dumbed down' his poetry to suit the current generation). Let's not extrapolate his thoughts on lyrics into the realm of music and pitch correction.

kamaal hai, what doesn't suit one's thinking, we come up with a "dumbed-down" intepretation. madam, people make artistes great. not the other way around. if your fav artiste did not have any fans, wld he/ she be still considered great. maybe he was operating in la-la land before and the masses pulled that favorite back to reality. kamaal hai 😛

as for the tangents, i'd prefer to call it correlative thinking. 😉 Some people do have a consistent philosophy where they do not change their stance based on personal whims and conveniences, hard as this might be for some to understand. and that's how we can often predict how certain people will think or react on certain issues. now, whatever the case, we do have some folks who will argue for the old school, dont we? baat kuch bhee ho, one can predict how they will think, no?

didnt understand? remember the old analogies on the SAT tests? intelligence is about being able to correlate things in different spheres of our lives as well. hard for everyone to understand that, no?😛

Originally posted by: ab_srgmp

Very good points, surma miyan!!!👏 IMO, in an art such as singing, there is only so much that technology can do.

bhiaya, sawaal ethics ka hai, personal preferences ka naheen. ab tak nahee samjhe?

Originally posted by: chatbuster

kamaal hai, what doesn't suit one's thinking, we come up with a "dumbed-down" intepretation. madam, people make artistes great. not the other way around. if your fav artiste did not have any fans, wld he/ she be still considered great. maybe he was operating in la-la land before and the masses pulled that favorite back to reality. kamaal hai 😛

as for the tangents, i'd prefer to call it correlative thinking. 😉 Some people do have a consistent philosophy where they do not change their stance based on personal whims and conveniences, hard as this might be for some to understand. and that's how we can often predict how certain people will think or react on certain issues. now, whatever the case, we do have some folks who will argue for the old school, dont we? baat kuch bhee ho, one can predict how they will think, no?

didnt understand? remember the old analogies on the SAT tests? intelligence is about being able to correlate things in different spheres of our lives as well. hard for everyone to understand that, no?😛

I think I specified quite clearly that it's as per my thinking that Gulzar has dumbed down his lyrics. I am not speaking for the masses.

Coming to your going off at a tangent, you call it correlative thinking. Now with this kind of thinking, you can extrapolate anything. When Gulzar talks about his lyrics, you can extrapolate that he thinks the same about pitch correction, about modern art, about fashion designing, about sex and so on. First of all, we don't even know whether he has a consistent philosophy, so why are we wasting our time? It is better not to bring in unconnected articles which weaken the focus of a discussion.

In any case, I have agreed to your ideas about ethics of pitch correction (contest versus recorded music). I have only added a rider (in a lighter vein) that I would like to see some kind of labelling of music in the manner of organic food and modified food. With this I sign off for the night. Bye.

Originally posted by: chatbuster

bhiaya, sawaal ethics ka hai, personal preferences ka naheen. ab tak nahee samjhe?

Not sure who that was addressed to but here's a quote from the original post:

"But is it ethical? Because such a concept is introduced, can you slacken up your riyaaz schedule, since missing a few notes can be cleaned up? Can you still be called a good singer even though you depend on pitch correcting? Should it be used as a condiment used sparingly and not as the main course? ."

Ethics is not the SOLE issue up for discussion. Atleast, that's what I understood...

Coming to ethics...It's hard to say. If used sparingly, it's ok. If it was a perfect world, and there was no unethical activities going on such as bribes, plaigarism etc, then the answer is easy. But minor adjustments, I wouldn't consider a crime.