Is A R Rehman repeatitive? - Page 3

I always took pride as a Bengali that the best music directors in the industry starting from the musical genius of Punkaj Mullick to S.D., Hemant Kumar (or Hemanta'da as we call him), to Salil'da and then Pancham hailed from Bengal.. As very truely pointed out by Soulsoup and Sinha'ji, some of them did not get the due recognition they deserved, but who can forget the melodies of 'Itna na mujhse tu pyar badha' or 'Na jane kyon, hota hai yeh zindagi ke sath' or 'Zindagi kaisi yeh paheli haaye'...
In the recent times, ARR has been one person who has gifted us some refreshingly different music.. be that 'Pal pal hai bhari', or 'Rubaroo', 'Hey uri uri uri' or 'Ghanana Ghanana'.. I would say each of these songs are different from the other and show what versatility ARR is capable of.. Yes, he has his trademark but that only distinguishes him from others.. and this was the case even with the all time greats like S.D., Madan Mohan or O.P.Nayyar.. that certainly does not make any of them repitative..

Sinha ji
Excellent article
Sharing an old Interview with Mr.Rahman

Question: How did you come into films?

A.R.Rahman: My father, R.K.Shekar, was a music director in Malayalam films. He assisted Salil Chowdhary, Devrajan and others. He died when I was nine. At 11, I came to the field, playing on the keyboards and later as an accompanyist. I worked under various music directors in Tamil, Telugu and Malayalam - Ramesh Naidu, M.S.Vishwanathan and Illayaraja. It started becoming a bit monotonous. I thought advertising would be a good alternative.
This went on for three years. I built my studio and took to different forms of music - pop, rock and so on. It was then that I met producer Tirlok Sharadha, cousin of Mani Rathnam at a party. He (Mani) came to my studio and heard some of my tunes. We agreed to work together though we did not then decide on which movie.Only later he told me it was to be "Roja" which he was directing for K.Balachander.

Q: Despite your success, you do not seem to be working in a lot of films.

ARR: Rather than making money, I believe in making people happy; all other things are secondary. That is why I am not interested in a lot of movies but only in one at a time. I like directors whom I can vibe with. Ten years of experience in this field has made me quite frustrated. I have evolved a technique which requires a lot of time. Other music directors record a song in seven or eight hours. But I am different. We do a basic sitting and we record it. We record the voice and I add instrument by instrument to improve the quality.

Q: Will not the producers say that you are delaying their projects?

ARR: My process involves a lot of time. The delay is not intentional. That is how I get my results. When people say that in "Gentleman" and "Thiruda Thiruda" the music is good and not like the usual beats, I feel happy. Abroad, in some places, they take three months to make an album.

Q: Do you use computers in your films?

ARR: No. Not computers. The technique involved is different. In fact, they say the music in "Roja" was computerised. As I said earlier the recording takes time. You can hear the same flute here in a different way. It is not computerised music. Nearly 40 persons sang 'Veerapandi Kottayile' (a song from "Thiruda Thiruda") that does not sound like computer music. 'Vellai Mazhai' (from "Roja") is sync oriented. I do not restrict the musicians, but ask them to play whatever they feel. Then I record what I want. I spend a lot of time on lyrics too. It takes around four days. We write something in the first instance and then improve.
So it takes about a week to complete a song.

Q: Then you will be working only in perhaps half a dozen films a year?

ARR: What will I do if I work for more films and only a few clicks? I do not want my energy to be wasted. I want every film to be a musical hit. In fact, "Thiruda Thiruda" songs have created a record for any Tamil film - 25,000 discs were sold in Malaysia.
They are going to give us platinum discs.

Q: You say you are choosy, but you also go in for popular songs. Why is it so?

ARR: Different people need different songs. I want to go down to the people at various levels. When I toured Tamil Nadu, I found that people wanted songs that would make them happy. Also nothing vulgar. There is nothing vulgar in "Chikku bukku Chikku bukku raile" [a song from "Gentleman"].

Q: So you want to be with the masses?

ARR: No, rather I want my music to reach everywhere. If I play rock, only youngsters will understand, while older people will say "Why is he shouting like this?" Each category of music reaches only one circle: for the class audience "Thiruda Thiruda" and for the masses "Gentleman".

Q: Does basic knowledge of Carnatic music help?

ARR: Sure. I am learning Carnatic classical music from Dakshinamurthy and Hindustani from Krishnan Nair. I like traditional music a lot.

Q: Why is it that the songs these days go out of people's mind soon unlike the old numbers?

ARR: In those days, the lyrical value was greater in songs.

Q: You want to be called number 1 in the industry?

ARR: No. Numbers are not decided by me, but by the grace of God and by the people. I want my job to be interesting and fun. I just do not want to get stuck again in monotony.


YALGAAR HO!!!!!!
Love ARR

Originally posted by: narumugaye

First off, though not to the point of this thread, the interview itself sounds suspect. The factual inaccuracy aside (Rahman was never associated with Asoka - Anu Malik helmed that venture), some of the statements attributed to him ("...i've dared to introduce new voices...") sound concocted, and very much against his humble and soft-spoken nature. In fact, it sounds exactly like something Anu or HR would say; but that's besides the point and let's get on with the discussion.

Q. Why does a composer sound repetitive?
Mostly perhaps a particular formula works (usually in the short run). And B'wood is ultimately a money-making enterprise, so if it sells, make more of it! Not too different from the films themselves are they? But it could also be due to pressures from the producer or actor (again coming down to commercial considerations). The third reason: maybe he knows no other way!

I think we need clarity on what's being implied by 'repetitive'. Whether it has to do with copying or rehashing earlier numbers - perhaps the most irksome for music lovers. But if it has to do with a particular style of composing, preference for instruments, 'repetitive' may not be the right word. More like the composer's signature - and surely Rahman has a strong signature; extensive use of bass guitars, harmony, string sections, unique sound effects, loops, etc and above-all, enchanting melodies, entrancing rhythms and brilliant sound engineering and mixing. These leitmotifs make Rahman's compositions standout from the morass of Bollywood numbers, and, IMHO, cannot be classified as being repetitive.

Although the interview claims to have Rahman admit to being repetitive, as someone who has listened to him from day one in all the languages he has composed in, while, yes he composed several 'dance numbers' (notably for Prabhu Deva films), they are not copies or rehashes of each other - there exist in them enough variety, experimentation and novelties so as to have only the genre of 'dance numbers' (if there's indeed such a genre!) as a commonality. In recent times (from Taal in 2001 to Rang De Basanti in 2006) I doubt any serious music lover can claim ARR to be repetitive. The contrast with HR, Anu Malik, Pritam, Nadeem-Shravan et al (S-E-L and Vishal-Shekhar excluded for the time being) are stark enough for all to see.

Q. When does a composer sound repetitive?

My guess is when there are time pressures - he signs on several films and sooner or later the work piles up; he may not realize it at the time of composing (caught up with 'completing it somehow' as it is), but the album reaches the listener over a staggered period of time, and they all end up sounding the same. Composers also go through certain phases such as a passing fancy for a certain instrument, sound effect, or rhythm progression, and in their excessive love for it may end up using it across several albums. Again the problem arises because the albums may be released around the same time or across several months - both could lead to claims of being repetitive. It's really a Catch-22 situation. My take on this is for genuine composers to limit themselves 4 - 5 projects a year, tune their compositions strictly to the spirit of the film (hopefully they'll accept only good scripts!) without too much of an eye on commercial success, and be true to themselves. Even the oft-reviled Anu Malik sounded good in films like Asoka, Border and LOC, movies that were relatively stronger in script than the usual B'wood mess.

Q. Do you think ARR is repetitive?
I have spoken about this earlier in this post (a composer's signature, passing phase). My answer is a clear no. But I would also like to add a couple of other aspects: one is of the Raaga used; obviously songs based on the same raaga are bound to share similar refrains. Composers such as ARR (and the greats of the yesteryears) nevertheless manage to make it sound different through innovations such as re-ordering some of the notes or adding a dash of spice from another raag, pitching it differently, and of course, overhauling the structure of the composition. To claim a composer is repetitive because some notes are similar is in all probability, sheer folly.

The other aspect is genre: folk music has several underlying traits that are bound to manifest (indeed has to as that's what lends it its distinct flavour) in all folk songs. Hai Na (Zubeidaa), Mahi Ve (Legend of Bhagat Singh), O Re Chhori (Lagaan) all exhibit several similar traits cos they belong a common genre. So once again, confusing genre with being repetitive is perhaps not apt.

Thanks, nsinha, for initiating this thread!

Yup agree.
I've found quite a few songs by ARR based on Bhairavi & darbari kannada.
Also I notice a no. of synth. modes which are very dear to ARR, just like sea-gull mode was very dear to Pancham (Roland J 6).

I would repeat what Ive said earlier:
there are 3 factors involved in composition:
1. composer's own ability & skills
2. Public taste
3. situation in the film & producer's demand.

I'm curious to note that ARR in the interview hasn't been accused of making synth. based songs, he was quite disturbed by this allegation, and I remember in one live programme in Dubai, Javed Kaffri discussed in quite details that his music invlolves a no. of details & is not repeatitive.

Originally posted by: ummm

Great article Sinhaji, and wonderful feedback from all.

ARR's music has been so intoxicating, ethereal and dazzling, that any rare resemblence of a prior song or tune is overlookable. From Chandralekha (Thiruda Thiruda) , to Dil Se, Taal, Sapney, Rangeela, Roja, Zubeida, Bombay, Lagaan, Saathiya, The legend of Bhagat Singh and other movies, he has been stupendous, original, unorthodox and extremely creative as a composer.

He changed the "typical" way in Indian music was getting composed all along, where vocals (mukhda, stanza) would be separated by an instrumental piece (which would mostly be repititive). The absence of a pattern in his music makes it thrilling and atypical.

Hats off to him! 👏 👏 👏

He should also be credited for bringing a lot of Carnatic music nuances & instruments to Bollywood. I'm sure every instrumentalist will love his music.

Thanks everyone for reading & responding.

Most of the time even the composer doesn't note from where he is getting his inspirations when writting music. It is said that Pancham used to get most of his best tunes in dreams, even then some of his tunes sound similar to each other.

Originally posted by: N Sinha

He should also be credited for bringing a lot of Carnatic music nuances & instruments to Bollywood. I'm sure every instrumentalist will love his music.

Right.. here's another little bit about him. I copied it from some article on him:

A.R. Rahman, being very much religious and totally dedicated to his craft, has a great love for music of different traditions. "Bach", "Beethoven", "Mozart", "Reggae", "Rock" and "Carnatic" music are his first priorities.

A.R. Rahman combined the usage of technology and music. He has been successful in creating his own style of composition by a symbiosis of the best elements of technology and Indian classical instruments. However some critics allege that he makes excessive usage of technology in his music.

Another point worth noting is that while Ilayaraaja brought western music in Indian Instruments, A.R.Rahman pioneered the art of composing Indian classical Carnatic and Hindustani music and using western Instruments to play those tunes.

I think any Music Director, after say 10 - 15 years do sound like they are being repetitive. Probably because:

1. They have a signature sound (created by their choice of instruments and their unique way of creating the harmony)

2. A certain combination of notes may invariably have been used in a different song (considering there are only X number of notes that can be combined to create a song...)

With ARR, I have found No. 1 to be more the case.

I have also seen the same to be the case with IlayaRaja.

i think his compositions r pretty "rare" different which is a good thing.

Originally posted by: qwertyasdfgh

Nice article Sinhaji

I think the musician find themselves trapped in their moulds after certain years of music directing.. that includes greats like Salil chowdhary, Roshan, Madan Mohan, O P Nayyar (the riding horse rhythm).. I admire ARR for his ability to be original when he entered the industry.. over a period of time he has become repetitive... but thats ok as long as he gives good music.. In fact the music for Sathiya... was just superb so was Taal...

Thats a give thing that music directors evolve into a mould and eventually get trapped in their style....

This happens to writers, painters, architects, film makers and just about everybody else. It's difficult to come up with something new again and again.