what makes for a good singer - Page 10

Originally posted by: I know

But you hurt multiple million of their fans by stating the obvious, such comments are unwarranted

You got me wrong buddy. Lata and Aasha were my favorite female play back singers. But now they are not. Simply because they are old and no longer have the magic they once had. Aasha is doing slightly better than Lata. I have a huge collection of both these singers which I regularly listen to. I do not buy any new music at all other than listening on the radio.Creative and classic music was lost after 70's. But still there are good pleasing numbers coming out in the voices of Alka, Kavita, Shreya, etc.The songs that remained etched on one's mind were all that were composed before 70's. All the songs after that were instant hits but soon to be forgotten. In comparison to Lata or Aasha's new songs, the new singers are fresh, youthful and are doing a good job. Eveb an ordinary singer like Roopkumar Rathod sounded better than Lata in the great Madan Mohan's songs in Veer Zaara. THey should leave the stage when we still have good memories of them

You are right. Long time back, when Lata sang "Deedi tera devar diwana" completely off-key, I wondered whether this was the angel who sang "Aaja re pardesi". If she had retired at that time we would not have seen the decline of a nightingale. But she stayed on to sing worse songs and going more and more off-key. What's more, those off-key songs went on to become hits like "Dil to pagal hai" which made true devotees of Lata squirm. In fact, Lata herself wondered why that song became a hit.

I agree COMPLETELY with Dwarkanathji except where he says Lata should stop singing now. She should have stopped singing in 1993, and I could have been spared from hearing "didi tera dever deewana" from loudspeakers and shops for months and months. "From nightingale to crow", that's how her biography could be titled.

Asha's voice too has deteriorated. It's just that she is younger than Lata, so she sang well for some more time. Age has crept into her voice.

Indeed Rafi's "tum bin jaaon kahan" is my favourite too!

I just noticed recently that in "Hum kisi se kam nahin", while Rishi Kapoor keeps singing in Kishore's voice, when it came to singing a qawali, he sings in Rafi's voice!

One thing which keeps bothering me is - did Lata stop Asha from getting good songs? Was it just a rumour? How could she feel threatened by her sister when she herself had such a formidable following?

Yes, I've heard about the "ai mere vatan" controversy. It should have been a duet between Lata and Asha but Lata frowned on that and CR obliged her. I didn't know CR publicly declared his love for Lata. When? Where?

Indeed, Lata's ego is extremely unnerving. But I can't accept that she threatened producers that she would ensure their films flopped. No no. That can't be Lata's style! I am sure one imperious look of hers would have MDs scrambling to do her bidding. That was Lata. Her pure voice and queenly mien would bring every errant MD in line.

Now for Asha. Yes, I admire her tremendously for fighting all odds and making a place for herself. But why on earth was she so dim-witted as to run away with a truck driver???? Frankly, as an elder sister of Asha, I too would have been livid! Asha betrayed an utter lack of responsibility by doing such a thing when her elder sister was working hard to feed the family.

I would love to understand the psyche of these two formidable, strong-willed ladies.

Why didn't Lata understand that she and Asha could co-exist and sing songs for all MDs. Both of them had different voices, equally beautiful. Sheer joy to listen. What was the need for the country's best singers to feel insecure about each other?

There aaye durast aaye!!!!!!

But still shame on them for there pitchale gunah

About Kishore and Rafi

Hats off to you Dwarakanath aapne meri dil o dimagh ki baat cheen li

I think there is more to it about Rafi sahab taking a back step in 70's than Aaradhana. There was this tiff going on between Lata and Rafi Sahab about the royalty payment of a song. Lata's stance was tha a singer must recieve rayalty for as long as that song is sold. I agree but Rafi sahab being a simpleton believed that once a song is recorded and paid for by the Producer of that film, it is done (does not make financial sence to me) but then Rafi was not a buisiness man. and as a result of this difference Lata and Rafi had stopped singing duets for 5/6 years. I wonder if this added to it. This tiff was later resolved and they sang duets together.

I was doing some reserch on the songs being down loaded on a few free web sites. Next to the song there is a count of the numbers of time that song was downloaded and surprisingly the Kishor songs that were once a craze in 70's namely 'Chingari jo koi bhadke' 'Chala jaata hoon' Roop tera mastana' 'Yeh jo muhabbat hai' just to name a few have very few down loads compared to any of Rafi songs be it older or from 70's. My conclusion is that Kishore's songs became a rage for a short period and then lost there luster. Meaning, had no longivity. Between 70/80 a few songs of Rafi still sound as much fresh such as one mentioned by you 'Yeh jo chilman hai' 'Itna to yaad hai mujhe' 'Rang rang ke phool khile'

I also suspect if SD Burman had a secret desire of promoting Kishor over Rafi from a long time but could not do so, since the other MD's of his time believed that Kishor's voice did not fit into the melodies of there creations. That is why he could not garner support from other MD's and limited Kishor to 1 or 2 numbers per film. But in 70's he and his son fulfilled the mission. I dont know I could be wrong.

Dwarakaji said and I quote

About Rafi and Lata -
I do agree that Rafi has scored better in the songs where there are two versions. Rafi does many more harkats, and just the way he pronounces the words are...just out of this world. Case in point - Waadiyan Mera Daman. Just listen to the way Rafi pronounces the word 'Waadiyan' and compare it with how Lata does. There's this thing in music. If 2 singers are singing a duet, the female HAS to sing at a scale one notch higher than the normal to match the male one.

I have heard a few music directors mention that in group songs and duets when both singers sing the same lines at the same time Rafi always made sure that his voice was not overbearing or not a notch above any other singer to maintain the harmony. If you listen to his duets you will notce this phenomenon. Wher as this is not true of other duet singers.

About his pronounciation you have to remeber understanding the language and the poetry is so very important and so is stretching the key word in a perticular line. In waadiyan mera daaman Waadiyan is the key word. Urdu/Panjabi being his mother tounge he had mastery over the language. Lata and other singers had to take lessons in URDU those days. No matter how many lessons you take, not being the mother tongue makes that much difference. And most of the MD's were Urdu speaking and those did not used to use lyricists to help out. It was a team work between MD, Singer, Lyrisist and the director. tunes were given to singers to take home and rehearse. I remeber in one radio talk show Ravi or some other MD sayng that when tunes were given to Rafi he took the song home rehearsed it and came back with Ravis version and a slightly different VARIATION and sang it to Ravi. He liked Rafi's variation and decided to keep both the versions in 2 antras of the same song.

It has often been said in SRGMP "ek achcha singer banne ke liye pehle ek achcha insaan banna zaroori hai". I wonder how much truth is there in this statement! Sounds meaningless to me.

Lata was said to be manipulative and jealous, Kishore was said to be exacting and mean even with close friends. Yet both of them were superb singers and immensely successful. Nice, gentle achche insaan like Talat, Mukesh and others were also superb singers, but not as successful as many others.

It is a fiercely competitive, politicised world out there and simple, unassuming singers are going to be browbeaten thoroughly (unless they find godfathers). SRGMP has ensured that the competition has got even more stressful.

Originally posted by: punjini

It has often been said in SRGMP "ek achcha singer banne ke liye pehle ek achcha insaan banna zaroori hai". I wonder how much truth is there in this statement! Sounds meaningless to me.

Lata was said to be manipulative and jealous, Kishore was said to be exacting and mean even with close friends. Yet both of them were superb singers and immensely successful. Nice, gentle achche insaan like Talat, Mukesh and others were also superb singers, but not as successful as many others.

It is a fiercely competitive, politicised world out there and simple, unassuming singers are going to be browbeaten thoroughly (unless they find godfathers). SRGMP has ensured that the competition has got even more stressful.

I think punjini it's somewhat true. I have met and spoken to some artists- painters, singers. they are so humble. one of them is pankaj udhas. he is so polite and down to earth. some are sort of eccentric. but I think most of them are quite nice. may be because they just concentrate on their work rather than get into stupid things. But, yes, lot of them avoid people. as far talat and mukesh are concerned, they were very very successful.

Originally posted by: adwarakanath

You won't get a person more eccentric than Kishoreda! 😆 😆

There's this story of him -

He had a sign hung on his door - Beware of Kishore.
One producer pissed off kishoreda real bad by holding outstanding payments. Kishoreda was known to be a stickler for payment. Pehle payment, phir gaana. The producer came home, KKda did all the formalities etc...while he was about to go, KKda took hold of his hand and bit hard! When the petrified producer asked why, KKda pointed to the sign on the door 😆

😆

Originally posted by: adwarakanath

Whoa, my head's reeling from all this discussion. I should really search for my favourite threads, otherwise they get dumped beneath piles of Vote Vinit, Vote Debo rubbish.

Okay, here's my take. Just my opinion.

About Kishore and Rafi
I was just having this conversation in PM with Musicpulseji, about this one. Observe, Rafi was RDB's mainstay till Aradhana happened. And then he shifted loyalty. I have an article with me where he's gone on to say that Kishore was the best male singer ever in the Industry. Isn't that too much? I mean, you need to demonstrate your prowess, versatility, and technique. Where did Kishore ever do that? Can you imagine a Dil Jo Na Keh Saka or a Yeh Jo Chilman Hai or a Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dhare in Kishoreda's voice? I would like to disagree with ther person who said that Tum Bin Jaon Kahan belonged to Kishoreda. I liked Rafi's version infintely more. Maybe because I am a Rafi fan first. But let me tell you, I used to be a HARDCORE Kishoreda/Mannada fan until 2 years ago. Then I discovered the magic of Rafi Saab. I am a total convert. Incidentally, the above mentioned song had a lot to do with it.
Let us see where Rafi lost out. In the 70s, the Rock Era had well and truly set in. The youth wanted new, faster sounds. The carefully crafted, finesse of Rafi, Mannada, Talat etc lost favour with the youth. They didn't care for the grandoise...they wanted the beats and sounds of the west. RDB found Kishoreda was the only one who could do justice. I'd say he was wrong. Listen to Gulabi Aankehin, Aise Na The Hum etc, An Evening in Paris..etc. Show me one song Rafi saab couldn't do. It is all a question of spinning money. Kishoreda simply attracted more crowds. That's it. Reading between the lines, there's a bad game that can be made out, in the film industry. Poor Rafi and Asha were straightforward scapegoats.

I agree.. you are mind blowing (dil se..not HR type mind blowing)