DONT lose interest in RAMAYAN

sabydeep thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#1
Friends as interpreted from 'THE DOUBTS AND DICUSSIONS on RAMAYAN' and the topic that 'RAMAYANA is getting boring' , i feel that many of u r under the impression that THE LAV-KUSH TRACK IS GETTING DEVIATED from VALMIKI RAMAYAN and hence u r losing interest in the serial.

BUT friend believe me that being to BARODA,i have seen with how much care and hardwork the episodes r being shooted.even for a 5 minute scene ,there is 5-6 times take.SHOOTING continues late night till 2:00 pm-3:00pm and again starts in morning around 9-9:30.all these hard work r done for the sake of audience.and as far as the matter of deviation of story goes,RAMAYANA is not just following the VALMIKI version bcz it is too short.At the beginning when they show the sources of RAMAYAN,they mention abt the writings of authors and poets from where RAMAYANA has been influenced.Besides they also follow the popular folk tales and JATAK KATHAYEIN.Since there r so many versions,may be we r not familiar with the stories from all versions and hence we r considering the stories 2 be fictional.Even GURMEETJI and DEBINAJI also told that the stories are incorporated from various sources and none of them r fictional.

So friends ,as we r all lovers of RAMAYAN,its my request 2 all of u that pls do watch the serial with the same interest as previous bcz it will help us 2 enhance our knowledge abt many unknown facts abt our great epic

Edited by sabydeep - 16 years ago

Created

Last reply

Replies

36

Views

2.8k

Users

11

Likes

2

Frequent Posters

sabydeep thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#2
THE kids playing LAV-KUSH r very hard working and sincere in their work.RISHABH is in class 5 and PERIN in 4.BEing such small kids ,but their sincerity and hard work is worthy appraisal.

When i wnt 2 BARODA,the temp there was around 45-46. even in such a hot weather i saw them shooting for so long hrs.Based on the episodes ,the shooting gets divided into 2-3 units and i saw them just running from one unit to another 2 complete their shots .BECAUSE THE ENTIRE DAY'S EPISODE IS SHOT IN A SINGLE DAY.besides the also have 2 shoot for promos.

so we should appreciate their hard work and also pay equal attention to the episodes focussed on them

Vr15h thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail IPL 2024 Participants Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 16 years ago
#3

Sabydeep

I for one appreciate the work that everyone is doing, and afaik, not one person has ever questioned the commitment or the acting capabilities of any of the actors in the serial. Thanks for sharing the details of their work schedule.

However, since we aren't discussing here Jyoti or Bandini, the story we see does have a major impact on whether we continue to enjoy it or not. There are several other channels, and competing for attention are several other shows (not to mention the IPL). All of us are familiar with the original, and when we see serious distortions of what we know and hold sacred, people cannot blame us for not taking seriously the show. At the end of the day, what we see is the Ramayan - not Debina rehearsing, not Rishab & Perin practicing their lines, not Vikram Sharma practicing his stunts, the rishis simulating an yagna, et al. What we see is the end product that's shown, and how we judge it will be on the front end, not the back end. This sounds harsh, but that's how it always is in the real world: people always judge based on the end results, rather than the efforts and processes put into a task.

Everybody has noted that the acting is great, and the popularity of the fan clubs is testimonial to that. However, unless the acting is singularly bad, how one acts is secondary to whether the story in question is properly represented. As an example, in the previous Ramayan serial, some of the acting was atrocious, such as the Vanaras getting down instead of falling when hit with rakshas arrows. However, because that serial largely followed the script, it was very highly acclaimed.

No offense to you, Gurmeet or anybody, but it is highly disingenuous to call any of the sources other than Valmiki authentic, since Valmiki's was a contemporaneous work, whereas the others all came thousands of years later - many of them during the Gupta period, if I recall right, and the vernacular versions, like Tulsidas and Kamban, during the Moghul period. If those are authentic, then I could write a Ramayan out of whole cloth, and demand that it be called authentic. It is interesting to know these various versions, and sometimes incorporate things from them that doesn't contradict Valmiki, but not to the point where they drive the serial, as is clearly the case here. An example: in Valmiki, Kush & Luv were clearly mortals with no special martial or other abilities, except for very melodious singing voices, with which they made history. In the serial, they do everything short of showing them as superman. Creating myths about these 2 kids just because they were Rama & Sita's kids does no good, and in fact, plays into the hands of those who consider the Ramayan fictional and a fairy tale. Incidentally, what sort of an excuse is 'it is too precise?' Since when is precise a bad thing?

I watch the serial the same way I stop by next to a car wreck - it's fascinating to watch. But I'm not enjoying it the way I did previously. Previously, what they had was largely accurate, although they sometimes threw in very outlandish variations, like Bharat being wounded in battle, Lakshman killing Shambri, Kaikeyi ordering Sumantra to get Yudhajit to invade Lanka, et al. But those things then were few and far between. Now, in this 'Uttarkand', we are being treated overwhelmingly to fiction, and and the only thing they have got right in this stretch is Sita giving birth to Kush & Luv.

I didn't and wouldn't suggest to anyone that they stop watching the serial, and if Gurmeet, Debina, et al are benefiting from us watching it, the last thing I'd want would be for that to be interrupted. However, given what they are now showing, it's a little much to expect people who know better to take it seriously. I'd definitely not recommend it to anybody who's using it to enhance his/her knowledge!

Edited by Chandraketu - 16 years ago
ananyacool thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Engager Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#4
Thanks Sabydeep for conveying this. Yes the actors really work very hard and as always we commend for the efforts they undertake.
Please don't think that if we criticize the serial it doesn't necessarily mean that we are criticizing the actors or questioning their commitment towards their work.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

In the serial, they do everything short of showing them as superman. Creating myths about these 2 kids just because they were Rama & Sita's kids does no good, and in fact, plays into the hands of those who consider the Ramayan fictional and a fairy tale. Incidentally, what sort of an excuse is 'it is too precise?' Since when is precise a bad thing?

Very much agree with you. Its clearly an excuse if ,on this basis Valmiki Ramayan is being ignored. K-L are not just being portrayed as superman types but are extolled like gods, because they're Ramji's sons?
Sagars should know that how much of the viewers know Uttarkand thoroughly?? Given that very less of the audience doesn't know properly ,isn't it their responsibility to make the show reasonable and accurate? an ardent viewer of the serial clearly knows that how much this show is lacking consistency and its not the same as before😔
Even now there's no hint of Lavanasur and the duel between him n Shatrughna , which is one of the definitive chapters of Uttarkand.
Edited by ananyacool - 16 years ago
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Achiever Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 16 years ago
#5
Sabydeep,
I think Chandraketu summed it up pretty well. We certainly appreciate the effort Gurmeet, Debina, Rishab, Perin, and the others are putting in👏, and we really admire their great acting skills, because sometimes, the actors themselves are the only thing which motivates us to continue the serial.
However, one thing I was confused at was: how is Valmiki Ramayan short?😕 I consider it one of the longest versions of Ramayans we have, and if directors of serials actually follow it scene for scene, it would be one heck of a serial with more than 300 episodes.
Usually, either Valmiki Ramayan or Tulsidas Ramcharitmanas (and sometimes Kamban Ramayan) are taken as the main sources when Ramayan mythologicals or movies are made, and though directors certainly use scenes from other versions, most don't use scenes which highly go against these versions, like Sita taking up exile herself, Luv Kush fighting rakshasas (which never happened as far as I know😕), Lakshman trying to kill himself when he has a pregnant wife back home, etc. We audience don't mind scenes from other versions as long as it's not too controversial, but when scenes from other versions overlap Valmiki or Tulsidas, giving them more importance than Valmiki or Tulsidas Ramayan, that's when the audience becomes bored and loses interest in the serial, no matter how hard the actors are working.
That's because we've all grown up listening to stories from Valmiki Ramayan or Ramcharitmanas from our parents and grandparents. These stories, like Ram exiling Sita though he had complete trust in her chastity, are ingraved in our minds since a very young age and when we see Sita taking up exile, we get confused and cautious about everything else they're showing.
It's really great that you went to Baroda and met Gurmeet, Debina, and the others😃. If you ever get the chance again, tell them that we really appreciate and love their acting. However, unless the story is shown better, I'm doubtful that we'll be more interested.
desichica thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Commentator Level 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#6
Agreeed with Chandra, Ananya, and Lalita!!!! Your right though sabydeep...we know that all the actors put an immense effort to their characters...but like Ananya said...Sagars know how much their viewers, esp younger ones have immense knowledge on the Uttar Khand....its best if they showed it properly vs. showing LK in Godly manner!!!!!
Let's see how the future track upholds...i'm pretty sure Sagars do visit our forum...and if they read wut we think they shud do something to keep their viewers happy too...it def will bring Ramayan to better heights pre Uttar Khand!!!!
So worry not Sabydeep!!!
Vr15h thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail IPL 2024 Participants Thumbnail + 6
Posted: 16 years ago
#7

_LJ_

You read 'precise' as 'consize'? Precise means accurate, which is what one would hope the story would strive to be. Concise means abbreviated.

I read Sabydeep as precise being precise. How exactly did you read him as saying consize?🤓

Khalrika thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#8
Actually, I agree with Saby. Sorry folks if u feel otherwise!

Chandra, about the different versions:

Adbhuta Ramayan was supposed to have been authored by Valmiki himself. Also, Adhyatma Ramayan is said to be authored by Ved Vyas. Tulsidasji was highly influenced by Adhyatma Ramayan.

If u read the different versions, all authors after Valmiki modified the Ramayan to fit 2 things:

1. the soci-political aspect of their time
2. their own creativity and levels of their own bhakthi
3. dramatic effect

Most of the writers of the Ramayan, from what I am reading, seem to be great Vishnu bakhts. They are not just writing for the sake of writing fiction. Many of the translations seem to be very beautiful poetry and verse, coming from the heart as it were. It is not the ramblings of people who just want to write fiction.
When I was reading some of the poetry translated into English, I was sad that I did not know Sanskrit to read all the verses in the original. It was that beautiful.

Soci-political changes:

Many later poets changed the Ramayan to fit the mood of the society they were living in. For examples, Kamb Ramyan has Ravan lifting the whole kutiya with Sita inside it and placing it on the Pushpak viman. There is a reason for this change. People in the South are more conservative than people up North. Now, don't howl because I am going to explain that remark. In the north, it is okay to put a friendly arm around friends and relatives without people looking at u weird. My dad is from Delhi so don't get upset. I still have uncles and other relatives in Delhi. (My mom is from Chennai and I have seen both sides). I am not trying to be rude but trying to explain the changes made by the poets.

U can see that in Bollywood movies too. U will find the heroine putting a friendly arm around her jeejaji. U do that in the South (even today) and people will give u very weird looks. This is what I meant by being very conservative. So, Maharishi Kamb did not have Ravan touching Sita like he does in Valmiki. He has Ravan lifting the whole kutiya instead to please the South Indian conservative sensibilities. Because Sita is a pati-vrata, she cannot be touched even if she was not at fault, by another man. So Kamban changes it for socio-political reasons.
Valmiki has no such problem and he has Sita defending being touched by Ravan, during the agni-pravesha scene after the battle, saying she was unconscious and it was not her fault because she was also defenseless.

Similar changes are made by the Ramayan versions from South-East Asia like Indonesia, Bali, Malaysia, and other places.

Creativity and level of Bhakthi:

Many poets were great bakhts of Krishna and they have Ramji doing many things that Krishna did.
Kumaradasa who wrote Janakiharana was also a great bhakht who changed the story because he did not want Sita to say those very harsh words to Lakshman when she asks him to go in search of Rama after hearing the voice of Marica shouting for help in Ramji's voice.

This is not because they were making things up but many of these authors saw Ramji and Sitaji as avatars of Vishnu and Mahalakshmi only. Valmiki, on the other hand, treats both of them as examples of perfect humans even though he does mention here and there that Ramji is an avatar of Narayana. However, u don't get too much of the bhakthi bhav when reading Valmiki. It is very beautiful work but I do not get the bhakti bahv too much when reading Valmiki as I do when I am reading Tulsidasji. Many poets used their creativity to fit the Ramayan to their level of bhakthi.

Dramatic Effect:

Many of the writers like Bhavabooti were dramatistst. The Ramayan was changed to fit the stage. Therefore it needed to have over-the-top special effects and creative things for the sake of drama. Many Sanskrit scholars including western scholars think Bhavabooti was a great dramatist. In fact, many of them are singing his praises when he introduced the technique of the alter ego coming out of the person to talk.

In Bhavabooti's Uttara kand, Sita's alter ego Vasanthi comes out and argues with Rama on the justice of sending Sita away when she is pregnant. This is considered a great dramatic technique by many scholars of Sanskrit literature, Indian and western.

Sagars showed this scene from Bhavabooti when Sita's alter ego talks to Sita herself about a wife's duty when she comes to know of the gossip about her in Kosala.

Of course, I am able to appreciate the change if the changes done by the poet were done well. So, it all comes down to the skill of the poet. If the poet is not very good and not very skilled then the changes come weird. Then the changes, while reading it, does not make you go .

Sagars' Uttar kand should be viewed in the same way, IMHO. Is it logical and does it flow well or does it make u go ? Strictly IMHO, many episodes (even if they are changed) are very well done. Some episodes make me want to go .

Overall, I am enjoying the Uttarkand (even with the changes). It is well acted, well directed, great songs, costumes, make-up, and sets. I am willing to go along with the changes and episodes taken from different versions as long a it follows logical thinking. I get upset only if logic is not followed. Views are strictly IMHO, of course!




Edited by Khalrika - 16 years ago
Mallika113 thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 16 years ago
#9
I agree with Chandra, Lalitha, Ananya, and Desichica that the story has to be more real than what they are showing right now. I understand that they are using various versions, but like Chandra says why change a good and precise thing if that's what the viewers want. Their ratings will prove that we are right. After all it's the viewers' choice, isn't it? So why not go back to the formula that is a sure thing than something that the viewers are not familiar with. We are still waiting for the fight between Lavanasur and Shatrughan, which was supposed to have happened when Luv-Kush were born!!

Saby, we all love Gurmeet and Debina and the whole cast. Our fanclubs prove that devotion. We def know that they are working hard and putting their best efforts, but story is part of the program. Not just the actors. As far as watching the show, I myself will continue to watch, but the enthusiasm is not there as much as before the uttarkand. Many people that I know have stopped watching this part of the show. So what to do, the Sagars have to re-evaluate the situation, and correct it "shigra ati shigra" or they will lose more viewers.

Do let Gurmeet and Debina know that we still love them regardless of how the story goes. But the viewership part is in Sagar's hands!!
Khalrika thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: _LalithaJanaki_

Sabydeep,

I think Chandraketu summed it up pretty well. We certainly appreciate the effort Gurmeet, Debina, Rishab, Perin, and the others are putting in👏, and we really admire their great acting skills, because sometimes, the actors themselves are the only thing which motivates us to continue the serial.
However, one thing I was confused at was: how is Valmiki Ramayan short?😕 I consider it one of the longest versions of Ramayans we have, and if directors of serials actually follow it scene for scene, it would be one heck of a serial with more than 300 episodes.
Usually, either Valmiki Ramayan or Tulsidas Ramcharitmanas (and sometimes Kamban Ramayan) are taken as the main sources when Ramayan mythologicals or movies are made, and though directors certainly use scenes from other versions, most don't use scenes which highly go against these versions, like Sita taking up exile herself, Luv Kush fighting rakshasas (which never happened as far as I know😕), Lakshman trying to kill himself when he has a pregnant wife back home, etc. We audience don't mind scenes from other versions as long as it's not too controversial, but when scenes from other versions overlap Valmiki or Tulsidas, giving them more importance than Valmiki or Tulsidas Ramayan, that's when the audience becomes bored and loses interest in the serial, no matter how hard the actors are working.
That's because we've all grown up listening to stories from Valmiki Ramayan or Ramcharitmanas from our parents and grandparents. These stories, like Ram exiling Sita though he had complete trust in her chastity, are ingraved in our minds since a very young age and when we see Sita taking up exile, we get confused and cautious about everything else they're showing.
It's really great that you went to Baroda and met Gurmeet, Debina, and the others😃. If you ever get the chance again, tell them that we really appreciate and love their acting. However, unless the story is shown better, I'm doubtful that we'll be more interested.



Actually, Tulsidasji was greatly influenced by Adhyatma Ramayan. 😃

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".