Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#10/DT Nt Pg#41 - Page 74

Below is the section from Mahabharata Shishupal vadha Parva about Krishna Balrama visiting baby Shishupal from Dwarka

And though the child was placed upon the laps of a thousand kings, one after another, yet that which the incorporeal voice had said came not to pass. And having heard of all this at Dwaravati, the mighty Yadava heroes Sankarshana and Janarddana also went to the capital of the Chedis, to see their father's sister--that daughter of the Yadavas (the queen of Chedi) And saluting everybody according to his rank and the king and queen also, and enquiring after every body's welfare, both Rama and Kesava took their seats. And after those heroes had been worshipped, the queen with great pleasure herself placed the child on the lap of Damodara.

Interesting discussions! This timeline thingy is really confusing. Also is it true that Pradyumna was actually Kamdev in his previous birth and the woman who raised him was actually Kamdev's wife Rati (I think) so he kinda got married to his foster mother?

I think everyone was over 100 years old when the Mahabharata war took place.

People I just found this thread on Twitter from Vedic Wisdom. This is regarding the same topic Madri and her Sati/death about which we were discussing the other day.

According to him Madri is completely an interpolation and she didn't exist at all. In fact that reminds me in Garhwali folklores Kunti is the only wife of Pandu and the mother of all five. Please check this one and share your views

https://twitter.com/VedicWisdom1/status/1274336750056296449?s=19

Originally posted by: Life_Is_Dutiful

Interesting discussions! This timeline thingy is really confusing. Also is it true that Pradyumna was actually Kamdev in his previous birth and the woman who raised him was actually Kamdev's wife Rati (I think) so he kinda got married to his foster mother?

I think everyone was over 100 years old when the Mahabharata war took place.

See if we take it religiously anything is possible. Then Ram could have ruled for 14k years. And maybe Shishupal became an adult the moment Krishna Balram left( not written anywhere am just making fancy stories) just like Pradyumna became an adult at birth

That however wouldn't be possible if we take things historically. Historically it has to be different and we need to analyse how things might go

Coming to Chhedi and Shishupal, without divinity it couldn't be possible that Shishupal's extra limbs would have fallen off at the cite of Krishna. That entire prophecy thing seems highly improbable to me. In that case if still Krishna's aunt had asked Krishna to spare her son, then the only reason could be that she foresaw some enimity between the two. I therefore think that unlike what texts state, Shishupal wasn't a newborn/infant when Krishna Balram visited Chhedi, he would have been in his preteens then and would have been indecent towards them and that's why Krishna was retaliating against him when the aunt intervened and asked for sparing of his life

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

See if we take it religiously anything is possible. Then Ram could have ruled for 14k years. And maybe Shishupal became an adult the moment Krishna Balram left( not written anywhere am just making fancy stories) just like Pradyumna became an adult at birth

That however wouldn't be possible if we take things historically. Historically it has to be different and we need to analyse how things might go

Coming to Chhedi and Shishupal, without divinity it couldn't be possible that Shishupal's extra limbs would have fallen off at the cite of Krishna. That entire prophecy thing seems highly improbable to me. In that case if still Krishna's aunt had asked Krishna to spare her son, then the only reason could be that she foresaw some enimity between the two. I therefore think that unlike what texts state, Shishupal wasn't a newborn/infant when Krishna Balram visited Chhedi, he would have been in his preteens then and would have been indecent towards them and that's why Krishna was retaliating against him when the aunt intervened and asked for sparing of his life

I completely agree.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

People I just found this thread on Twitter from Vedic Wisdom. This is regarding the same topic Madri and her Sati/death about which we were discussing the other day.

According to him Madri is completely an interpolation and she didn't exist at all. In fact that reminds me in Garhwali folklores Kunti is the only wife of Pandu and the mother of all five. Please check this one and share your views

https://twitter.com/VedicWisdom1/status/1274336750056296449?s=19

As is common, this is half-baked analysis. First of all, Pandu raped Madri and died as a result. Whether it was some health issue which killed him is debatable. Or it could've been Madri herself, and she commited sati to avoid repercussions for the children.

Secondly, interpolations usually happen for a reason. The na aham varamayi sutam is considered an interpolation. It was put there to justify Karna. Most people can see that. I have a reason for believing (as did Bankim Chandra) polyandry is an interpolation. The reason behind it would be to justify the Arjuna winning/Yudhishtira marrying issue, along with the clear soft corner Arjuna/Bheema had for bhabhi.

But Madri? She is such a minor character that I cannot think of one reason anyone would want to add her. Even with Shalya's importance in war, they didn't need her as interpolation.

Re: sati. I do agree with the tweets vedas didn't promote sati. It was a societal practice, camouflaged as religious practice. Happens even now. Religion is the best defense against any accusations of crime.

What I dislike are the idiotic remarks it was brought by the West. Dumbass comment when it was there in the Middle Ages, partly as response to invaders from Central Asia, partly because of inheritance issues. For ex: when inheritance rules in Bengal were changed to include women, sati actually increased!

And there are responses to that thread which are clearly bigoted, with comments about reservation class, etc.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

People I just found this thread on Twitter from Vedic Wisdom. This is regarding the same topic Madri and her Sati/death about which we were discussing the other day.

According to him Madri is completely an interpolation and she didn't exist at all. In fact that reminds me in Garhwali folklores Kunti is the only wife of Pandu and the mother of all five. Please check this one and share your views

https://twitter.com/VedicWisdom1/status/1274336750056296449?s=19

I don't think that the tweet says that Madri herself is an interpolation. It says that the Sati of Madri is an interpolation.

That depends on what we consider as Sati.

1) Sati means suicide in the funeral pyre of husband: From the references given in the tweet it is clear that Madri did not kill herself in the funeral pyre of Pandu.

2) Sati means suicide following the death of husband: Madri committed suicide following Pandu's death, it is true. There are many possible reasons for it.

Madri's suicide alone does not prove that the practice of following your husband to afterworld was there in MB times. But it was Kunti who first mentioned it.

So in my opinion the practice was there. Suicide is usually considered a sin but suicide following husband's death was not. That does not mean the practice was encouraged.

Originally posted by: vyapti

SORRY...To be edited.

I don't think that the tweet says that Madri herself is an interpolation. It says that the Sati of Madri is an interpolation.

That depends on what we consider as Sati.

1) Sati means killing yourself in the funeral pyre of your husband: From the references given in the tweet it is clear that Madri did not kill herself in the funeral pyre of Pandu.

Not sure it seemed to me that he is saying Madri is an interpolation. .

But anyhow either of the portions need to be an interpolation. It can't be that she committed Sati and then their bodies were brought to Hastinapur unharmed.

Either Madri committed Sati or their bodies were taken to Hastinapur. For some reasons I think former is more plausible the latter portion could have been added to show how much respect was given to the dead bodies of Pandu Madri like royal last rites (thereby strengtning the Pandavas claim onto the throne) just my view though

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

As is common, this is half-baked analysis. First of all, Pandu raped Madri and died as a result. Whether it was some health issue which killed him is debatable. Or it could've been Madri herself, and she commited sati to avoid repercussions for the children.

Secondly, interpolations usually happen for a reason. The na aham varamayi sutam is considered an interpolation. It was put there to justify Karna. Most people can see that. I have a reason for believing (as did Bankim Chandra) polyandry is an interpolation. The reason behind it would be to justify the Arjuna winning/Yudhishtira marrying issue, along with the clear soft corner Arjuna/Bheema had for bhabhi.

But Madri? She is such a minor character that I cannot think of one reason anyone would want to add her. Even with Shalya's importance in war, they didn't need her as interpolation.

Re: sati. I do agree with the tweets vedas didn't promote sati. It was a societal practice, camouflaged as religious practice. Happens even now. Religion is the best defense against any accusations of crime.

What I dislike are the idiotic remarks it was brought by the West. Dumbass comment when it was there in the Middle Ages, partly as response to invaders from Central Asia, partly because of inheritance issues. For ex: when inheritance rules in Bengal were changed to include women, sati actually increased!

And there are responses to that thread which are clearly bigoted, with comments about reservation class, etc.

The main issue with assuming that there was no Sati of Madri is that there is no mention of how she died if not while committing Sati. While the death of Pandu is clear, it's only the dead body of Madri we encounter if we exclude the portions of Sati. I therefore can't completely ignore the Sati probability unless Madri herself was an interpolation.

Coming to your second point about reasons of interpolation, there is an instance of beef having been prepared in Rishi Shaunak ashram when Ugrashrawa visited them, this verse isn't the part of main CE and they feel it was an interpolation. Now you could yourself think what benefit would an beef preparation episode do? Yet it was interpolated. Again the details of Dravidian kings seems an interpolation same as the visit of the king of Tripura, so I wouldn't say that interpolation only happened because of some use.

Aside if it wasn't permissible for a woman to have more than 4 partners excluding her husband and Kunti actually bore all five of them(excluding Karna) then definitely she had at least 5 partners excluding her husband, and thereby becomes a bad character woman as per the standards of those days so to save her respect an interpolation of a second wife who gave birth to two of them of them does become important

Although I myself don't think that Madri could be an interpolation but that could be a way to look at it.

About the Sati part, while undoubtedly Jauhar was something that started with invasions, attributing Sati to invasion is nothing but a sense a false pride that we were great and stayed in utopia until some outsiders destroyed us

You wouldn't believe I actually came across a person who said there is nothing as preVedic because Vedic verses have been existent since eternity. When I asked if that was the case why is Manu, Mandhaata, Divodasa etc. Mentioned as humans of past the response was that a adharmi like me can never understand the Vedas

There was another claim that Sreemad Bhagwatam is millions years old

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

The main issue with assuming that there was no Sati of Madri is that there is no mention of how she died if not while committing Sati. While the death of Pandu is clear, it's only the dead body of Madri we encounter if we exclude the portions of Sati. I therefore can't completely ignore the Sati probability unless Madri herself was an interpolation.

Coming to your second point about reasons of interpolation, there is an instance of beef having been prepared in Rishi Shaunak ashram when Ugrashrawa visited them, this verse isn't the part of main CE and they feel it was an interpolation. Now you could yourself think what benefit would an beef preparation episode do? Yet it was interpolated. Again the details of Dravidian kings seems an interpolation same as the visit of the king of Tripura, so I wouldn't say that interpolation only happened because of some use.

Aside if it wasn't permissible for a woman to have more than 4 partners excluding her husband and Kunti actually bore all five of them(excluding Karna) then definitely she had at least 5 partners excluding her husband, and thereby becomes a bad character woman as per the standards of those days so to save her respect an interpolation of a second wife who gave birth to two of them of them does become important

Although I myself don't think that Madri could be an interpolation but that could be a way to look at it.

About the Sati part, while undoubtedly Jauhar was something that started with invasions, attributing Sati to invasion is nothing but a sense a false pride that we were great and stayed in utopia until some outsiders destroyed us

You wouldn't believe I actually came across a person who said there is nothing as preVedic because Vedic verses have been existent since eternity. When I asked if that was the case why is Manu, Mandhaata, Divodasa etc. Mentioned as humans of past the response was that a adharmi like me can never understand the Vedas

There was another claim that Sreemad Bhagwatam is millions years old

🤣💔

Typical fanboy-fangirl (nibba-nibbi) mentality.