25 Oct Ja-Jo -Jodha-This day devoted to her and for her!!! - Page 9

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sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#81
Lashy dear,

I saw this just now, and as I have to go out, I will send this brief response now If I do post something tomorrow, it will be called I stands for Integrity. Let me explain why.

To my mind, nothing of what Jodha or Jalal does in this episode is dependent on the current state of their relationship. It is solely a question of the personal integrity of each of them. Jalal would have called her hamari Jodha Begum in any case, for that is what she is. Remember what he tells Mahaam in that quasi-soliloquy about ek hi kashti mein sawaar? She is his legally wedded wife, and so is entitled to all the public and private respect that goes with that positon.

As for her, she defends him because of her sense of right and wrong is always very clear. She knows that he is a man of his word, and so she backs him by saying that HE did not give this promise. It need have nothing to do with a greater understanding of what it means to be an emperor. In fact I am pretty sure it does not.

Secondly, her stand against the demand for the durg has nothing to do with anything she feels for Jalal, any more that Pratap's identical reaction has. She thinks such extortionate and improper demands are disgraceful, and she says so.

There is nothing new in her opposing her own family. She did it even for Abdul, remember? She marches to the sound of her own drummer. So do both Jalal and Pratap.

So, I do not see any need for even such clever scenes as you have thought up, for to my mind, there is nothing to bridge.

In fact, I am tired of all this parsing in 9 columns, my dear, which is all the more pointless as the character graph oscillates wildly from episode to episode, as far as the Jalal-Jodha equations are concerned. See Jodha on Wednesday and then the next day! It was bizarre, the 180 degree swing in her attitude towards him, so how can you calibrate her by putting down what she realises when? It is not as though they are building her up as a thoughtful, patient and perceptive human being.

But their sense of personal integrity is a constant. It is like the difference between those grossly misleading promos and a precap.

So the answer to your closing question is No, you are not wrong, but these scenes, though charming add ons, would not be really needed.

I do not know if this makes sense to you; I hope it does!

Shyamala Aunty

PS: The Dhawalgarh Raja looks like a character out of Ratatouille. There is something very ratlike about his face.

Fine aunty, I'll post it here then...
Do you think that from the last encounter of Ja-Jo i.e. the Kumkum episode where one would consider their relationship to be nothing more than mildly flirtatious - the jump to him openly declaring her in court as 'apni begum' and Jodha confidently taking his side in front of her parents was very sudden? Do you think a transitional scene in between would have helped? Are you satisfied?
How would it have looked had there been a brief scene in between? Maybe, when Jodha returns to her room after the welcome ceremonies to doubly check her kumkum was fine (after being made budhu by Jalal) and by chance her glances falls on the other Shahi Pagdi resting on a dresser. Her thoughts now are less antagonistic and more genial. She reflects on her changing relationship with the Shehenshah - the past few scenes, especially AFTER those arguments of theirs where she'd told him that she had NO ANSWER for his questions!
Maybe she reflects on his questions...maybe something to show that Jo had a brief flash of realization that being the Shehenshah was not a cake-walk indeed - something she'd refused to acknowledge?
Then, when she returns to court and this dowry thing unfolds - Jalal announces that decision. Then, it makes it look even more understandable that Jo realizes his stance.

The scene was spectacular no doubt - but, I find its these little connecting sequences/justifications that this serial lacks...that's why not only do some scenes feel rushed or not fully done, but also character changes require us to ransack our brains more than other serials would!
Please tell me I'm wrong...😳

I am not sure I will be doing one, my dear, as almost anything I would have wanted to say has probably been covered one way or the other, and there is no sense in my making the same points in different language. But let me see.

Autumn_Rose thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#82

I don't see her defending him as 'love' as well... its just that she knows him better now and her relationship with him is more friendly. Similar is the case with Jalal.. I don't think jalal will punish jodha if she blames shareef and adham.. He may think that she has some MU.. he knows she is not a liar and is good at heart.
Heeralicious thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#83
Awesome Post !! Well analysed !! Loved my Jodha and jalal today!! Good One Lashy..👏
lashy thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#84
Thanks aunty...Yes, it did answer my questions - though, I still do feel that transitioning and letting viewers into the sequences/character changes is possibly where the CVs lack the most!😊

Originally posted by: Autumn_Rose


I don't see her defending him as 'love' as well... its just that she knows him better now and her relationship with him is more friendly. Similar is the case with Jalal.. I don't think jalal will punish jodha if she blames shareef and adham.. He may think that she has some MU.. he knows she is not a liar and is good at heart.


I didn't meant it was love at all...but, never have they shown Jo ever recalling, mulling upon or summarizing anything that Jalal has done for/against her...anything that he's told her...
If only, we could get a better view as to what's in HER mind - does she understand him...if so, when? how? on Wednesday, it didn't seem like she understood him at all...even when he was only speaking about his responsibilities as a Shehenshah...
As for the answer aunty gave about personal integrity - if it was only the dowry/durg fort issue she was talking about I'd understand...however, there were many other statements she made like 'If Shehenshah has said that he has given his word, it means he has' etc etc which shows she has understood his nature somewhat - only we've never been shown those aspects...and why?
They would make for much sensible scenes, wouldn't they - showing her inner battles/turmoils? They'd make us empathize with her far more too! They'd make her appear more human!

Its quite confusing - I think the CVs themselves are not sure...so they take the tracks and play with the scenes as it comes by...😊
Super Kool thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#85

Originally posted by: lashy

As for the answer aunty gave about personal integrity - if it was only the dowry/durg fort issue she was talking about I'd understand...however, there were many other statements she made like 'If Shehenshah has said that he has given his word, it means he has' etc etc which shows she has understood his nature somewhat - only we've never been shown those aspects...and why?
They would make for much sensible scenes, wouldn't they - showing her inner battles/turmoils? They'd make us empathize with her far more too! They'd make her appear more human!


@ bold- true...

Yes, her defense had nothing to do with love for jalal...they are miles away from that point...she started her arguement with 'shehensha wants this marriage to happen...he has taken all pains for this marriage to happen as smoothly as possible...he always keeps his words...''and, that's what has surprised me...she is generally the first one to jump guns and doubt shehensha's intention deliberately ignoring all his good gestures and actions...the confidence with which she spoke forced me to sit up and take notice...as I have said before...he has lived upto each promise he has made...jodha knows this way too well...religion, conjugal rights etc etc etc...she never acknowledged it...that acknowledgment came yesterday...I also agree with the personal integrity part...it was definitely there...the difference was...it was not just about hers...yesterday it was also about shehensha's integrity...


Cvs do not give scenes where jodha is reflecting on what has happened till date etc etc...because they want her to come back to ghrina mode as per their convinience...and that's scary...
Edited by Super Kool - 11 years ago
Mallika-E-Bhais thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#86
@Shyama Aunty: Am not surprised you're Tamilian! Though I took you to be Bengali for some reason 😕

Strange coincidence.. Am doing Law from Poona. 😊
abhi786 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#87
The Episode belonged to Jodha... She supported and his decision not to give the Fort before her family members even though it will effect suakanya wedding, but she told take war or leave mandap...

Jodha was worried first time Jalaal was being cheated and he gets the truth from the precap.. Trying to set the wedding clearing the misunderstandings...

I think jalaal will not believe jodha, but she will keep her eye on Maham-sharif-Adham...
Autumn_Rose thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#88

Originally posted by: lashy

Thanks aunty...Yes, it did answer my questions - though, I still do feel that transitioning and letting viewers into the sequences/character changes is possibly where the CVs lack the most!😊


I didn't meant it was love at all...but, never have they shown Jo ever recalling, mulling upon or summarizing anything that Jalal has done for/against her...anything that he's told her...
If only, we could get a better view as to what's in HER mind - does she understand him...if so, when? how? on Wednesday, it didn't seem like she understood him at all...even when he was only speaking about his responsibilities as a Shehenshah...
As for the answer aunty gave about personal integrity - if it was only the dowry/durg fort issue she was talking about I'd understand...however, there were many other statements she made like 'If Shehenshah has said that he has given his word, it means he has' etc etc which shows she has understood his nature somewhat - only we've never been shown those aspects...and why?
They would make for much sensible scenes, wouldn't they - showing her inner battles/turmoils? They'd make us empathize with her far more too! They'd make her appear more human!

Its quite confusing - I think the CVs themselves are not sure...so they take the tracks and play with the scenes as it comes by...😊


I was talking about people in general.. I really like that she took his side, but I'm not going oh she loves him like most people.

I think at a subconscious level, she sort of knows the real him, the fact that he is not a jallad, she doesn't actually doubt his intentions. Her self talk before the suicide made it clear.

She does notice the good in him.. the things he does for her. She just doesn't want to acknowledge them. When Sukanya was talking about how she looks pretty and all.. how jalal was waiting for her. Even though she knows that her sister doesn't have a hubby wife relationship yet. .. Jodha feels uncomfortable because it brings her feelings to surface and she doesn't want that.
sashashyam thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#89
See, Lashy, I did not make myself clear enough. I watched the episode again, and everything that Jodha tells her parivaar can be explained using the sense of right and wrong argument,which is what is meant by integrity.

@ blue.Why do you limit it only to the durg argument? It is not just a question of her personal integrity but of her assessment of his personal integrity as well. She knows that he has kept every promise he ever made to her, even when it was something that went completely against the grain for him. As he never tires of repeating, the Shahenshah's word is patthar ki lakeer. So, it is but natural that she defends him on the promise issue, affirming that if he said he had not given that promise, it meant that he had not. This does not need any personal feelings on her part at all, it is an objective assessment of Jalal's persona.

The only change now is that she does deny or contradict , as was her habit earlier, whatever good she has learnt about him from his behaviour, saying "Isme bhi unki koyi chal hogi" As no one can prove a negative, she was home and dry, and did not need to face up to facts at all. But she now takes it all at face value, that he was a man of integrity in the matter of Sukanya's marriage as well. The elaborate statement of backup arguments to buttress her affirmation is the same, though in a different context, as the arguments she offered against the execution of Abdul.

That she perceives and accepts Jalal'a integrity is obviously the cumulative impact of a number of recent happenings: his not having spoken a word of blame to her for the narnaal fiasco, his epiphany at Ajmer. and finally what he did to fulfil her sankalp during the Kali Mandir visit. But still, at the end of the day, it comes round to her faith in his integrity, in being what he appears to be.

I too have always felt the lack of any voice overs showing Jodha arguing with herself or mulling things over, about Jalal and otherwise, and I would agree completely with you about @red. . I had mentioned the absence of such an inner voice in the solo scenes for Jodha as a roadblock of the viewers when they try to understand what makes her tick. The only exception to this was the Green Jodha /Yellow Jodha scene, but that was a one shot affair, never repeated. Jalal has the occasional scene of him ruminating and thinking aloud. Jodha, never, except for that one exception.

This should be rectified, but it will not be. You are right on this, but in part. It is, to my mind, not that the CVs are not sure. It seems rather to be that they want to keep open the one step forwards, 2 steps backwards option. Otherwise, how will they churn out 500 episodes?

Let us see how Jalal reacts when she goes to him with her 'evidence' against Sharifuddin and Adham.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: lashy

Thanks aunty...Yes, it did answer my questions - though, I still do feel that transitioning and letting viewers into the sequences/character changes is possibly where the CVs lack the most!😊


I didn't meant it was love at all...but, never have they shown Jo ever recalling, mulling upon or summarizing anything that Jalal has done for/against her...anything that he's told her...
If only, we could get a better view as to what's in HER mind - does she understand him...if so, when? how? on Wednesday, it didn't seem like she understood him at all...even when he was only speaking about his responsibilities as a Shehenshah...
As for the answer aunty gave about personal integrity - if it was only the dowry/durg fort issue she was talking about I'd understand...however, there were many other statements she made like 'If Shehenshah has said that he has given his word, it means he has' etc etc which shows she has understood his nature somewhat - only we've never been shown those aspects...and why?
They would make for much sensible scenes, wouldn't they - showing her inner battles/turmoils? They'd make us empathize with her far more too! They'd make her appear more human!

Its quite confusing - I think the CVs themselves are not sure...so they take the tracks and play with the scenes as it comes by...😊

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