Jaggiyya should support ganga - Page 11

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Picasso9 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: rohini55

Two other points struck me. J agreed to marry to please his family. He had done badly by them and he needed to give them happiness. Let us assume his family would have been thrilled to see him married -- so delusional are they that theydon't see that he is feeling suffocated, they don't see that he is completely miserable. He in turn keeps says he is doing all this as an obligation. But what about the girl? No girl, not even saanchi, deserves to be trapped in a fake marriage because the husband is discharging an obligation.

Second point: Jagya's family tells him if he doesn't agree to the Sa proposal, Anandi will suffer. But if she did suffer because he said no, it would have been just for a while because the proposal did not even go through. On the other hand, marriage would have meant A being stuck in a situation where the ex-husband is a constant presence in the house. And given A's habit of saying J this and J that she would have been constantly pitted against Sa who would resent her bhabhi knowing so much personal stuff about her husband.Which is more awkward? J saying no to sa rishta or co-habiting with A as her nanand's husband? How did J not think about all this. But who thinks in any serial?

If people did think, they would know that no district collector will be allowed to stay in his personal house. The DC's official bungalow serves also as his after-hours office. Throngs of people come to meet him there. He will need to be accessible 24 into seven to his PA and other officers like deputy collector and Block Development Officers. Because managing a district is a nerve-wracking job requiring full attention.But cares for details?



Rohini,

You bring up great points. But...

Jagya did bring up the GIRL whom he would marry to both DS and Anandi. When Anandi was forcing him to agree for remarriage, he fought back citing , 'what about thr poor innocent girl'. He doesnt want to ruin her life. And Anandi countered with her example.

About THINKING everything through and THIINKING about the degrees of unhappiness Anandi would experience whether he said yes VS no. Jagya returned from the hospital and the proposal was SPRUNG on him. He was given no chance to THINK. Sumitra capitalized on the constraints of time to get what she wanted.

He did look towards Anandi to get some indication from her on how she felt, but she gave him NOTHING. At least he tried that before saying yes with HER happiness in mind.

Jagay is NOT FULLY REDEEMED. If he was fully redeemed, he would be receiving FULL RESPECT, COURTESY and FAITH from his family and Anandi. They still don't trust him hence the hullabaloo prior to the engagement.
441597 thumbnail
Posted: 12 years ago
@Picasso9: Sorry again for the late reply.
Lol no worries mate, I ain't mad. 😆 I was simply calling you out on what I perceived as biased behaviour. (Calling my comments "personal attack" while conceding to Jan50's comment). THAT was what I took umbrage at. For the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a villager, its the WAY she insinuated it that was derogatory.
"The people who are objecting to Jagya's actions are no better than the villagers who gossiped about Jagya-Ganga"--is this not intended to demean the other opinion? Your agreeing with it did amount to support a personal attack. Hence my "propriety" comment.
But anyway, no worries. As you say, life is short. 😆
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: krystal_watz

@Picasso9: Sorry again for the late reply.
Lol no worries mate, I ain't mad. 😆 I was simply calling you out on what I perceived as biased behaviour. (Calling my comments "personal attack" while conceding to Jan50's comment). THAT was what I took umbrage at. For the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a villager, its the WAY she insinuated it that was derogatory.
"The people who are objecting to Jagya's actions are no better than the villagers who gossiped about Jagya-Ganga"--is this not intended to demean the other opinion? Your agreeing with it did amount to support a personal attack. Hence my "propriety" comment.
But anyway, no worries. As you say, life is short. 😆


Krystal,

You have a right to call me out. It's ok. And I know exactly what Jan meant which is why I happen to agree with her so strongly. As you have a right to 'judge' us per your lense of what's propriety so do we. 😊 Regardless of who started it first. ...water under the bridge.

Hope you have/had a lovely day. Take care. 😊
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: koolsadhu1000

Kools: Here we're talking from JAGYA'S POV. He finds her suffocating, he should kick her butt and be brave enough to do it. Why hang between two women?


As i see it my dear its too early in the matter for him to do it .

I will tell u what i see .

An arranged marraige , where the man , twice divorced , agrees to the girl of his mother's choice . It happens in India all the time in arranged marraiges . The attitude of those who stand up for marraige for their family as they themselves r too career involved or once bitten twice shy by their own experimentation with relationships is , if this is for the family's happiness , the choice might as well be theirs .

This is not at all unusual or a shocker , marraiges in India r often done for family than for the individuals , a thing constantly harped on in BV . Its true as it happens many times .

Now this particular man is helping an abused woman personally much much before his fiancee got a crush on him and asked her family to propose to him and get him for her .

The man said ok as he would have indifferently said to any arranged marraige proposal especially as his mother was all for the alliance .

After the engagement , the fiancee and her mother r objecting to the philanthrophy he has been practising much before ...asking him to modify it or better still give it up .

From his end he is still the same . Indifferent and still helping the woman , with no idea that the intensity of dislike in the fiancee and her mother for his actions is very high . Hegot an idea of it on the phone where his fiancee asked him about having an affair .

After that , there has been till this point , no meeting .

But he has also not been shown thinking about breaking off . He has got immersed in other practical matters .

Now the fiancee is shown fretting and fuming and her mother has a face as black as thunder .

Its THEY who have the problem , clearly shown .

For me , there is no competition as to why Jagya can't break off why not she

He is fine , not making issues even of the affair accusation . He really has not given it serious thought . He promised her brother he will make it work .

It is she who is having problems . So i say , break off .

Eventually he will arrive at same conclusion .But since he is more mature , it will take time . At that time i will say he should break off .

But even when he starts feeling stifled , his mother will throw tantrums and hold his former failure at relationships as the cause of this break up , saying that he always made her fall flat on the face . She will not see that the girl is genuinely stifling him .

That is the tragedy . Let us see . At this stage since the problems r more from their side i say they should back off .


You do make sense here. IMO it should've been explained in this manner at the outset. Yeah, let's hope the ordeal ends soon enough.
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Posted: 12 years ago
rohini

No guy ...and i repeat , no guy is required to stand before a family of strangers [ in this case his ex's sasural] and give an account of his past misdeeds or any explanation of any sort for refusing or accepting their daughter that THEY went begging at his doorstep for him to accept .

There is NO redemption in this speech , and there is NO question of honesty or dishonesty . It is demeaning in the extreme to be this public about private life , good or bad .

The responsibility lies on the Shekhars to dig deeper before they took the rishta , thats what arranged marraige parties do .

They didn't . They knew , he had almost put their son in jail , then got a jail sentence himself . They knew he was someone divorced TWICE . They knew he was their bahu's ex . They knew he was terribly controversial .

Yet in a span of 2 days they rushed with the rishta ...they decided NOT to dig at all but please their spoilt obstinate daughter . She has selected him na , fine then , ok . what to do, was their shrug and off they went .

Their stupidity cannot be his onus . The onus was THEIRS . And he is not supposed to bear the burden of THEIR onus and stand up and give an account of his life to accept or reject their daughter .

He agreed to Saanchi as

He genuinely felt Anandi was ok with it as she sent wrong signals by her holy , thoughtful silence

His mom liked the proposal and told him to think of Anandi's saasra

coz he was indifferent to any girl in the marraige market and what pleased his family was fine by him .

He told Shiv the truth . He was not in love with Ganga then or even now to consider that as a lie . He only knows , right upto this point that he has feelings for that girl who he helped , he has not even thought deeply about them .

What he meant was , don't worry , i WILL WORK ON IT .

Regarding the suffocation . Thats what WE observe , he did not say it . Only once he idly wondered if she was the right girl for him when she was constantly phoning him and dictating to him what he should wear in the office . The thought was momentary , then he went back to work .

Neither has he considered making an issue about the filthy out of the line accusation of his fiancee that is having an affair . STILL he has not decided to make issue and break off . The issues r strictly made by his fiancee and her mother . He has not even given that credence and been true to the promise he gave Shiv .

Telling all of ur past is a strict no no at least for me coz its private . U owe explanations to none except ur soul and we see him battling those demons day in and day out every day .
Edited by koolsadhu1000 - 12 years ago
RainbowKitty thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Truthseeker


Hey i asked Jan how giving a saree to ganga is "helping her" ?Is this post a reply to that?

i can answer you that Just like taking her to restaurant is helping her Do you call that date ? it was done to show her what a restaurant is how to order there ,in a practical way removing her kannada language hesitation so tomorrow when she will make friends she won't be embarrassed she know nothing she can go there anytime This was her major hesitation she shared with him in the last that everyone here is so modern do this , do that , know all i know nothing He knew it before hand His expressions spoke volumes he knew about it His intention both ways are same He gave saree to her to make her familiar with traditions of city Tomorrow if Ghaghara choli will make her feel down as her friends are so modern she can have a change it was certainly not teej gift because he clearly said it later take it as teej gift a festival gift He came here to encourage her not to discourage her that he would start lecturing her how her dressing can be problematic to her so he used a different way connect this scene with restaurant one he answered her same way when she asked what was the need of coming here He said to eat kannadian food Was that his intention only It was to remove her hesitation she know nothing and take her there Saree was also connected to this scene Purpose both way same Prepare her for the life style of city which her heart too will desire to do but her nervousness she is a fool naive person know nothing is stopping her She will feel low in front of her friends
Its the way of seeing thing Everything is clear Up to you how you see it All scenes were connected to each other If he was so lusty to see her in sarees in front of him How many times he was shown thinking about her in saree ?He did not even a say word to her in appreciation Kept quiet because his intention was to only show her the life style of city which will be helpful for her not his personal interest
Edited by hina13 - 12 years ago
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Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: Truthseeker


Hmm yeah i did forget that and there i made a mistake. When he agreed to this marriage , i was convinced then that he was at no fault in in all this because he is required to please his parents now after all what he did to them till then . I felt he should have asked for some time though.

as for Anandi speaking out with Ira - Don't think that would suit her character. She is well known to stay quiet when she is supposed to speak...and speaks a lot when she should stay put. Anandi could have done a lot more things starting off with staying away from blackmailing Jagya into this whole marriage thing. So i'll put her aside for a while and think about what J could have done as it is J who is entering into a new life and not Anandi.

J could have been a little open with his fiancee and could have told her that he accepted this proposal only because of his family. If he doesn't trust her enough on this he could have been open with Shiv atleast when Shiv asked him directly. He has a very good relation with Shiv. This staying quiet will only bring troubles and a failed 3rd marriage(If he continues to stay silent and goes ahead with the marriage). It is high time he voices his opinion..or at least shares his feelings with someone(in the family, not ganga)


Yup Truthseeker,

I agree that it has never been Anandi's nature to speak up when she should. But if the justification is allowed for her silence in family situations then why did she speak up against Nandu with Gehna/Basant. Surely the reasoning can't keep getting amended. I was once told by a member that Aandi NEVER has double standards in her treatment of Outsiders vs family members. And they tied the Gehna/Nandu instance.

So with that in mind, if Anandi can be given leeway (as in its her nature) for not speaking up in a timely manner, then why can't Jagya be given leeway for always being impulsive. After all that's his nature too. So the question of asking for ore time becomes contrary to his impulsive nature.

J sat down and spoke to Saanchi in private before tendering his decision to the rest of the family. Every time he tries to get in a word edgewise, Saanchi interrupts him with her know it all attitude. Have you noticed how, she will ask him a question and always answer it for him? She did the same on Teej. It's always Saanchi's way or no way. Jagya is just going with the flow right now because I don't think he wants to put up a fight and antagonise his family. He is trying to compromise. He agree to their choice of marriage partner for them.

If Jagya's actions are open to analysis and critique then so should Shiv's and Anandi's. Shiv should have explicitly told his family from day one, that he needs to speak to Jagya before any proposal is taken there. How long does it take to make one phone call. Waiting till day of engagement to have a talk with him and that too so vaguely and briefly is not done. For his peace of mind as brother, he should have sat down with Jagya and discussed all the nuances of this new relationship openly, including the absurdity of the relationship, I.e. Anandi's ex marrying her nanand. That could have given Jagya an opening. Shiv is supposed to be more fair, more just, more mature. Surely all this coming explicitly from Siv would have made Jagys secure enough to say no.


It has always been Jagyas nature to seek approval and compliments from other after advocacy from Anandi.. Surely if he saw that Shiv was in his corner, aft such a discussion, it would have emboldened him to say no just before the engagement.
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Posted: 12 years ago
@Truth seeker The motive was there my dear It was not personal gift If it would be he would have given her when he came there when he gave her all the gifts For Mannu too he gave why not her ? He opened his entire bag in front of her If he brought it for her for teej he didnt even know before she is keeping vrat he got to know when he came here if he brought her for teej then he would have said it directly here a teej gift for you When she asked him what is this for he said it ''Keep it considering as teej gift '' Compare the restaurant scene he did similar act when she asked him why we came here he said ''to eat kannadian food '' it was not funny scene only but spoke volumes of his intention it was to help her I analyse everything before passing judgement i found his acts , his words, his expressions , his body language and the connection between scenes so motive was there to prepare her for city life style Connection is clearly between both scenes Don't believe me so see again and try to analyze them with what i have said you find much similarity

Saree or salwar suit i don't think it really matters She was married woman , a mother too Will find more comfort in saree If it was personal gift he would have given her before when he came why he didn't bring anything for her then ?He has to buy from here😆 this also tells what his motive was


Edited by hina13 - 12 years ago
rohini55 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
@kool
am sorry we seem to be living on different planets. Your quote: " No guy ...and i repeat , no guy is required to stand before a family of strangers [ in this case his ex's sasural] and give an account of his past misdeeds or any explanation of any sort for refusing or accepting their daughter that THEY went begging at his doorstep for him to accept ."

Jagya was not standing before strangers but before the family of his future wife. He chose to accept when given the option to reject. I believe, and I thought everyone believed, that it is important for partners in a marriage to be completely, brutally honest with each other. It is no excuse that the family did not find out what awful things I did in my past or assume that they know everything about my past . The last would be impossible if J knew anandi. She of her own would not reveal his misdeeds to her in-laws.

By this logic, if a young stupid girl falls for a rapist-murderer who is on his way to redemption, he does not at all have to come clean with her on his past because, nobody but nobody, needs to give an account of their past misdeeds. Revealing it all would be a humiliation he need not bring upon himself. If the truth hits her later, so be it. Sa believes he was wronged and that is why she is crazy about him. He is intelligent enough to know that it is because of this delusion that she hankers after him.

I thought even Indian society had evolved to a stage where full disclosure is deemed necessary. You see this classic conflict even in saas bahu soaps. The mother will advise her daughter to hide/suppress her past to her suitor only to find the entire thing blowing up on their faces later. Any marriage where the bride/'groom does not make full disclosure is doomed to fail because the marriage would have been built on a foundation, not of mutual trust, but deception and half truths.

Jagya did not feel the need to be upfront about his past. Does that make him honest?You don't have to lie to be a liar. Not disclosing the truth is equally bad. As soon he came to know of the marriage, he had a flashback of all the chasing Sanchi did. She threw herself at him and he kept smiling. At one point it did disturb him that a young member of Anandi's family was behaving rather strangely with him. But he never followed it up though Sa was so in your face he would have had to be blind not to see what she was leading up to.

We can give the benefit of the doubt on this to J, though he does emerge looking very stupid for not figuring Sa out.. However, Once she popped the question, he should have been able to connect the dots, He should have understood that Sa mistook his going along with all her wishes as an interest in her. But even without the romantic angle, J knew how immature and silly Sa was. He had seen her foolishness with his own eyes. And he knew she was in awe of him -- she said this over and over -- and thought him to be some superman. Once the relationship status changed to prospective marriage partners, it was incumbent on him to disabuse her of her stupid romantic notions. He needed to shake her and say: Believe me I'm not what you think I'm. If not in front of the family he needed to say this to her when they were alone. The opportunity presented itself before he said yes. But he fritterd it away and spoke some nonsense to to her.

I was so sure J would talk about himself and his past to Sa's family. (It would have made for a historic TV moment too) Because J has it in him to do this. Because he has always been a mixture of extreme good and extreme bad. and right now he is on the goodness curve.

What about the fact that Sa and J are blindingly mismatched? Are you all saying that it is okay for Jagya not see the absurdity of a young, rosy-eyed virginal girl marrying a twice-divorced much older man? He knew he didn't want to marry her, he worried about the impact of his No on Anandi's in laws. But he never asked himself if should be getting a young, virginal third bride. How utterly unbelievable this is. Badi Haveli too was happy to get the windfall without once thinking about the consequences of landing their twice divorced son on a bratty teenager..

I for one think this whole thing is absurd. What makes it worse is J showing not the slightest concern for his would -be- bride knowing she had kept a fast for him

We can agree to disagree. As I said we are on different planets on this.
Edited by rohini55 - 12 years ago
koolsadhu1000 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
Yes thats precisely what i am saying . You propose to a person , its your onus to find details of that person , whether he wishes to tell all details or not is HIS wish . No compulsion for him to tell all .

Since we live on different planets

lets agree to disagree .😊
Edited by koolsadhu1000 - 12 years ago

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