Hmm...something to mull over

Bazinga thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 13 years ago
#1
Last week, a friend of mine who is pregnant watched the CSA episode on my insistence and she scolded me the next day for putting her through a distressing time. She vowed that she'd not watch the show , at least in her current condition, for it will affect her emotionally and it is not good for her baby but that did not stop her in voting in the favor of the law against CSA. I felt she was right in her own place, after all she DID get the point AK was trying to make with the episode. However, that got me thinking, what if there are several others like my friend who want to "escape" seeing all this? Is the show "negative" ? Is it affecting in a depressing way? I also felt a little concerned that if the percentage of people who think this way is more (and they are justified in their place), will we ever be able to boldly take it in our stride and muster up that courage to fight the evils plaguing our society? You can understand it is a conflicting situation to be in- on one hand the people who want to keep away are not wrong yet on the other the drop in the percentage because of them can weaken the stance on the issue.

So far, SMJ has managed to put in a balanced perspective - throwing light on the pros and cons just to make sure that no one gets bogged down by the depressing facts. Today's episode had a more positive bend that way and it was really inspiring to watch someone like Rani Tripathi and her husband Pavan Tripathi - when I look at such people it gives me HOPE that there ARE people like Pavan and his family and all the others who came forward to marry Rani, who can actually admire a strong woman 👏. And women like Rani make me REALLY PROUD 👏 👏 👏 - the irony, however, is the fact that VERY FEW people can actually understand her courage and not discount her thinking as "juvenile" or "abnormal" but I will come to that later. Rani's zingers made my day honestly and I was really entertained in a way. On the other hand, Komal's story was touching but what was hurting was her and her family putting up with all of this without any retaliation. Same with the other Punjabi girl, why did they put up with all of it? Why is our society so hard on the girl? Our society has preferred arranged marriages over love marriages always - technically, in an arranged marriage, if you are a guy or his parent, you choose the girl, you choose the family and you do the background check and you do all the work, so it is all your choice and your wish and YET you have a problem with it? WHY? Why is it SO HARD for you to stick to YOUR OWN DECISION and work on it by showing commitment? Why have so many expectations from the other person when you yourself can't guarantee that you can live up to the other person's expectations? My question is not just for the parents of the grooms and their families who put the girl through hell, it is also for all those girls who don't value the guys in their life. Let's face it - in today's day and age, the guys are as much victims as the girls, it is not a rosy picture for them and their families either. I have seen sad stories on both sides, it is just that it has been happening for a longer period of time in case of the girls. Sometimes though, and I know it is wrong to think this way, I feel like the innocent guys are getting punished for the sins done by their fellow men.

This brings me to the fact that AK did not skip over the fact of guys being victims - the groom kidnapping in Bihar is no less appalling and shocking, it is traumatic for the guys and it is unfair to them but then that is merely an offshoot of the dowry system and I am not sure how many people realize that . And even in that case, the girl only has to suffer eventually- what if the guy does not accept her? It is actually great that the victim who came today took it in his stride, displayed sensitivity and maturity to accept that girl 👏, when I see such people, somewhere I feel hopeful that what our culture preaches about respecting women has made an impact. And I am totally TOTALLY for the laws that support simple, modest wedding ceremonies ⭐️. Personally, I have always wanted to have a low key wedding with no pomp myself. The amount of money that is spent on a wedding nowadays is ridiculous - I keep thinking about the over priced food that is wasted by the guests and the eventual dissatisfaction of some guest or the other, who can never appreciate the efforts of the bride's family. Instead, I keep thinking, HALF that money can be spent on those who are ACTUALLY starving for food and a simple reception can be thrown for the guests- that way both are happy. Oh well, that was just my personal opinion anyway, never mind.

All the positivity of the episode aside, may be it is just me but I felt that today's SMJ diluted the impact the subject of dowry could have created, not that I expect AK to always show distressing stories and try to hit the viewer's sentiment but somehow the balance tilted in the favor of showing positivity only, it looked like a conscious effort to show positivity. Perhaps that was because a lot of people complained about the show being "negative" and affecting them in a distressing manner? No judging or comparison here but if I look at the PROJECTION in the first episode and the kind of impact it created (with a perfect positivity-negativity balance) , today's episode seemed to dilute things somewhat. I understand that this time the idea was to create impact by showing positive aspects and by putting forth inspiring models (like the modest wedding ones and NE communities ones where dowry is unheard of) for other societies to emulate but like I said the PROJECTION left a little more to be desired for me personally.


Coming back to Rani's case, it affirmed that the fundamental problem, as this show had showed us time and again, has always lied in OUR thinking. WHY do we rarely give a chance to someone who has an opinion that is different from the general consensus that has been accepted as a "rule", why is it a sacrilege to question the decisions of elders at times, why is it always termed as being rude and harshly judged as wrong/failed upbringing by both the girl's and the guy's families? When WE are always asked to have an open mind and think positive, give respect to others' opinions why can't our opinions be met with the same respect and objectivity? Why? Why does it not occur to someone that if such questions are arising then there must be a flaw somewhere that triggers this thinking? I ask all this because Rani had to convince her brother to actually do the sting operation, because he totally dismissed her idea initially- 90% of the families think that way, they would never take a "risk" by letting the girl have her say- sometimes it disturbs me that no matter how much we progress, we sometimes hold on to such regressive beliefs that it totally defeats whatever progressive steps we have taken. I understand there is usually SO MUCH pressure on the girl's family when it comes to marriage that in their desperation, parents sometimes take decisions against the girl's wishes and that may or may not end up ruining her life. Success of any marriage, love or arranged is always a matter of chance and the couple's ability to work on maintaining the compatibility consistently and that requires BOTH (note, both being the operative word here) the people involved and both families adjusting at some point or the other. When have we let it go so far that we TAKE IT FOR GRANTED and DEMAND IT AS A RIGHT that the girl and her family only adjust all the time? And WHY do the girls' families ENDORSE such thinking? Why can't everyone accept that times have changed and balance can be attained if and only if the older generation stops to apply the rules of yore today and takes a step FORWARD to understand today's generation? I am not saying that all is hunky-dory with our generation either, we need to learn to be more patient and less impulsive and we should stop magnifying everything , showing extreme reactions. In a nutshell, I believe BOTH the parties NEED to work but it is unfair that just because they have experience and we don't have it, we are expected to accept whatever they say - while we respect their experience, are we wrong to expect them to CONSIDER our exposure?


I guess I digressed a little bit there and perhaps got emotional even, sorry about that 😆.
Edited by Bazinga - 13 years ago

Created

Last reply

Replies

20

Views

2k

Users

9

Likes

67

Frequent Posters

-Purva- thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Engager Level 4 Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 13 years ago
#2
I agree with you that gender discrimination is the root of most evils in society - female foeticide, eve-teasing, sexual harassment, dowry, groom kidnapping - all have origin in the fact that we as a society treat one gender as superior to the other. The problem with the entire setup is that we idolize certain things and trivialize the others.

My sister met this childhood friend of hers after a gap of 10 years or so. In this interim - my sister had completed her MBA and achieved success in career, she was living in her own flat and driving her own car - all the trappings of a successful career woman. The friend however had married even before she completed her graduation. This is how the conversation went:

Friend: So you did not do anything with your life in all these years.

Sister: Why what else do you think I should have done? Can't you see I'm so successful - I have a good job, own flat, own car all luxuries and even my retirement planned.

Friend: I gave birth to a son. what did you achieve?

Sister (laughing): Yes I did not give birth to a son, but when your son grows up and looks for a job send him to me.

The parameters by which a girls achievements are judged are vastly different from that a man. We can laugh about it but fact remains that in our schools, colleges, workplaces there is rampant discrimination.

Question that ran in my mind today was that should a girl who is courageous enough to expose a person demanding dowry still be looking for"acceptance"? It is not for the guy to "accept" her but for her to "approve" the groom. When we move to the point when women can say to a groom that "you do not deserve to marry me" then can we say that gender equality has been achieved.
-Purva- thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Engager Level 4 Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 13 years ago
#3
My entire problem with the arranged marriage setup - why would an intelligent, educated, modern girl hand over the most important decision in her life to someone else? One can take their advise, one cannot go along with a wrong decision like a cow.

What stops the girls today from speaking up? To hell with the family that forces you to live with physical and metal torture for the sake of appearances. If a father's social prestige is more important to him than the life of his daughter, then he doesn't deserve any consideration from the daughter. What is stopping these women from walking out of an abusive household and going to live in a working women's hostel? What is stopping them from finding a job as a call center executive/typist/receptionist and being independent? These jobs do not require a lot of skills.

I know of a woman who walked out of their husband's house at the age of 50 and took up a job in a saree shop as a sales girl.

No sorry, when a girl is educated, comes from an affluent family and still weeps buckets of tears about being abused, I have no sympathy for her. It were better if she had been left illiterate and the same opportunity of education been given to someone else who could've made some use of it.
Bazinga thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 13 years ago
#4
@Chitrashi Personally, I have no issues with arranged marriages in general. It is an individual's choice, educated or not. Unless the person in question loves someone else and parents are forcing them to marry against their wishes, I wouldn't like to thumb down the institution of arranged marriage. But the unnecessary and unfair PRESSURE that comes with it, whether in the form of dowry or anything else, is what we as a society, need to fight against.

That apart I do agree with you that our society, for some reason, has built up its own fancies around some ideals and interpreted them in its own regressive way which is saddening. Gender inequality is a wholly different issue and I wouldn't say that it is specific to our country alone.
Edited by Bazinga - 13 years ago
-Purva- thumbnail
14th Anniversary Thumbnail Engager Level 4 Thumbnail + 5
Posted: 13 years ago
#5
Personally even I don't mean to disparage arranged marriages. However, the thought that an arranged marriage means that you stop using your head and start nodding to everything your parents/in-laws/neighbors/neighbors grandmother's maid's daughter says is what I have a problem with. But most of all I have a problem with doctor and engineer women who choose to sit at home after marriage or educated women who live in abusive marriages. I can never empathize with that kind of mentality - probably because I come from a very different background.
Bazinga thumbnail
19th Anniversary Thumbnail Sparkler Thumbnail + 3
Posted: 13 years ago
#6
Balancing family life with work can get difficult to handle for some women after a time. Nowadays, with women working some men have become so pathetic that they don't even do the outside chores and leave that also to their wives. In such cases I can understand women wanting to quit their jobs. Besides, wanting to work or feeling like sitting at home, is again an individual's choice - you may argue that what is the point of their education then , well it is not like every engineer will work on what branch they have specialized in (in that case it is no different from not working and sitting at home) and as far as doctors are considered, the level of commitment and dedication the field requires is not an easy thing to handle for all women.

I don't think arranged marriage requires one to stop using their head, it is a matter of waiting for the right time to speak. The institution of arranged marriage in itself is so sensitive that it can hurt a lot of people if we end up saying something we should not. As far as abusive marriages are concerned, I guess it has a lot to do with our culture which teaches women to be patient and though I don't endorse what the women do, I think most of them try to make it work for their parents' sake, they don't want all that effort their parents put in for their marriage to go waste so they hang on with a hope and make every effort to fix it. But they need to know WHEN to draw a line and that is when a show like SMJ helps, women should understand when it is worth fighting and when it is not. And I think most of them also fear the life out of marriage- our society is rarely forgiving and they are harshly judged, not to forget the sexual harassment and lecherous looks they have to dodge from other men. If some kind of assurance can be given to them about living their lives respectfully as a divorcee, I don't think these women would put up with domestic violence or other abuse. This kind of regressive thinking is what needs to change, THIS is what we need to fight against.
megustajalebi thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: Chitrashi

My entire problem with the arranged marriage setup - why would an intelligent, educated, modern girl hand over the most important decision in her life to someone else? One can take their advise, one cannot go along with a wrong decision like a cow.

What stops the girls today from speaking up? To hell with the family that forces you to live with physical and metal torture for the sake of appearances. If a father's social prestige is more important to him than the life of his daughter, then he doesn't deserve any consideration from the daughter. What is stopping these women from walking out of an abusive household and going to live in a working women's hostel? What is stopping them from finding a job as a call center executive/typist/receptionist and being independent? These jobs do not require a lot of skills.

I know of a woman who walked out of their husband's house at the age of 50 and took up a job in a saree shop as a sales girl.

No sorry, when a girl is educated, comes from an affluent family and still weeps buckets of tears about being abused, I have no sympathy for her. It were better if she had been left illiterate and the same opportunity of education been given to someone else who could've made some use of it.


In response to the last paragraph:

I think it's insensitive to say that you can't have any sympathy for an abuse victim that comes from an educated background. Abuse occurs in all types of households regardless of their economic or educational status. I have never been a victim of such harsh abuse myself, but I want to point out that enduring such situations completely distorts a person's personality and mindset. They feel helpless and embarrassed and frightened. Even the strongest of people can become completely shattered. To an outsider, it might seem like an easy move to walk out while yelling obscenities but to the victims, it's nearly an impossible idea.

For example, in Komal's situation, I thought it was really strange that she never reached out for help in the US until she nearly starved to death. She had access to her phone and could have easily called 911. However I realized that I couldn't understand what was happening in her mind because I was looking at this as an outsider.


pigbelly4myfeet thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: Bazinga



All the positivity of the episode aside, may be it is just me but I felt that today's SMJ diluted the impact the subject of dowry could have created, not that I expect AK to always show distressing stories and try to hit the viewer's sentiment but somehow the balance tilted in the favor of showing positivity only, it looked like a conscious effort to show positivity. Perhaps that was because a lot of people complained about the show being "negative" and affecting them in a distressing manner? No judging or comparison here but if I look at the PROJECTION in the first episode and the kind of impact it created (with a perfect positivity-negativity balance) , today's episode seemed to dilute things somewhat. I understand that this time the idea was to create impact by showing positive aspects and by putting forth inspiring models (like the modest wedding ones and NE communities ones where dowry is unheard of) for other societies to emulate but like I said the PROJECTION left a little more to be desired for me personally.


Kavyaaa! 🤗😆 *special squishy hugs since I haven't talked to you in like forever*

Word to this bit especially Kavz. Even though I liked reading your entire emotional rant/thoughts otherwise too. 👍🏼

But honestly, this episode didn't quite make that much of an impact on me. I still think the very first episode of this show was what has hit me the hardest. I STILL dwell over that episode and think about it...whereas the subsequent two episodes afterwards haven't made that much of an impact on me for some reason.

I completely ditto to the bit in your post I have highlighted in blue. You made a very interesting point regarding your friend's sentiments towards this show. It did feel to me as well, that this episode was going for that 'positivity' feeling..but in so doing, I felt the main issue and the impact did get diluted.

This episode didn't feel as well researched to me also for some reason. The episode pattern/the stories also felt a little tedious/repetitive to watch. And that end little speech of Amir's also felt a little on the preachy side to me. Actually, Amir does seem to get a little preachy/filmy/emotional with his own input during these episodes. Which I don't think is put on...his intent feels genuine to me and it's just his personality I guess only to get a little filmy/emotional. 😆 But in this episode especially, he was being a little more (than usual) on the preachy/filmy side.

I feel like a lot more could've been explored regarding this issue. The impact of the issue itself didn't come through to me. I don't really feel like I've been enlightened over this issue much after watching this particular episode, which was not the case with the previous two episodes.

For one, like Amir himself says in that interview of his...he wants to explore the SOCIAL aspects of these issues, not the political aspects. So in that sense, I feel like the social aspects of this dowry issue and the broader impact this has on our society could've been explored more.

The research in this episode was a little let down for me. For example, during the first episode, I liked how the focus was broad. The history of how female infanticide first began was also explored. And then the seriousness of the issue on a broader scale regarding female empowerment, the disrupted system that has been created, the issues facing us in the future...just you know screwing up our entire society and the way of life as we know it.

I felt like societal aspects such as the pressures faced in India currently could've been explored more. Like that one example that talked about the pressures middle class families face translating on to the lower class as well which keeps this dowry issue going. I think Amir didn't really get into the ROOT of the issue this time. The root of this issue that WHY is this even happening in the first place? Why are Indians greedy to this extent? Sure this episode looked at the point of view of the victims, but it didn't really get into the other side.

India is a speedily developing country and materialism, greed, status etc...things like these are becoming very prevalent I feel. I think THAT is the main issue here. And of course respect for women...again that female empowerment issue that was touched upon in the first episode connects to this issue as well. Why have we created a system where women are regarded as inferior in society? No wonder female infanticide is happening then.

I feel like Amir (and when I say Amir, I really mean the whole SMJ team of course...) should've gone into the history of this dowry issue too. The whole class difference...and how rooted it actually is in our culture even. How does this issue relate to us on a cultural level? And then of course like most issues India is facing today...that have evolved out of some sort of cultural context and have now magnified in modern times because of societal pressures. That aspect should've been explored. As in, this cultural context of the "ladki wale" always contributing to the expenses of the wedding and all. Which has now magnified due to the greed, low self esteem, and the pressure Indians are facing today. This whole consumerist and materialistic culture that also contributes to this issue. The whole issue of the status symbol. I really liked that one bit in this episode where all that furniture...cooler, sofas etc. were all lying around like raddi and that one woman commented on our value (the value of a woman/person even) being equivalent to that of all these items.

I feel like, that one awesome thought contributed by that woman, and even that thought of this priest of not thinking of weddings as this extravagant and expensive event. Those were the points that should've been explored on a deeper level. Those are the two thoughts that were really the only ones that made me THINK on a deeper level about this issue.

And it's not as simple as, there are tons of greedy people in our society is it? I mean yes, "lalach ka koi ant nahin hota" is true of course. And there are greedy/selfish people everywhere. But how is this relevant to INDIA especially? Because India is a country facing this development wala dilemma. The whole class divide and status and all. When these kinds of pressures are prevalent, this dowry issue is going to be magnified. I feel like that modern viewpoint of this issue wasn't as well explored either.

And the set up of this episode, in terms of starting out with asking these kids what they think of their own weddings and all and then going back to it at the end...hmm...it was a good thought and I appreciate Amir bringing some creativity there...but that felt a little rehearsed/set up to me. It didn't come out as spontaneous or impactful to me. I get the intention of showing that progression in the thoughts of these kids about the meaning of marriage...and that being a symbol of trust/love instead of and extravagant one day event and all. But it felt a little predictable to me. That bit almost felt set up to me...sorry if I'm being too cynical/unfair here.

That NRI issue...was interesting...but again I didn't feel that connected to it because it wasn't explored on a deeper level.

The "Jhansi ki Rani" case and that one dude who got forced into getting married were amusing and interesting, sure. But I think, like you said Kavz, this humour kind of diluted the impact of the issue for me. The stories from today's episode didn't have the impact on me that the past stories have had. Nothing really made connect with these people on a deeper level. Sorry if I am sounding really impassive right now...

Anyways...oh and I think that song "o ri churaiya" has been the best one so far too. That song itself helped to bring out that impact for me. *sigh* I don't think I can ever not get emotional listening to that...again sorry for the comparison between the episodes.

But isn't the main point of this show (at least for me) to develop that sensitivity to an issue within all of us somewhere? I think that is where this episode sort of felt lacking. I didn't feel that emotional, or that patriotic towards my country, that CONNECTED or unity wali feeling, or that sensitivity to the stories, the people affected, and this episode overall didn't really make me THINK as much either. My stand on the dowry issue still remains the same...I haven't really been enlightened or enriched to a great extent, unfortunately.

Anyways...I'm not doubting the intent of this show in any way though. But I do feel that this episode needed more work...more research, more thought and more care. And compared to the previous two episodes, this issue was presented on a much more surface level and in a more predictable way. The depth was lacking somewhat...at least for me. The episode felt hurried too. Like put together in a hurried fashion. Like you said Kavz, that balance was off today.
petticoat thumbnail
18th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 13 years ago
#9
i dont see the point in spending much money for a wedding..that is why i keep telling my dad to pick the guy and i will elope after a mutual agreement😆


rani is raani and komal is komal...there are people like rani's husband and there are rats like the guy who married komal..Neither of them need to have gone through what they did. There are tom boys and bold characters an d there are docile folks

What I like about SMJ is that it is in a way rational. There was a clear idea coming out that if there is a sudden demand or change of face, that is the wrong guy for you. Once you give in you need to always give in.

It is disgusting that gender can make a person less human or less valuable.

I am glad these women came out to share their horrible experiences with us but I am sad to see what they had to go through in order to reach there

Why isnt the whole of India like the North east? Kudos to those folks
pigbelly4myfeet thumbnail
17th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 13 years ago
#10
Oh just thought of a bit that I liked...the part where that guy in the audience was talking about him not getting to watch his cricket matches if his wife's dad paid for the television. 😆

That was an interesting point there. You know, about the self respect of the husband.

Maybe it's this dowry issue only that didn't seem to move me much I don't know...but then it's not WHAT the issue here that's the concern even, it's HOW it's presented in a way that strikes a chord and makes you think/care enough about it. That intention of Amir's, though I know the intention is genuine...it didn't fully come through in this particular episode I felt. Maybe that lighthearted vibe of this episode contributed to this feeling...it almost felt like there really wasn't much of an issue here at all. The depth wasn't explored fully I guess...

This was the first episode of SMJ that felt a little incomplete and unsatisfying to me...even though some good points were presented.

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".