Posted:
I'm from Debate Mansion, and I love to have a good interesting discussion on debates. When Sunny Leone created a furore in Big Boss with her entrance, I created a topic to debate po*nography. That caused some interesting discussion. So I thought I'd spice up this forum with a similar debate related to film. Let me set the stage
This time the discussion is about perceptions, culture and censorship. Where and why do we draw the lines of decency? What is acceptable and unacceptable? What is appropriate on screen, on television, in our houses and what is forbidden? Who makes those choices? How do these perceptions change?
Initially when the forum was discussing The Dirty Picture, I was shocked that some people deemed it to be po*nographic or at least soft po*n. po*nography is something crude and extremely graphic. Sex is shown very explicitly solely for the purpose of providing sexual gratification and catering to human fantasies. Plot, story, aesthetics, class often don't matter in po*n. So it somewhat shocks the moral sensibilities when something is classified as po*nography simply because it portrays a woman whose character is sultry, sensual and seductive. What makes something po*nographic anyways?
The first time I watched a European film, I was surprised by a scene of full frontal male nudity. Having watched some more, both male and female nudity are quite matter of fact. The exposure is not always sexual in nature, but more casual. None of these films had censorship issues. They were released in theaters in their countries without much ado. I was even pleasantly surprised that Israeli films also had no qualms with sex and nudity. It has always made me wonder why is Indian cinema and even US Cinema to a certain extent so afraid of sex and nudity? Even when it is po*nographic but fit with a story, it is treated as obscene? Is it really that obscene or does the perversion lie in us drawing obscene conclusions of something that is anything but.
Next comes the topic of censorship. Is it right to cut these clips or censor them. Just give it the appropriate certification. Should it not left to viewer discretion to decide what they wish to see. The most extreme part of censorship is banning. The Indian censor board in my opinion has always played willy nilly with mindless censorship and bans. However, the one that struck me as most absurd was the ban on "The Girl with The Dragon Tatoo" on the grounds of a graphic rape scene and a lovemaking scene. Both extremely relevant to developing the central character.
Here we are as a country facing a rape crisis in many parts, brutal gang rape sometimes. And on the other hand we are hesitant to show rape. Moreover, it wasn't some rape po*n fantasy that could be justifiably censored. In fact you have a feminist character who prevails despite rape, fights back and does not let the rape affect her sexual desires and sex life. Why would you ban a character and a movie that is about fighting and prevailing despite horrendous circumstances? If a movie were to be made about a real rape victim, should the audience not know the truth of what happened and experience a little bit of that trauma?
Speaking of censorship, what of censorship on the internet - the thousand words that make the pictures. Like on the forums and bulletin boards. Most forums I've visited followed the NC-17 rule. Since international law requires registering members to be 16 and older, the NC-17 rule made the most common practical sense. As long as it was not po*nographic, graphically violent or hateful (like promoting the KKK not bashing Bollywood's KKK). Rogue groups like 4Chan etc don't follow censorship telling anyone who gets offended to leave while forums like Somethingawful actually have adult subsections. India Forums on the other hand has a very arbitrary family forum policy.
What should the censorship policy on forums be - aligned with practical measures like NC-17 or more arbitrary like family forum that tries to cater to shifting sensitivities? In either case where and how do the lines get drawn?
In a final broader sense - what decides what is appropriate and inappropriate - be it a nation, a town, a community or even a virtual community? How do culture and perceptions change these things? Who has the right to make the rules - the evolving community, the leaders, the most vocal speakers? Should elected officials, leaders or lone voices be allowed to dictate terms overriding the will of the evolving community? For example we have political groups that ban or threaten films, try to morally police women and youth. Is manipulation or threats in the name of culture and modesty right?
Lets have a fun discussion. I'm curious to see what everybody's views are on these issues. 😃
PS: If you followed my Sunny Leone Debate on BS you probably know that I like to spice up the topic
Here are some photo shoot scandals to get your thinking juices flowing
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gg3YlB9MFM[/YOUTUBE]
Lets push it
Lets push it
This time the discussion is about perceptions, culture and censorship. Where and why do we draw the lines of decency? What is acceptable and unacceptable? What is appropriate on screen, on television, in our houses and what is forbidden? Who makes those choices? How do these perceptions change?
Initially when the forum was discussing The Dirty Picture, I was shocked that some people deemed it to be po*nographic or at least soft po*n. po*nography is something crude and extremely graphic. Sex is shown very explicitly solely for the purpose of providing sexual gratification and catering to human fantasies. Plot, story, aesthetics, class often don't matter in po*n. So it somewhat shocks the moral sensibilities when something is classified as po*nography simply because it portrays a woman whose character is sultry, sensual and seductive. What makes something po*nographic anyways?
The first time I watched a European film, I was surprised by a scene of full frontal male nudity. Having watched some more, both male and female nudity are quite matter of fact. The exposure is not always sexual in nature, but more casual. None of these films had censorship issues. They were released in theaters in their countries without much ado. I was even pleasantly surprised that Israeli films also had no qualms with sex and nudity. It has always made me wonder why is Indian cinema and even US Cinema to a certain extent so afraid of sex and nudity? Even when it is po*nographic but fit with a story, it is treated as obscene? Is it really that obscene or does the perversion lie in us drawing obscene conclusions of something that is anything but.
Next comes the topic of censorship. Is it right to cut these clips or censor them. Just give it the appropriate certification. Should it not left to viewer discretion to decide what they wish to see. The most extreme part of censorship is banning. The Indian censor board in my opinion has always played willy nilly with mindless censorship and bans. However, the one that struck me as most absurd was the ban on "The Girl with The Dragon Tatoo" on the grounds of a graphic rape scene and a lovemaking scene. Both extremely relevant to developing the central character.
Here we are as a country facing a rape crisis in many parts, brutal gang rape sometimes. And on the other hand we are hesitant to show rape. Moreover, it wasn't some rape po*n fantasy that could be justifiably censored. In fact you have a feminist character who prevails despite rape, fights back and does not let the rape affect her sexual desires and sex life. Why would you ban a character and a movie that is about fighting and prevailing despite horrendous circumstances? If a movie were to be made about a real rape victim, should the audience not know the truth of what happened and experience a little bit of that trauma?
Speaking of censorship, what of censorship on the internet - the thousand words that make the pictures. Like on the forums and bulletin boards. Most forums I've visited followed the NC-17 rule. Since international law requires registering members to be 16 and older, the NC-17 rule made the most common practical sense. As long as it was not po*nographic, graphically violent or hateful (like promoting the KKK not bashing Bollywood's KKK). Rogue groups like 4Chan etc don't follow censorship telling anyone who gets offended to leave while forums like Somethingawful actually have adult subsections. India Forums on the other hand has a very arbitrary family forum policy.
What should the censorship policy on forums be - aligned with practical measures like NC-17 or more arbitrary like family forum that tries to cater to shifting sensitivities? In either case where and how do the lines get drawn?
In a final broader sense - what decides what is appropriate and inappropriate - be it a nation, a town, a community or even a virtual community? How do culture and perceptions change these things? Who has the right to make the rules - the evolving community, the leaders, the most vocal speakers? Should elected officials, leaders or lone voices be allowed to dictate terms overriding the will of the evolving community? For example we have political groups that ban or threaten films, try to morally police women and youth. Is manipulation or threats in the name of culture and modesty right?
Lets have a fun discussion. I'm curious to see what everybody's views are on these issues. 😃
PS: If you followed my Sunny Leone Debate on BS you probably know that I like to spice up the topic
Here are some photo shoot scandals to get your thinking juices flowing
Kabhi Neem Neem Kabhi Shahad Shahad
Debate Mansion
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