The Beauty, the Beast and the Fool - Page 5

@Jzee: True...a huge part of it is definitely Gulaal's miscalculation in not understanding WHY Kesar always listens to her and she can samjhao him always as she is so confident about...to her just the end result was what she had supreme confidence in...that Kesar will always listen to her sooner or later and yes for good reason maybe because it was very true...he did...but she never thought to understand WHY...again, because she was still trapped in the past...she never outgrew that...she still viewed him as the 'child' who will listen to whatever she tells him...that is why it's a character flaw in some ways...that Gulaal actually expected Kesar's "obedience" towards her to THIS level...to not even ask him about his choice about who he wants to marry...just saying, "Meri baat maan naa...meri baat maan naa"...such oversimplification from Gulaal on a topic that was wayyy too complex beyond her comprehension. I guess I'd rephrase it as her greatest miscalculation being her lack of foresight in understanding that Kesar WILL grow up into his own individual with his own mind more than ever...He will not just be a "ziddi baccha" that she can easily manaao in the same way she always did...many many times, Gulaal didn't give him enough credit for that...that is the flaw I'm talking about and again, it's part of the brilliance of the storyline how those threads were woven in.

I think an implicit confidence in herself is one of Gulaal's defining traits as a woman...one of her most impressive qualities and yet when it comes to Kesar especially, that very quality ended up miscalculating a lot.

[QUOTE=

Dear Nur , interesting observation ! I have this to add as I read it again :
@blue : yes she tried to make his marriage decision, but even this I will let go thinking that in those days many elders tried to choose the spouses for the youngsters on whom they considered their right - but I am more with what you mention @ red : the fact that Kesar WILL grow up one day and to me the most important miscalculation she made is that not only will he grow up , he will also fall in love with her !! That was beyond her wildest imaginations and beyond all her calulations and miscalculations ! Such is life , and such is its beautiful reflection in this show !

VJ

@Jzee: LOL sure I can do caps for that bit :-)

Originally posted by: VJ-LNMDJ

Dear Nur , interesting observation ! I have this to add as I read it again :
@blue : yes she tried to make his marriage decision, but even this I will let go thinking that in those days many elders tried to choose the spouses for the youngsters on whom they considered their right - but I am more with what you mention @ red : the fact that Kesar WILL grow up one day and to me the most important miscalculation she made is that not only will he grow up , he will also fall in love with her !! That was beyond her wildest imaginations and beyond all her calulations and miscalculations ! Such is life , and such is its beautiful reflection in this show !

VJ

Yes, it is interconnected on a level, VJ...1) she never REALLY understood the full ramifications of Kesar growing up...so many times MB tried to tell her, but Gulaal didn't COMPREHEND...it's like she thought even when Kesar grows up or even when he's HUNDRED, he will only listen to HER...as if age didn't matter, Kesar was only ever expected to listen to HER..."meri baat maan naa, Kesar...meri baat maan naa"

And yes, she never in her wildest dreams thought that he'd fall in love with her...which is why she continued to chalk up any change in his behavior to his "ziddiness" or his "nakhre"...

I think this was maybe discussed once before but I don't recall clearly but what would Gulaal's reaction have been if it wasn't her but someone else that Kesar was in love with? Would she still force Talli on him? Because this is two-pronged in a sense...Gulaal continued to thrust Talli in Kesar's face for as long as she could manage even AFTER he confessed cuz she didn't believe he really loved her...in her "perfect" world inside her head, she had paired up KT since forever so she couldn't think any other way...if it was some other person, would she have done the same? Would she have told Kesar, no that's not the girl for you, marry Talli..."meri baat maan naa, Kesar"?

Originally posted by: nureat01

@Jzee: LOL sure I can do caps for that bit :-)




Yes, it is interconnected on a level, VJ...1) she never REALLY understood the full ramifications of Kesar growing up...so many times MB tried to tell her, but Gulaal didn't COMPREHEND...it's like she thought even when Kesar grows up or even when he's HUNDRED, he will only listen to HER...as if age didn't matter, Kesar was only ever expected to listen to HER..."meri baat maan naa, Kesar...meri baat maan naa"

And yes, she never in her wildest dreams thought that he'd fall in love with her...which is why she continued to chalk up any change in his behavior to his "ziddiness" or his "nakhre"...

I think this was maybe discussed once before but I don't recall clearly but what would Gulaal's reaction have been if it wasn't her but someone else that Kesar was in love with? Would she still force Talli on him? Because this is two-pronged in a sense...Gulaal continued to thrust Talli in Kesar's face for as long as she could manage even AFTER he confessed cuz she didn't believe he really loved her...in her "perfect" world inside her head, she had paired up KT since forever so she couldn't think any other way...if it was some other person, would she have done the same? Would she have told Kesar, no that's not the girl for you, marry Talli..."meri baat maan naa, Kesar"?

."it's like she thought even when Kesar grows up or even when he's HUNDRED," 🤣 I get it !

"And yes, she never in her wildest dreams thought that he'd fall in love with her...which is why she continued to chalk up any change in his behavior to his "ziddiness" or his "nakhre"..." you are right , his love was so difficult for her to accept that she was even willing to accept (when she came back after his complaint to the panchayat ) that there was something outright "bad" in his motive and he wanted her as a woman (looking back , how COULD she think that of Kesar and accuse him so, poor thing he was so taken aback ,remember)...even that motive was acceptable to her but not that he could actually be in love with her ! I wonder what exactly was her problem at that time - that she considered it wrong and a "paap" (as she herself called it) or was there also a subconscious disbelief that anything happy could also come her way and she could accept it (as Kesar later accused her , of wronging the woman in her, the night before he went to Panchayat again to set her free - and which by the way again showed that Kesar understood her more than she herself did)...

About the Tally point ...hmmm...good one...I think like old time "elders" , some of whom I have encountered in my joint family , if he married a girl of her choice he was still "hers" (Gulaal's) in the sense of she choosing his future wife as a girl she liked and trusted ...in case he loved another girl , I dont know , may be Gulaal wud try to convince and then give up and accept Kesar's choice - but in this third case of that "girl other than Talli" turning out to be Gulaal herself - it was beyond Gulaal again ! We saw how trumped she was ! That was the greatest shocker of her life and she tried to deny it to the very end ...she was almost taking more than 27th August to accept it !😊

VJ

P.S. and on the Mota bha telling her part , I must catch up on that part of the show - I missed a lot of Ali- Mansi parts and now one thread is re-watching episodes before that and the other is re-watching episodes after that ! 😊 and I so want to watch it with you all and not alone !

@VJ: There were two main scenes...the first is right after Kesar gets drunk on bhaang at Holi and publicly tries to order Gulaal around as his wife...this is the first major warning sign to MB and he tells Gulaal clearly as well...I can't find that vid on YT anymore

But here's the second one...this is when MB tries to explain to Gulaal more clearly but Gulaal still doesn't really get it

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBrKq6SPb3k[/YOUTUBE]


And yes, the problem for Gulaal became greater when SHE turned out to be the woman Kesar loved...so again it was guilt on many layers...1) that Kesar wasn't agreeing to marry Talli and 2) Cuz he loved HER i.e. Gulaal...she probably felt she was betraying Talli more than ever.

And I do wonder on some level about what Gulaal's exact thought process on it was too...they never over-specified WHAT exactly was the paap to her...that Kesar was younger? That Kesar was Vasant's brother? That she had known Kesar since he was a child? Or the option that I personally think...which is that this was a REAL chance at love...unlike ppl like Dushyant that she could shun for daring to make overtures towards her...It's open to a bit of interpretation on some level based on Gulaal's expressions and reactions...

Originally posted by: nureat01

@VJ: There were two main scenes...the first is right after Kesar gets drunk on bhaang at Holi and publicly tries to order Gulaal around as his wife...this is the first major warning sign to MB and he tells Gulaal clearly as well...I can't find that vid on YT anymore

But here's the second one...this is when MB tries to explain to Gulaal more clearly but Gulaal still doesn't really get it

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBrKq6SPb3k[/YOUTUBE]


And yes, the problem for Gulaal became greater when SHE turned out to be the woman Kesar loved...so again it was guilt on many layers...1) that Kesar wasn't agreeing to marry Talli and 2) Cuz he loved HER i.e. Gulaal...she probably felt she was betraying Talli more than ever.

And I do wonder on some level about what Gulaal's exact thought process on it was too...they never over-specified WHAT exactly was the paap to her...that Kesar was younger? That Kesar was Vasant's brother? That she had known Kesar since he was a child? Or the option that I personally think...which is that this was a REAL chance at love...unlike ppl like Dushyant that she could shun for daring to make overtures towards her...It's open to a bit of interpretation on some level based on Gulaal's expressions and reactions...

My God , what a scene ! thanks a ton for posting it - I must really catch up with such Ali (Kesar) scenes to understand the full implications of later scenes ... these are in a way very much part of the post-leap scenes ..You are right , Mota bha had warned Gulaal in no uncertain terms . look at the man's foresight .

And - I froze at his words ,when he tells her "Tu aaj ke baare mein soch rahi hai aur main kal ki PARESHANI ke baare mein soch rahaa hun! " ...and , ofcourse the now famous words came rushing back to me : "Kya hai teri Pareshani ?" ... ..."Meri pareshani tu hai Gulaal !" ...

Way to go CV's ...I almost have a chill running down my spine ...what underlying linkages running deeper and deeper , everytime you look at them...

VJ

@VJ: LOL ditto...even I got major deja vu when MB said PARESHAANI...truly this show has tied up a lot of threads so brilliantly...MB's words to Gulaal were a major foreshadowing...premonition of the coming days but Gulaal didn't comprehend.