Japan Tsunami - Why ? Just Pray

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_Angie_

@_Angie_

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Posted: 14 years ago

#61

^^ Disciplined yes, but i wouldnt say non attached. They did grieve for the dead and lost but did not stop there. They knew that a lot of work was to be done for those that survived and acted in a pragmatic way. we could say that they accepted the situation and moved on the best they could.

I cannot comment on karma in this case.

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Summer3

@Summer3

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Posted: 14 years ago

#62

Originally posted by: angie.4u
^^ Disciplined yes, but i wouldnt say non attached. They did grieve for the dead and lost but did not stop there. They knew that a lot of work was to be done for those that survived and acted in a pragmatic way. we could say that they accepted the situation and moved on the best they could.
I cannot comment on karma in this case.

Quakes have rocked many countries and those living in the Quake prone areas know only too well. Every 50 or 100 years they may get a super big one.

That could be the karma of the location too.

Just like the little island of Singapore too, a large tsunami is enough to sink us. Has not happened so far but I will not count it out.

Yes they were disciplined and stoic too. For ordinary persons they have done very well. A bit of tears is only natural.

There are monks who often do not live up to their names and accumulate wealth instead.

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thickhead

@thickhead

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Posted: 14 years ago

#63

Summer ji, Karma is an abstract concept - a mere philosophy that has no grounding in empirical science. Everybody has the right to maintain and nurture his/her faith but don't think it's wise to use these notions to explain/justify real world phenomenon as there's always a chance that sensibilities and sensitivities of some, particularly those who don't ascribe to ur belief system, can get hurt. Im sure nobody from or in Japan would be amused by or even entertain your idea that seems to convey that Japanese are paying for their past misdeeds.

The argument of "Karma" has as much merit as saying "skirt cause quakes" (as stated in an earlier post) or saying that Dragons are the cause for solar flares - its just an ill-defined, unverifiable view point.

Iin 2008, Sharon Stone gave a similar statement - that China earthquake (that caused abt 80K casualties) might've been due to China's opprssive regime and its Tibettan policy - the statement was considered insensitive, universally condemned and finally she had to tender an apology.

Edited by thickhead - 14 years ago

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Summer3

@Summer3

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Posted: 14 years ago

#64

Yea not everthing is Fate but all actions have consequences unless we are able to surrender the fruits.
Sadly we are all prisoners of Good n Bad Karma. The universe operates on the principle of karma and as we make our bed so must we lie it.
It could be the karma of a location to have plenty of volcanoes and if we hang around there surely the chances of meeting the Creator is higher.
For Japanese misdeeds of the second world war I am sure it has already been paid for with the Atomic Bomb being dropped in the two locations.
But US too could have overdone it or killed the wrong persons and so more karma would be created.
At this rate sadly our rebirth is guaranteed.

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thickhead

@thickhead

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Posted: 14 years ago

#65

Originally posted by: Summer3
Yea not everthing is Fate but all actions have consequences unless we are able to surrender the fruits.
Sadly we are all prisoners of Good n Bad Karma. The universe operates on the principle of karma and as we make our bed so must we lie it.
It could be the karma of a location to have plenty of volcanoes and if we hang around there surely the chances of meeting the Creator is higher.
For Japanese misdeeds of the second world war I am sure it has already been paid for with the Atomic Bomb being dropped in the two locations.
But US too could have overdone it or killed the wrong persons and so more karma would be created.
At this rate sadly our rebirth is guaranteed.

What makes you so sure about the "Karma" ? Is this belief based on some solid reason, logic ?

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Summer3

@Summer3

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Posted: 14 years ago

#66

Originally posted by: thickhead

What makes you so sure about the "Karma" ? Is this belief based on some solid reason, logic ?

Good question. Not all is fated and we can change our destiny.
Whether Karma exists is just based on faith.

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thickhead

@thickhead

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Posted: 14 years ago

#67

Originally posted by: Summer3

Good question. Not all is fated and we can change our destiny.
Whether Karma exists is just based on faith.

Exactly Summer ji, the idea of "Karma" is not "the truth" but a mere belief - with no reason, no evidence to support it. It a bland notion that has found place in your psyche probably because you happened to have been brought up in a Hindu family. You are sticking to it just because you like it. Its your preference or a personal choice. A Muslim would not believe it. A Christian would not believe it. An atheist would not believe it. (majority Japanese do not blv in God). And there's no reason, no reason at all, for anybody to believe in it - if you can not prove it, do not propound it.

In fact if you go on telling the Japanese that the calamity that has befallen them is not an accident, rather its a consequence of their past actions - they are more likely to get offended. To an already grief stricken family, whats the need to burden them with guilt of past-wrongdoing ? Y increase their suffering? And all this when you yourself very well know that the "Karma doctrine" is not the truth ? Thats not kind Summer ji and its not required.

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Summer3

@Summer3

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Posted: 14 years ago

#68

Originally posted by: thickhead

Exactly Summer ji, the idea of "Karma" is not "the truth" but a mere belief - with no reason, no evidence to support it. It a bland notion that has found place in your psyche probably because you happened to have been brought up in a Hindu family. You are sticking to it just because you like it. Its your preference or a personal choice. A Muslim would not believe it. A Christian would not believe it. An atheist would not believe it. (majority Japanese do not blv in God). And there's no reason, no reason at all, for anybody to believe in it - if you can not prove it, do not propound it.

In fact if you go on telling the Japanese that the calamity that has befallen them is not an accident, rather its a consequence of their past actions - they are more likely to get offended. To an already grief stricken family, whats the need to burden them with guilt of past-wrongdoing ? Y increase their suffering? And all this when you yourself very well know that the "Karma doctrine" is not the truth ? Thats not kind Summer ji and its not required.

yes it is not nice to say some tragedy or a misfortune is due to karma.

But Asians especially Desis often say that whatever has happened is all due to karma.

Westerners say retribution.

But what happens next is generally decided by what we do now. If we study hard and put in our effort we will often do well ( all things being equal).

Japan being located near the edge of some tectonic plates is more lkely to suffer earthquakes than other countries. China and Indonesia too have suffered earthquakes or other such disasters.

Westerners often refer to karma as the principal of causality or cause and effect. Arguments have been ranging since the time of Aristotle.

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thickhead

@thickhead

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Posted: 14 years ago

#69

Originally posted by: Summer3
yes it is not nice to say some tragedy or a misfortune is due to karma.
But Asians especially Desis often say that whatever has happened is all due to karma.

Westerners say retribution.

Yes, its a common practice but there's a difference between what is usually done and what should be done. In other words, your words explain the habit but still can not justify it. The only point that i was trying to put across was that if there's a statement, of questionable validity, that might upset some ppl then isn't it better to avoid it ? Y give room for conflict ?

Originally posted by: Summer3
Westerners often refer to karma as the principal of causality or cause and effect. Arguments have been ranging since the time of Aristotle.

As per my understanding, (correct me if i'm wrong) Causality and Karma are totally different concepts. Karma applies only to volitional activities (actions that're due to free-will and not some reaction) of animate entities(i.e.only living being) whereas causality is more general - it refers to cause-effect of everything in this universe. Moreover, in Hindu concept of Karma, divine presence or intervention is required to dispense fruits of ones Karma.

The abrahamic faiths have no true concept of Karma; causality is more of science thing where the universe is assumed to be caused (deterministic model) bereft of any kind of free-will. In science, existence of divine is not accepted.

Edited by thickhead - 14 years ago

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Summer3

@Summer3

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Posted: 14 years ago

#70

Yep karma and causality are not the same but Wikipedia treats them as Eastern n Western philosophies. Causality is further expanded to other areas and fields too.

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