Originally posted by: debayon
Do you not understand what I am saying? They did this in the name of religion, and religion is man-made, so it all boils down to religion, no?
I think you are making a fallacious argument that goes "because some evil is done in the name of religion, religion is inherently evil". Your argument is non sequitur, it does not follow. It is like saying "because some horrible accidents are caused by cars, cars are horrible".
Whether it is man made or not is irrelevant. Everything has varying aspects and interpretation. It depends on how the people use it. One can use a knife to slice vegetables for a meal, or two kill someone. Money can be used to help the needy, or indulge in personal vices. Even science can be used to help or heal people through technology and it can be used to kill and destroy too. We don't ban science because of the negative aspects like nuclear bombs, biological and chemical warfare. There is a positive side to it.
Religion is the same. There are positive, negative and neutral aspects of it. Yes, people do kill, destroy and harm others in the name of religion. At the same time people serve, donate, volunteer in the name of religion too. Sometimes religion is at best, simply a personal belief. No harm or benefit is done as people keep it to themselves.
Simply because there are negative aspects to religion does not mean that religion on the whole is a terrible thing. If you need to criticize religion, criticize only the negative aspects. Terrorism in the name of God is vile, and indeed you must criticize it. Casteism, oppression of women, xenophobia, homophobia, discrimination, hatred - such crimes are committed in the name of religion and it is wrong. The problem is not in the religion but in how these people are interpreting the religion. So focus on the crimes and the people who do the wrong and not the entire religion.
Even rational texts founded to be guidance pillars of law and reason have various interpretations. Take the US constitution. At one time the constitution was interpreted to justify segregation, to deny women the right to vote. Today it is interpreted differently. Different political groups interpret it differently, different justices on the supreme court have interpreted it differently. Similarly even the religious texts are interpreted differently by different people.
Now you may question why religion, when there is science. Different people need different things to find meaning in life. The yearning to find answers, to find deeper meaning and find where we fit in the world is a universal human quest. In fact it has been scientifically proven that humans show such thought process. However, the way humans fulfill this is different. Some depend on rationality, that is the scientific process of hypothesis and proofs to methodically distill facts to the right conclusion. Some depend on society, finding meaning in being part of a family, a culture, community, finding identity in being a part of a whole. Others depend on spirituality, focusing on more abstract concepts of faith, metaphysical concepts like body and soul. Just like students learn in different ways visual, auditory, kinesthetic - similarly people have their human needs answered in different ways. Religion exists to fulfill some of those needs.
Organized religion which is stringently doctrinal and hierarchical maybe man made. However, the truth of the matter is faith based religion which is a personal belief system is intrinsic to human nature. God cannot be proven or disproved. We can only believe in God's existence, non existence, or be open to both notions of God's notions. In that sense even atheism is nothing but a personal belief system that believes that there is no God and that perhaps all of life's unanswered mysteries can be eventually proven someday by scientific thought. Even an atheist or scientist today cannot make a claim beyond any doubt that science will absolutely and totally hold the key to every answer and nothing beyond science will ever be needed. Being a personal belief system atheism also becomes a personal religion. When atheists organize themselves to rally against other belief systems (religion/spirituality) pushing the doctrine of science and having organizational hierarchy it becomes organized religion. And when atheism runs down and calls other belief systems as BS and claims that atheism and only atheism is the right way - then atheism becomes just like any other religious fanaticism.
Now you claim to have "studied" religion. But I would say you have probably merely scratched the doctrinal surface. Not much different from people who simply read doctrine and follow it without understanding. If you had actually studied religion as in proper theology as well as anthropological aspects of it you would at least look at religion in a more open minded neutral light instead of all negative and all positive.
Man did not create religion for any particular reason. Due to the intrinsic faith of some humans, personal belief systems occurred. Personal belief systems were interchanged and faith evolved. As faith evolved and people interacted more certain common threads began to form religious belief systems that later in time became "religions" as we might know them today. There really was no "creationism" in religion but in fact a matter of "evolution".
Theology and anthropology of religion will also show that religion was never rigidly doctrinal. It was very open and interpretative, and based on personal belief. It was only those who sought power made it hierarchical and doctrinal. You can view it as the open source vs Microsoft of theology.
Religion also does not "promise" any rigid "reward" or "salvation". People interpret the texts to mean certain things. What you hear of as Nirvana, Moksha, Salvation, Atonement etc are all popular interpretations - perceived as facts by those who believe.
If you study Vedanta theory in Hinduism there are various theories on the universe. There are theistic as well as atheistic interpretations. Even within the theistic interpretations there are notions of dualism as well as singularity. Ancient Vedic texts also discuss philosophical, spiritual, as well as scientific theories and experiments of understanding the universe. Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) or Sufi (Islamic mysticism) hold very mystical and philosophical views on religion where rather than doctrine and worship the focus is on philosophical approach to belief. While philosophy may not be science, it is well known and accepted that philosophy is a very rational and structured way of thinking. There is room for philosophical thought in all religions. Science deals with the physical worlds and hard facts. Religious philosophy deals with metaphysical words, spirituality and understanding abstract truths like our feelings, beliefs, emotions, connectivity with the universe. Religion is not always just a bunch of blind faith mumbo jumbo of no reason - there actually is room for a lot of thought and thinking for those who choose to. Its just that the deeper aspects of religion and philosophy are not for everyone. Just like quantum physics is not for all scientists, some dont get it.
I'm not religious and consider myself a heathen at best. I'm very much against organized religion too. I do believe in God though and do feel that the world would be better if religion was not such a divisive factor. However, I don't think religion, faith, belief or spirituality is wrong or speak against it. I follow the simple motto "And it harm none, do as thou will". I don't care if someone believes that dancing naked around their dining table will help them find God or that they should never wear pink underwear - it does not harm anyone. So let them do as they wish. I will however, have a problem if people think sacrificing babies on their dining table will help them find God or that I should never wear pink underwear. The point is there are various aspects of faith, I don't understand and never will. I will question it and maybe even chuckle at it, but I respect that people have their choice to believe and wholeheartedly support it. It is only and only when they choose to harm others, take away the rights of others and do disservice to humanity that I will take objection. Irrespective of religion or any other differentiating factor the ability to be good or to be evil depends on the human, nothing else.
Kumkum Bhagya
