Rituals, Culture & Tradition

We have a thread to discuss Ramdan and the significance/history/meaning of rituals surrounding it. Within the topic many people expressed interest and curiosity to know about other rituals and traditions followed by various religions/cultures or people. Some people felt that there was an unfair singling out of one tradition.

So this thread is created for everyone to freely ask, answer and learn about religious, cultural and various other rituals and customs they are curious about and want to expand their horizons. Most of us here are from various religions and can hopefully cover the various religions. There are many of us living in India, USA, UK and other parts and can give insights into rituals and customs of countries. Hopefully, there is someone out there to shed light on all questions. If not I am sure we can all research together and understand things. If any one ritual or subject becomes a large focus I can consider moving it to a new topic as needed.

This thread is intended for a healthy interchange so lets keep it at that. Those people asking questions, be open minded and respectful. Even when critiquing something you disagree with or don't understand, be empathetic to the other side and don't engage in bashing or putting down. Sometimes somethings cannot be explained well and it is a matter of faith, belief and various factors instead of a step by step conclusion. Those answering questions please remember that no one is intentionally trying to single you or put you down, its just honest curiosity. Some people may not understand, or agree with your explanations and may question it. You don't have to convince the other person fully, you just explain to your best understanding and be prepared to accept disagreements and that not everyone will get it completely.

Here's to a healthy discussion and hoping that I don't have to douse to many forest fires - just a few itty bitty harmless sparks maybe.

Wow, you guys really want to see some sparks on the forum, don't you? 😆 Thanks for the thread, Sarina! Hopefully we can all be civil ...

Originally posted by: *Woh Ajnabee*

Wow, you guys really want to see some sparks on the forum, don't you? 😆 Thanks for the thread, Sarina! Hopefully we can all be civil ...

Hey, i am just trying to be good and do the right thing here. I can't help it if POH and me (POH really) are considered highly reactive and flammable. We all cannot be like helium and argon here.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

Hey, i am just trying to be good and do the right thing here. I can't help it if POH and me (POH really) are considered highly reactive and flammable. We all cannot be like helium and argon here.

😆well if u inhale helium by mistake it will make u quack like a duck for a little while...so helium is not all that bad😆😆
😆

I'm interested....so which custom are we now talking about?

Well, just the kind of thread I am looking for...

Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath

I'm interested....so which custom are we now talking about?

We have not started on any particular custom yet. Waiting for someone to ask questions they have on any custom etc.

okay, why are muslims expected to eat mutton and christians turkey? 🤔

Very interesting question Persy. Really introspective to see how we define and perceive some of these terms. It will be interesting to see how everyone answers and sees these things.

Originally posted by: persistence

Well, just the kind of thread I am looking for...

I have three questions:

These are my personal opinions on these concepts and how I view these questions.

1) Is it fair to lump traditional and conservative and modern and liberal together, to mean one and the same? What does the word traditional mean, anyways? Heck, what do any of these labels mean?

The way I see it traditional is someone who adheres to several social, cultural, national and religious traditions that have been passed on for generations. Modern is someone who has adapted or changed few traditions to what they feel is more relevant to todays times.

Conservative and Liberal can be political as well as social terms. I'm taking it in social context in this issue. Conservatives are people who are set in ways and not very adaptive to social change and new thinking. Liberals are people who tend to be dynamic and highly receptive to social change and new thinking.

Ultimately these are just labels trying to classify human thought and people cannot really be labeled so easily. But we do tend to fall in somewhat broad categories and it makes addressing viewpoints easier I think. Most people are a blend of the traditional and modern, conservative and liberal finding their personal balance between the two.

2. Is being conservative "wrong"? Well, I know it is not wrong. Yet, I can't seem to wrap my head around conservatism. Let me try with an examples. Lets take these topics (looking at it from a "typical Indian's perspective") -- pro life, no pre-marital sex, no drinking/smoking (in case of women), not wearing short dresses, changing family name after one is married etc. --- If someone is for all these, is that person considered a conservative? or just traditional? Is the only difference between being conservative and liberal is that personal/individual choice is valued in the latter? Is there a lack of "I get to decide for the group" mentality when I considers himself/herself liberal? I don't know if this one is making sense. For example, If I am of the opinion that everything is a personal choice, and yet would be for pro-life (when it comes to myself), etc. what does that make me? lol.

To me there is nothing wrong with sticking to conservative values. However, conservatism in this context I feel is wrong. People should be steering towards being traditional rather than being rigidly conservative. I respect conservative values and have deep regard for people who have strong traditions when it comes to sex, alcohol, family and marriage etc. However, I think it is wrong when these people choose to be the social and moral police, judging people for different choices or trying to force all of society to follow a certain set pattern.

A lot of these things are personal choices. A person has the right to choose what they wear and whether to drink or smoke. When of age they have the right to choose with whom they want to have sex and when. No one should be dictating or judging the choices of others.

At the same time I have a strong problem with extreme liberals who look down on people with conservative values as old fashioned or backward. Sometimes I think liberals push the lines when they try to get religions and cultures to redefine their faiths and belief to conform to liberalism. If people are against pre-marital sex, drinking, smoking etc we ought to respect their choices, and they out to respect the choices of people who choose otherwise.

The clash I see in todays society is both conservatives and liberals are trying to push their viewpoints on another and no one is genuinely respecting the principal of personal choice. Although in countries like USA I feel the religious right has the upper hand in the way they define marriage, the pledge of allegiance, their stance on creationism, abortion etc and I think the laws need to move towards a more each his own place.

3. Does any one have experience with being torn between cultures? How do you deal with it? Reset your own boundaries? In my case, I am of the opinion that everything is personal choice (esp. when it comes to topics listed in #2), and a lot of those (like drinking/smoking/changing family name after marriage), I don't do (and perhaps don't want to either), and yet these restrictions have been in place (culturally engrained) by family/culture etc. So, I want to rebel -- seek freedom, if you may, and yet there is family to deal with, which doesn't "let" one rebel. So, I guess I won't. So, how does one gain that freedom (to set one's own boundaries), and keep parents happy? Is the latter an idea, only indians worry about?

I think each and every one of us desis living abroad has this conflict of being between two cultures. One one hand we have parents and relatives who have a certain desi culture and expectation in mind, on the other hand we live, study and work abroad where there is a western culture and expectation. There is no cut and dry answer to this, it really depends from individual to individual and the family dynamics they have. Some families tend to be more forgiving of rebellion, while some families tend to be much more harsh with rebellion. Even amidst siblings in the same family the degree and choice of rebellion varies.

My family is pretty easy going with most things and encourages us to mingle and be part of western society as long as we know our roots and traditions. But yes there are challenges and conflicts and barriers. I think instead of blaming parents or arguing with them the key is to prove responsibility and gain your parents trust that you can be allowed to do things that may not comply fully with tradition but you will never go astray or betray their trust.

When between a rock and a hard place I ask myself, will I be fine making this sacrifice, mope for a bit and then get over it and move on - or is this something I really want and am I going to resent my parents for the rest of my life and question what if. If its a smaller trivial thing, I choose family. But if its a matter of my whole life - I'd rather upset them now than live a life of regret and resentment. Sometimes we have to make our own bad choices, our share of mistakes and learn than let others dictate our lives and never know.

The keeping parents happy is not just an Indian thing. It is sad that many of us Indians feel we are culturally alone. Has anyone seen Big Fat Greek Wedding? Remember how much trouble Toula goes through with her marriage and keeping her dad happy. Its largely mostly North America and some parts of Europe that are individualistic cultures. Most Europeans, Asians, South Americans and Africans have collectivist cultures where family is everything and face similar culture clash challenges.

Persy


I'm curious to see how you answer these Persy.

Originally posted by: old-black-joe

okay, why are muslims expected to eat mutton and christians turkey? 🤔

Those are stereotyping myths OBJ.

Muslims can eat a wide variety of meats as long as it conforms to the prescribed halal standards. Pork is the biggest no no. I'm sure Muslims can elaborate more on halal standards if you are interested.

Turkey is a bird native to the North American continent and Christians did not even know about Turkey till the time of European settlers came to America. They learned to eat Turkey from the natives. And Turkey is a North American food and not a Christian food. We can elaborate on Thanksgiving with which Turkey is associated with if you are interested.