The Kashmir Valley and India & others... - Page 15

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479445 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
I realised that I dont have to explain anything ... everything have been explained many times ... and if anyone wanted to understand they would.

However, my recent posts are not directed at anyone ... there were articles about how USA kicked Modi out ... how the German Parliament Members deligation declared Modi a brutal dictator. How the EU are trying to come to a consensus to ban all entry of Modi and his supporters. And how recently BSF have been declared a paramilitary force spreading terror (the article I provided uses very respectful words.... please browse google and read indiatimes or hindustan times on the language used by Canada towards BSF). By the way, everything is available on the net if anyone wants to perform further research.

I have not used on single foul language ... and I have witnessed a total overflowing foul language....and the proof is available if anyone cares to browse through the thread.

There is nothing called UNITED INDIA ... India broke at the time of its birth ... its just a product of the British Crown now ... a very well devised product.

In any condition ... my interest in argument is not that great ... as I have said all that I had to ...

Bush and Modi are different ... and I will not explain this. Because its too obvious ... those who wanna know they can make their own classifications.

Just posting some news from time and again as long as the thread remains open.

God bless.
Edited by Ice-Thinker - 15 years ago
hindu4lyf thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago

Originally posted by: missbubbly04



kashmiri pandits 😆 , some of the "kashmiris are killed due to terrorist organizations😆😆😆 . ROFL, where do u live dude. where do u get those fabricated and false news. have you ever ever seen kashmiris protesting against Indian government. have you ever seen a crying kashmiri lady , crying for the brutal death of her husband , and son . no! u didn't . but i did. u know the one slogan they all have when they protest is "lay kay raheingay azaaadi " and "kashmir ban kay rahega Pakistan". that is the reason their leader(Syed Gilani) wanted to be with Pakistan.and kashmiris should move out ... why ?? India is the one who is occupying kashmir and it is not Indian kashmir , it is "occupied Kashmir" so India should move out of the kashmir boundaries. nobody will leave his home , when someone else brutally tries to occupy his home. right??? so why should they leave. India has been occupying Kashmir since 1947. the referundum promise by Indian government is still not fulfilled.



Before you hurry to reply back to me, how about your read my post once again, but a little slowly this time? 😉 I never said kashmiris are killed due to terrorist organisations did I? No I didn't think so hun. 😊 In fact I said those involved in the increasing number of terrorist organisations in kashmir are creating problems and killing many many people.

and yes I have seen the absolute hatred some kashmiris have for india, but your claim about them wanting to be part of pakistan is not correct. Yes syed gilani 🤢 wanted this to happen but not all kashmiris do, there are many different separist leaders and all seem to have their own plans with what they want to see happening to kashmir. Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, the gurkhas are fighting for a seperate land too and just yesterday it was announced that a rival separists party killed the senior leader of another party.

You talk about people crying for their husbands in kashmir, what about those thousands of soldiers doing their job and fighting for their country who didn't return home safely that night. Everything works two ways my friend 😉
I don't think the situation is as bad as it could be though..I mean yes it is bad but it has improved slightly because India wouldn't have withdrawn 30,000 soldiers from kashmir less than 6 months ago if things were getting worse 😉
Summer3 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
Well here is an article for Kashmir Freedom Fighters. Few are optimistic about the return to peace.

"Nearly half of those interviewed said they wanted independence. "

'First' Kashmir survey produces 'startling' results

Page last updated at 0:45 GMT, Thursday, 27 May 2010 1:45 UK

By Alastair Lawson BBC News Indian soldiers in Indian-administered Kashmi Few Kashmiris are optimistic over the chances for peace

A survey which a British academic says is the first systematic attempt to establish the opinions of Kashmiris has produced "striking results".

Robert Bradnock interviewed more than 3,700 people in Indian- and Pakistani-administered Kashmir to assess their views on various issues.

One of the key questions put to respondents was how they saw the future of the territory.

Nearly half of those interviewed said they wanted independence.

Another question asked for their views over the continuing insurgency.

Dr Bradnock - an associate fellow at the Chatham House think-tank in London - says that the survey has produced startling conclusions, especially in relation to the future of the territory.

No 'simple fixes'

It revealed that on average 44% of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favoured independence, compared with 43% in Indian-administered Kashmir.

"However while this is the most popular option overall, it fails to carry an overall majority on either side.

"In fact on the Indian side of the Line of Control [LoC] - which separates the two regions - opinions are heavily polarised," Dr Bradnock told the BBC.

Journalists take cover during a clash in Srinagar (file photo) The Kashmir insurgency has raged for 20 years

The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people want a solution to the dispute, even though there are no "simple fixes".

Dr Bradnock said that in the Kashmir valley - the mainly Muslim area at the centre of the insurgency - support for independence is between 74% and 95%.

But in the predominantly Hindu Jammu division to the south, support is under 1%.

Other findings include:

    80% of Kashmiris on both sides of the LoC say that the dispute is important to them personally Concern over human rights abuses stands at 43% on the Indian side and 19% on the Pakistani side Concern over unemployment is strong across the territory - 66% on the Pakistani side and 87% on the Indian side
  • Few are optimistic over peace talks - only 27% on the Pakistani side and 57% on the Indian side thought they would succeed.

Dr Bradnock said that it was "clear" that a plebiscite on the future of Kashmir - along the lines envisaged in UN resolutions of 1948-49 - is "extremely unlikely to offer a solution today".

"The results of the polls show that that there is no single proposition for the future of Kashmir which could be put to the population... and get majority support," he said.

"The poll offers no simple fixes but offers signposts - through which the political process, engaging India, Pakistan and wider Kashmiri representation - could move it towards resolution."

200467 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago

Just 2% of people in J&K want to join Pak: Survey

TNN, May 28, 2010, 01.00am IST
NEW DELHI: For those who still think a plebiscite will tilt the status of Kashmir and that most Kashmiris yearn to wave the Pakistani green, there are now numbers for the first time to contradict these claims.

A survey carried out across both Jammu and Kashmir and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, that its author claims is the first ever of its kind, shows that only 2% of the respondents on the Indian side favour joining Pakistan and most such views were confined to Srinagar and Budgam districts. In six of the districts surveyed late last year by researchers from the London-based thinktank Chatham House, not a single person favoured annexation with Pakistan, a notion that remains the bedrock for the hardline separate campaign in Kashmir.

However, the study by Robert Bradrock, a scholar from London's Kings College, that involved interviewing 3,774 people in both parts of Kashmir in September-October 2009 showed that 44% of people on the Pakistani side favoured independence, compared to 43% in Indian Kashmir.

Bradrock says in the 37-page report on the survey that this would put an end for all times to come to the plebiscite route as a possible way to resolve Kashmir, since the only two options envisaged under the UN resolutions proposing plebiscite in 1948/49 were for the whole of Kashmir to join either India or Pakistan; azadi was not an option. But in the Valley, the mood for azadi still remained strong, with 75%-95% respondents favouring that as a final resolution.

The poll showed no support either for joint sovereignty or for maintaining status quo. However, more than 58% of those surveyed were prepared to accept the Line of Control as a permanent border if it could be liberalized for greater people-to-people contact and trade. Only 8% voted against making the LoC a permanent boundary, with the highest level of opposition in Anantnag district, the report said.

Few people in Kashmir, compared to many more in PoK, believed that violence was likely to resolve the Kashmir issue.

In J&K, only 20% thought that militant violence would help solve the problem, compared to nearly 40% who thought it was coming in the way of a resolution. In PoK, 37% of those surveyed held the view that violence was a possible route to resolution.

That both the state legislative elections in 2008 and the Lok Sabha elections in 2009 had helped bring about a change in mindsets was seen in the increasingly high turnouts that Kashmir has posted in recent years.

The survey too demonstrated that trend, with more than half the respondents saying the elections had improved chances for peace.

"The results aren't surprising at all. I feel they re-emphasize the need to look beyond traditional positions and evaluate the contours of a solution grounded in today's realities," said Sajjad Lone, a former ally of the Hurriyat who unsuccessfully contested the 2009 election.

Peoples Democratic Party chief spokesman Naeem Akhtar said the azadi aspirations must be factored into any solution.

"It can't be wished away and has to be configured into the future strategy on Kashmir. We've always been pleading to provide an alternative to the azadi sentiment."
Edited by Gauri_3 - 15 years ago
pogo thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago

Kashmiris know that going for Independent Kashmir or Pakistan will be suicidal as they realize they will suffer at the hands of bloody terrorists.
Edited by pogo - 15 years ago
479445 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
Nice info Gauri3.

Infact the Azadi sentiment is what I have been re-emphasizing too. This is the strongest sentiment prevailing not only in PoK, IoK but also in CoK.

I know very well that most Kashmiris have absolutely no interest in joining Pakistan ... and very less interest to join China or India. Infact in one of my post, I did say that Pakistan was out of the question (as their philosophy of religion and state is very different to Kashmiris) and India remains at the lowest bottom of the list .... while China is just occupying a part of Kasmir to show India that its boss!... Its really a mess.

Mr. Lone and his statement is ofcourse welcome ... but thats not the sentiment of Kashmiris. He was never a significant/affective figure.

Anyways ... thanks for this info.
pogo thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago

Originally posted by: Ice-Thinker



Mr. Lone and his statement is ofcourse welcome ... but thats not the sentiment of Kashmiris. He was never a significant/affective figure.



Some never wish to be significant/affective figures when the whole thing that they are lookin at is of least significance😆

About hind/ hindustan. There was India before hindus. Hind is too narrow a term to refer to this nation.

There was a post where it was mentioned why an independent Kashmir is impossible. But the reply was about hind😆

And there is no single significant/affective post here claiming independence of Kashmir😉😆

The whole thread buddy! the whole thread is as significant as the threads in serial forums of IF😉

Have a nice time
Edited by pogo - 15 years ago
479445 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago

Umm ... pogo ... I guess we are looking at news clippings here... and just giving appreciation or a short remark.


Its quite clear who holds which sentiment ... and Mr. Lone is not a part of IF ... plus, I am not forcing you to believe me.

Yes, there was Hind before the Hindus ... but the Hindu is the not exactly a religion, but a sanskriti ... perhaps there are many more books on it ... and this broad topic itself deserve a seperate thread ... and its really not adequate to discuss it here, although ofcourse can be mentioned - but thats about it.

Independent Kashmir is as impossible as many thought about the impossibility of an Independent India or an Independent RSA, or an Independent Kosovo.... HOWEVER, again, we have discussed all that, and now its just the news I see and post here. YOU ARE OFCOURSE FREE to think as you like.

The claim for Independence is universally significant. However again, might not affect you - obviously.
Edited by Ice-Thinker - 15 years ago
pogo thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago

Originally posted by: pogo

@Ice


Kashmir is strategically most important for India. Once the Indian troops withdraw from there, It will be filled with terror camps in no time like many pointed out here.


A free Kashmir will sure become a terrorist hub unless the following conditions are met.

1) Imperialist forces headed by US should quit their desire for resources of other nations. They, as you know are the biggest threat to humanity than any terrorist group. I like to call them smiling terrorists. As you know their interests and tactics lead to hatred and to the monstrous growth of terrorism like we see today.

2) Rich middle eastern nations headed by Saudi Arabia should quit the idea that the world is for muslims alone and should quit sponsoring terrorist groups in poor Islamic nations.


3) Terrorists/fundamentalists need to undergo a complete mental/psychological revolution and need to realize that there is no complete faith or philosophy.

It is impossible for these conditions to be met, neither now nor in the near future. Thus Kashmir will remain with India.

Off topic: Regarding Narendra Modi, he will never be elected as Prime Minister. India is not 'Gujarat' alone. Secular Indians are a vast majority compared to fundamentalists. Do you know that in many parts of South India, Modi is not allowed entrance. In my home state Kerala, when Modi came to give a speech, I was one among the frontline protesters who prevented him from setting foot in the state.

One more thing, I think I saw in some of you posts (I think in the thread on 'nudity in films' or in the 'quotes ' thread) that you were using the terms Hind, Hindustan and all. According to law, the term 'Hindustan' is not to be used. You refer to the country as 'India' in English and 'Bharat' in Hindi.



Here is it again. You replied on the hind part. You are welcome to reply on what is left..if you wish
Edited by pogo - 15 years ago
479445 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago

Canada bars 4th Indian Service man over J&K 'record', this time a Lt-Gen.


The Canadian government's moralistic bug resurfaced on Wednesday with authorities refusing a visa to a retired lieutenant-general on the ground that the officer served in Kashmir and there were human rights violations by the Army in the Valley.

A highly decorated officer, Lt-Gen Amrik Bahia also held the post of director general of military operations (DGMO) before his retirement. He was appointed member of the Chandigarh bench of the Armed Forces Tribunal in June 2009.

It was for the second time in a week that a member of the security forces was denied a visa by Canada on such grounds. Last week, Fateh Singh Pandher, a retired BSF constable from Ludhiana, said he was denied a visa by the Canadian government for his association with what Toronto considers a "notoriously violent" force. Canada also refused to grant a visa to a senior IB officer but later relented after the Indian government protested. The Intelligence Bureau officer was assigned to travel to Toronto in connection with the Prime Minister's trip there next month.

Lt-Gen Bahia had applied at the Canadian Embassy in February for a tourist visa to attend a social function in Canada. He was scheduled to attend the function last week. However, in May, he was told by the Canadian authorities that his application had been rejected. Sources said he was denied visa on the basis of reports from some international human rights organization alleging human rights violations in J&K by armed forces personnel.

According to Lt-Gen Bahia, the rejection letter said his service as an army officer in Jammu and Kashmir was the reason for the denial. "This is an absurd ground. I have brought the issue to the notice of authorities as it is very disgusting for the members of forces," he added.

Commissioned into the Kumaon Regiment in 1967, Lt-Gen Bahia had commanded a Rashtriya Rifles (RR) and an Infantry Division in Jammu and Kashmir. He had also served in Bhutan, in addition to instructional stints at the College of Combat, Infantry School.

The denial of visas over the last two years to several officers, including three serving brigadiers, has angered the home ministry which has warned that India would also "retaliate" by denying visas to Canadian officials who go to Afghanistan via this country.

Two brigadiers were denied visas in 2008 and another in 2009. Retired Lt-General R N Bhatia was also refused a visa in 2008 on similar grounds.

Sources said these instances had been happening for a year or so and more were likely to come out. "We are expecting more cases to come to light," a source said, adding that MEA had taken up the issue with Canadian authorities. "The issuance of a visa is the prerogative of the host government. However while giving the reason for visa denial, Canada has questioned the role of security forces and security agencies in dealing with domestic security situations. This is what the government has taken strong exception to," a source said.

S S Sidhu, a retired IB officer, was denied a visa on March 26 this year, with the Canadian High Commission saying that he belonged to the "inadmissible" category of persons. The rejection letter said he could not be given a visa as he had served in an organization like IB and that led to apprehension that he could "engage in an act of espionage or subversion", or "violence that would or might endanger the lives or safety of persons in Canada."

Sidhu told news agencies it was a "disgusting reply from a friendly country like Canada and an insult to India". He said was going to see the new house of his daughter.

In view of these cases, the home ministry has written to the external affairs ministry, asking it to take up the issue strongly with the Canadian High Commission. The home ministry wants the high commission to apologize, withdraw the comments and take action against the officers responsible for such behaviour. Canada, meanwhile said it had the highest regard for Indian armed forces.

Foreign secretary Nirupama Rao on Tuesday had said that the matter had been taken up with Canadian authorities. "We take this matter very seriously. We have expressed concern and we continue to take this seriously," Rao said.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Canada-bars-Lt-Gen-over-JK-record/articleshow/5978905.cms
Edited by Ice-Thinker - 15 years ago

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