Swara Bhaskar's insensitive remarks on Jauhar scene from Padmavat- Page 16

Originally posted by: NathuPaapi

After all these long discussions if i had to sum up in one line it would be -

Practically, If I were a girl trapped in a situation that required offing myself or becoming a sex slave I'd blame that person or people causing me to be in that situation rather than blaming patriarchy or misogyny.

But then that is a hindu perspective

For the offsprings of those raped and converted...they have a different perspective formed from their own experiences ...cant blame then also for choosing to live the way they wanted to live...

Originally posted by: NathuPaapi

After all these long discussions if i had to sum up in one line it would be -

Practically, If I were a girl trapped in a situation that required offing myself or becoming a sex slave I'd blame that person or people causing me to be in that situation rather than blaming patriarchy or misogyny.

That is the difference between talking/writing about a situation or living the situation... here, we talk... in different ways... and one member in an even extremely vile way relative to me as a person (a sad excess because of anonymity)...

However, neither patriarchy nor misogyny are 'abstract concepts'... they may have formed the person /people who force you to make that atrocious choice because they grew up in the respective environment...

Originally posted by: Clochette

That is the difference between talking/writing about a situation or living the situation... here, we talk... in different ways... and one member in an even extremely vile way relative to me as a person (a sad excess because of anonymity)...

However, neither patriarchy nor misogyny are 'abstract concepts'... they may have formed the person /people who force you to make that atrocious choice because they grew up in the respective environment...

I am sorry but I thought you said I am entertaining you...

But here you are seen going around complaining about me

But anyways...

@ bold..absolutely.. that's exactly what I said in one of my previous post quoting nathu...

It ultimately boils down to the environment you grew up in for the kind of choices you make...so I absolutely don't hold it agaisnt you that you look down on hindu women jumping into the fire and similarly I look down on those who chose to surrender and live life in mughal harem ..it shows the kind of ancestry we come from who made different choices...hence the difference in opinions .

I am obviously proud of my people who gave me the reason by their sacrifices to hold my head high and say I am a proud hindu...I am not sure if I would be saying this had I come from one of those from the harem or from those who were sold in the streets ...then I would be singing along with you agaisnt hindu patriarchy in my defence like yall have been doing ...what else is the choice, right???

Originally posted by: Clochette

That is the difference between talking/writing about a situation or living the situation... here, we talk... in different ways... and one member in an even extremely vile way relative to me as a person (a sad excess because of anonymity)...

However, neither patriarchy nor misogyny are 'abstract concepts'... they may have formed the person /people who force you to make that atrocious choice because they grew up in the respective environment...

So when living the situation it's actual people responsible but when talking/writing about the situation it becomes patriarchy or misogyny which is responsible.

Thankfully i don't engage in such double standards.

Even in current times if u file case it would be against a person or people not against patriarchy or misogyny.

Be practical sometimes.

When talking of hindus, their society, culture, religion, country and internal politics this clochette passes blanket judgements....no ifs no buts...

For ex...when she says there is no functioning democracy in india or there is no free speech in India or...hindu patriarchy forced women to jump into the fire...she also insinuates and attributes all sorts of negative aspects to everything hindus and their country

But her tone suddenly changes when she is forced to say anything agaisnt islam...she becomes very guarded and defensive in her response...her essays are very standard and generalised..no judgements on islamic society , their regressive mindset or practices, nothing on the terrorism emanating from the barbaric ideology ..no condemnation of any sort whatsoever which she easily and so fluently writes agaisnt hindus even when the topic is on skme random bollywood celebrity.

See how she talks so positively about halala and mutah as spiritual philosophy, noble practices, and tools of empowerment but nothing on the suffering of women in current muslim society or how backward their thinking is wrt such practices and how it affects women in todays time....muhammad is a reformer without questioning about his decision pf marryimg a 6 ur old...great!!!.. all these n much more in contrast to how she claimed to be wanting to write so much about jauhar due to hindu patriarchy. ..

You could see how many times she excused herself out of the conversation regarding the mal practices in Islamic society....and even when she hesitantly speaks about it there is always an excuse or justification about those Islamic and ways n traditions...there is clearly emotional cord attached for the kind of respect she has for Islam and its people.

Also for someone like akbar whom che calls great especially after beimg told how he killed 30000 hindus in one go, killed another 13000 women, forced another 5000 women into his harem...

The love and defence for such barbarians barbarians can truly come from a true admirer of Islam.

I dont understand why is she ashamed to come out as who she actually is and still pretend to be white european on an anonymous forum. I dont think being a white european she gains more credibility for her anti india anti hindu stance. There are other pakistanis go all fun blazing against hindus and India routinely and they are doing just fine so what's the need to refer yourself "white" european....I get that you live in Germany hence would call yourself european...

Very silly I must say.

Originally posted by: NathuPaapi

So when living the situation it's actual people responsible but when talking/writing about the situation it becomes patriarchy or misogyny which is responsible.

Thankfully i don't engage in such double standards.

Even in current times if u file case it would be against a person or people not against patriarchy or misogyny.

Be practical sometimes.

But Nathu, what kind of interpretation of what I wrote is t h a t???

Is there a difference between talking/writing about a situation and/or living it? Yes or no?

Did I deny that the respective people/persons who put the girl in such a situation are responsible? Yes or no?

Did the upbringing (parents, society, community) shaped the behaviour of the threatening people/person? Yes or no?

If the society/parents/community live in/with a patriarchal mindset, is then this mindset responsible for the kind of upbringing? Yes or no?

Where is there the double standard??? It's a chain of influences one can talk/write about whilst the girl has to live the outcome... that is logic, not double standard...

For double standard, please read the post of this fake Beginner who calls himself a "proud Hindu" and has nothing else to do as demeaning, insulting, accusing through blatant lies, misconstruing the written content because he/she had made an image in his/her mind that suits him/her... and even gets a like for that.

During my stays in India, I've lived for weeks with Hindus of very different way of life - from the poorest to wealthy people... none of them, absolutely none ever had such a shameful behaviour.

It has no effect whatsoever if I repeat what I stated so often... there are people who strive in twisting words, single out words, disrupt the context... I just wonder, how many of the members here put me in the same box as this utterly biased member does and feel entertained. His/her posts are so full of hate towards me that I decided to be practical by not replying... so, yes, sometimes I'm practical

Originally posted by: Clochette

But Nathu, what kind of interpretation of what I wrote is t h a t???

Is there a difference between talking/writing about a situation and/or living it? Yes or no?

Did I deny that the respective people/persons who put the girl in such a situation are responsible? Yes or no?

Did the upbringing (parents, society, community) shaped the behaviour of the threatening people/person? Yes or no?

If the society/parents/community live in/with a patriarchal mindset, is then this mindset responsible for the kind of upbringing? Yes or no?

Where is there the double standard??? It's a chain of influences one can talk/write about whilst the girl has to live the outcome... that is logic, not double standard...

For double standard, please read the post of this fake Beginner who calls himself a "proud Hindu" and has nothing else to do as demeaning, insulting, accusing through blatant lies, misconstruing the written content because he/she had made an image in his/her mind that suits him/her... and even gets a like for that.

During my stays in India, I've lived for weeks with Hindus of very different way of life - from the poorest to wealthy people... none of them, absolutely none ever had such a shameful behaviour.

It has no effect whatsoever if I repeat what I stated so often... there are people who strive in twisting words, single out words, disrupt the context... I just wonder, how many of the members here put me in the same box as this utterly biased member does and feel entertained. His/her posts are so full of hate towards me that I decided to be practical by not replying... so, yes, sometimes I'm practical

Ahh so talking about me to nathu n not responding directly helps you think you are cool, ehhh???

Someone who abuses indian hospitality daily despite claiming to have nothing to do with the country is talking about shameful behaviour....

Someone who has nothing of her own to speak about roams around a completely random country's small time forums to use and abuse the plateform agaisnt that very country is talking about shame..

Like seriously your act of being cool is as fake as your claims of being a "white european...knowing how you always need a shoulder to cry on behind the closed door....must have reported me gazillion times already....its just somehow the moderators is not paying a heed this time around

I dont need you responding me as I will be saying whatever I want even without you saying anything back to me....this is a public forum BTW...you want people to read your opinions be it on any person or topic....i don t cater to you only for that PM option is always available and you have tried communicating with me where i told you to keep away from me strictly...as long as people read my opinions on an open forum I care a damn who responds and who doesnt. You are providing me the shoulder...the more you speak the more ammunition I get...your presence is enough for me

Originally posted by: Clochette

But Nathu, what kind of interpretation of what I wrote is t h a t???

Is there a difference between talking/writing about a situation and/or living it? Yes or no?

From the first person perspective or third person perspective?

If from the first person perspective if he experiences fear in a situation he will write the experience as fear. But from the third person perspective that fear may appear or be written as cowardice. Like Jauhar for the ones committing Jauhar was defiance (while living it) but for some leftists writing about it, it may be cowardice or pressure of patriarchy.

Did I deny that the respective people/persons who put the girl in such a situation are responsible? Yes or no?

After a lot of to & fro you may have accepted (although i don't remember where) but i do remember your initial blame was on patriarchy rather than the Islamic barbarians.

Did the upbringing (parents, society, community) shaped the behaviour of the threatening people/person? Yes or no?

All of that plus most importantly the religious sanction of loot, plunder and sex slavery (keeping whom the right hands possess)

If the society/parents/community live in/with a patriarchal mindset, is then this mindset responsible for the kind of upbringing? Yes or no?

It may be one factor but other factors like religious beliefs, morals, education, spiritual development, distinction between right/wrong, financial & social status and many other factors effect upbringing not just the patriarchal mindset.

Where is there the double standard??? It's a chain of influences one can talk/write about whilst the girl has to live the outcome... that is logic, not double standard...

Double standard is when u use 7th century standards for judging mohammed's misogyny but use 21st century standards for judging cause of Jauhar.

For double standard, please read the post of this fake Beginner who calls himself a "proud Hindu" and has nothing else to do as demeaning, insulting, accusing through blatant lies, misconstruing the written content because he/she had made an image in his/her mind that suits him/her... and even gets a like for that.

I have no control over his/ her thoughts or opinions or the way that person replies to you. I'm sorry but you have to deal with them yourself in whichever way you feel apt.

Why do you get so affected by that person's posts?

Now don't think I'm blaming the victim like some people blame those husbands of patriarchy, who lost their lives as well as lives of their wives & families in Jauhar.

During my stays in India, I've lived for weeks with Hindus of very different way of life - from the poorest to wealthy people... none of them, absolutely none ever had such a shameful behaviour.

Again. Why are you getting so affected?

It has no effect whatsoever if I repeat what I stated so often... there are people who strive in twisting words, single out words, disrupt the context... I just wonder, how many of the members here put me in the same box as this utterly biased member does and feel entertained. His/her posts are so full of hate towards me that I decided to be practical by not replying... so, yes, sometimes I'm practical

Good. You should try being practical more. Always living in the mind is not good... Real world is much different and you need to be practical to survive the real world.

My replies in red

Originally posted by: NathuPaapi

My replies in red

I am glad you advised her to not affected by my opinions in real sense...poor thing tries really hard to act cool but I think she is failing miserably to keep her calm...

I am sure she thought she had the power to frustrate me....

And now my leechad self also wants her to feel what actual frustration feels like...

Oh BTW she once tried communicating with me saying how all her relatives and ancestors are white only and asked me what my problem with her being a white European is and why I think she isn't white n all in private....

So she pretends to ignore me in public noe but privately she tried to convince me how much a white skinned she and her entire family is.

Like I dont think I would care much about anyone's opinion on me to clarify with that person in private when I am not in good terms with that person...PMing a random person explaining about your whiteness is a despo behaviour...isn't it?

Originally posted by: Clochette

How would I know which words of religious books are really "words of God"... Actually, it's a human's choice what it makes out of the words written in those books. God gives everybody a moral compass, but the influence on this compass starts with the birth. However, if you want a spiritual discussion, then you should make a new thread for that... here it isn't the right place, I think.

You still have not answered my simple questions.

Why are you asking me to go to another thread when you are the one writing so many essays here ? Ranbhoomi appears more and more to be spot on here.