Swara Bhaskar's insensitive remarks on Jauhar scene from Padmavat- Page 13

Originally posted by: D3VilsDex

I want to double check on this essay by you. Are you implying Quran is therefore not word of god as no god would create such laws for humanity or that allah is no God or both ?

Do you concur it has led to practices that should be number 1 priority for humanity to eliminate that you declare yourself in strong support of ?

How would I know which words of religious books are really "words of God"... Actually, it's a human's choice what it makes out of the words written in those books. God gives everybody a moral compass, but the influence on this compass starts with the birth. However, if you want a spiritual discussion, then you should make a new thread for that... here it isn't the right place, I think.

After all these long discussions if i had to sum up in one line it would be -

Practically, If I were a girl trapped in a situation that required offing myself or becoming a sex slave I'd blame that person or people causing me to be in that situation rather than blaming patriarchy or misogyny.

Originally posted by: NathuPaapi

After all these long discussions if i had to sum up in one line it would be -

Practically, If I were a girl trapped in a situation that required offing myself or becoming a sex slave I'd blame that person or people causing me to be in that situation rather than blaming patriarchy or misogyny.

That is the difference between talking/writing about a situation or living the situation... here, we talk... in different ways... and one member in an even extremely vile way relative to me as a person (a sad excess because of anonymity)...

However, neither patriarchy nor misogyny are 'abstract concepts'... they may have formed the person /people who force you to make that atrocious choice because they grew up in the respective environment...

Originally posted by: Clochette

That is the difference between talking/writing about a situation or living the situation... here, we talk... in different ways... and one member in an even extremely vile way relative to me as a person (a sad excess because of anonymity)...

However, neither patriarchy nor misogyny are 'abstract concepts'... they may have formed the person /people who force you to make that atrocious choice because they grew up in the respective environment...

So when living the situation it's actual people responsible but when talking/writing about the situation it becomes patriarchy or misogyny which is responsible.

Thankfully i don't engage in such double standards.

Even in current times if u file case it would be against a person or people not against patriarchy or misogyny.

Be practical sometimes.

Originally posted by: NathuPaapi

So when living the situation it's actual people responsible but when talking/writing about the situation it becomes patriarchy or misogyny which is responsible.

Thankfully i don't engage in such double standards.

Even in current times if u file case it would be against a person or people not against patriarchy or misogyny.

Be practical sometimes.

But Nathu, what kind of interpretation of what I wrote is t h a t???

Is there a difference between talking/writing about a situation and/or living it? Yes or no?

Did I deny that the respective people/persons who put the girl in such a situation are responsible? Yes or no?

Did the upbringing (parents, society, community) shaped the behaviour of the threatening people/person? Yes or no?

If the society/parents/community live in/with a patriarchal mindset, is then this mindset responsible for the kind of upbringing? Yes or no?

Where is there the double standard??? It's a chain of influences one can talk/write about whilst the girl has to live the outcome... that is logic, not double standard...

For double standard, please read the post of this fake Beginner who calls himself a "proud Hindu" and has nothing else to do as demeaning, insulting, accusing through blatant lies, misconstruing the written content because he/she had made an image in his/her mind that suits him/her... and even gets a like for that.

During my stays in India, I've lived for weeks with Hindus of very different way of life - from the poorest to wealthy people... none of them, absolutely none ever had such a shameful behaviour.

It has no effect whatsoever if I repeat what I stated so often... there are people who strive in twisting words, single out words, disrupt the context... I just wonder, how many of the members here put me in the same box as this utterly biased member does and feel entertained. His/her posts are so full of hate towards me that I decided to be practical by not replying... so, yes, sometimes I'm practical

Originally posted by: Clochette

But Nathu, what kind of interpretation of what I wrote is t h a t???

Is there a difference between talking/writing about a situation and/or living it? Yes or no?

From the first person perspective or third person perspective?

If from the first person perspective if he experiences fear in a situation he will write the experience as fear. But from the third person perspective that fear may appear or be written as cowardice. Like Jauhar for the ones committing Jauhar was defiance (while living it) but for some leftists writing about it, it may be cowardice or pressure of patriarchy.

Did I deny that the respective people/persons who put the girl in such a situation are responsible? Yes or no?

After a lot of to & fro you may have accepted (although i don't remember where) but i do remember your initial blame was on patriarchy rather than the Islamic barbarians.

Did the upbringing (parents, society, community) shaped the behaviour of the threatening people/person? Yes or no?

All of that plus most importantly the religious sanction of loot, plunder and sex slavery (keeping whom the right hands possess)

If the society/parents/community live in/with a patriarchal mindset, is then this mindset responsible for the kind of upbringing? Yes or no?

It may be one factor but other factors like religious beliefs, morals, education, spiritual development, distinction between right/wrong, financial & social status and many other factors effect upbringing not just the patriarchal mindset.

Where is there the double standard??? It's a chain of influences one can talk/write about whilst the girl has to live the outcome... that is logic, not double standard...

Double standard is when u use 7th century standards for judging mohammed's misogyny but use 21st century standards for judging cause of Jauhar.

For double standard, please read the post of this fake Beginner who calls himself a "proud Hindu" and has nothing else to do as demeaning, insulting, accusing through blatant lies, misconstruing the written content because he/she had made an image in his/her mind that suits him/her... and even gets a like for that.

I have no control over his/ her thoughts or opinions or the way that person replies to you. I'm sorry but you have to deal with them yourself in whichever way you feel apt.

Why do you get so affected by that person's posts?

Now don't think I'm blaming the victim like some people blame those husbands of patriarchy, who lost their lives as well as lives of their wives & families in Jauhar.

During my stays in India, I've lived for weeks with Hindus of very different way of life - from the poorest to wealthy people... none of them, absolutely none ever had such a shameful behaviour.

Again. Why are you getting so affected?

It has no effect whatsoever if I repeat what I stated so often... there are people who strive in twisting words, single out words, disrupt the context... I just wonder, how many of the members here put me in the same box as this utterly biased member does and feel entertained. His/her posts are so full of hate towards me that I decided to be practical by not replying... so, yes, sometimes I'm practical

Good. You should try being practical more. Always living in the mind is not good... Real world is much different and you need to be practical to survive the real world.

My replies in red

Originally posted by: D3VilsDex

I want to double check on this essay by you. Are you implying Quran is therefore not word of god as no god would create such laws for humanity or that allah is no God or both ?

Do you concur it has led to practices that should be number 1 priority for humanity to eliminate that you declare yourself in strong support of ?

Sorry... it seems that I only answered your first question to your satisfaction... the answer to the second actually should be clear as you very well know that - around the world - atrocious acts against humanity had been done in the name of Islam.

conclusion: How would I ever be in favour of a religion that - from the very beginning - was also using socio-political laws and isn't only a spiritual belief system. How could I not condemn the way this religion treats a huge part of his adherers.

As for your last remark in your other post: Aren't you free to believe what you want? The other new member will be happy as instigating against me obviously was the purpose of making a MID/coming back - at least looking at all the posts where I'm the main subject

Yes, it's right, I far too often tend to right long texts... so, it may very well be that - as a "Beginner" you didn't read all my texts, so I'll quote what I wrote about my opinion what Jauhar meant at the time when it was done:

Originally posted by: Clochette

... As for Jauhar, by medieval standards, it was a tragic but rational choice in the face of inevitable enslavement and wartime sexual violence. In my opinion, then, Jauhar was not seen as an act of submission or victimhood, but as a severe form of active resistance. It was a way to deny the invading army the ultimate "spoils of war" and trophies of victory. Generally, it occurred in tandem with Saka, where the men put on saffron robes and rode into a final, suicidal battle. Together, Jauhar and Saka represented a community choosing total annihilation over surrender....

Originally posted by: Ranbhoomi

When talking of hindus, their society, culture, religion, country and internal politics this clochette passes blanket judgements....no ifs no buts...

For ex...when she says there is no functioning democracy in india or there is no free speech in India or...hindu patriarchy forced women to jump into the fire...she also insinuates and attributes all sorts of negative aspects to everything hindus and their country

But her tone suddenly changes when she is forced to say anything agaisnt islam...she becomes very guarded and defensive in her response...her essays are very standard and generalised..no judgements on islamic society , their regressive mindset or practices, nothing on the terrorism emanating from the barbaric ideology ..no condemnation of any sort whatsoever which she easily and so fluently writes agaisnt hindus even when the topic is on skme random bollywood celebrity.

See how she talks so positively about halala and mutah as spiritual philosophy, noble practices, and tools of empowerment but nothing on the suffering of women in current muslim society or how backward their thinking is wrt such practices and how it affects women in todays time....muhammad is a reformer without questioning about his decision pf marryimg a 6 ur old...great!!!.. all these n much more in contrast to how she claimed to be wanting to write so much about jauhar due to hindu patriarchy. ..

You could see how many times she excused herself out of the conversation regarding the mal practices in Islamic society....and even when she hesitantly speaks about it there is always an excuse or justification about those Islamic and ways n traditions...there is clearly emotional cord attached for the kind of respect she has for Islam and its people.

Also for someone like akbar whom che calls great especially after beimg told how he killed 30000 hindus in one go, killed another 13000 women, forced another 5000 women into his harem...

The love and defence for such barbarians barbarians can truly come from a true admirer of Islam.

I dont understand why is she ashamed to come out as who she actually is and still pretend to be white european on an anonymous forum. I dont think being a white european she gains more credibility for her anti india anti hindu stance. There are other pakistanis go all fun blazing against hindus and India routinely and they are doing just fine so what's the need to refer yourself "white" european....I get that you live in Germany hence would call yourself european...

Very silly I must say.

Well written... you are a geat instigator with this post... where did you learn to twist my writings so that they fit into your narrative... and you see, you even get applause...

Am I the only one you dislike so much that you have to spin stories, creating MIDs and/or new accounts, telling what I wrote in a private message... at least, to me, it seems that you came extra for me looking at the number of posts you concocted about me. Should I feel flattered about the attention you give to me

You will find believers... you already have believers... if one tells certain things a hundred of times, there will always be people who believe the lies ...

And you see, you can do it even without any consequence so far, so others may think that there is 'truth' in your words... well, I think you may feel very happy...

Originally posted by: Ranbhoomi

... As per my research clochette was your first and original attempt and then you also tried changing humanity with your another id hereiamtoo if I am not mistaken...but somehow it didnt work so you discontinued your efforts from some of your multiple accounts...doesnt mean you haven't been trying different methods to bring about the change as per your liking...

When it comes to my person, you are mistaken in almost every way... I only comment on that remark because you aren't completely mistaken.

In the past (long ago), after having only read for a long time in the forum, I entered it first with the hereiamtoo id (which I already told once)... but then I logged out (lack of time) for a period so long that I didn't register with my first account when wanting to engage again in writing. I chose Clochette. Contrary to you, I don't need MIDs or more accounts, I'm fine with Clochette only