General Discussion thread #1 - Page 93

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

No reasons ever given. Only thing he did not do anything about it, when Draupadi said Shakuni cheated (obviously she was making up since she wasn't in spot to know whether or not he cheated), he could have taken the cue and immediately said that he too doubts that Shakuni cheated, or else said that since there are suspicions hence replay is needed, he didn't do anything, doesn't this mean he had silent support to it? Or at least that he was uninterested on whatever happens? When Vidur can say, Vikarana can support why can't he? Except for the reason that he didn't want to.

If you ask my personal opinion,(strictly my opinion post this part) he had much more power in Hastinapur that it would have been in Indraprastha, Yudhishthir kept Krishna at top the way Duryodhan and Dhritrashtra kept Bheeshm, yes Bheeshm was highly regarded by Pandavas, but say wise he wouldn't have had that importance with them. Like Krishna and Bheeshm didn't have any legal rights but most of the time their words was the final decision in the respective side (obviously not always, since many times their suggestions were ignored). If you take it in a very practical way, why shouldn't he support Duryodhan over Yudhisthir? Also Duryodhan wasn't completely wrong in his claim for the throne, BORI scholars opine that he had higher rights than Yudhisthir(thought I don't completely agree here). He was actually a great king (not like DJ in anyway). You might say he tried killing Bheem as kid, but that's what kings of past did. Asoka killed his brothers, Haranyaka's killed their father to inherit throne for generations (Ajatshatru, Uddayan, his son all killed their fathers) and these were all considered great kings, we might not like it but removing challenges to throne wasn't considered back then, just like abducting women for marriage wasn't. That was kind of a Kshatriya honor for them.

Just to think out of two grandsons (he never considered them grand nephews but grandsons) you love equally, and who are equally good governors, if you need to chose one, won't you chose the one who you know will give you more importance in his reign? Yes he felt bad when Pandavas were hurt because he loved them as his grandsons and wanted best for them, but why shall he have same feeling for Draupadi? Women were never more than status symbol for these people, and Bheeshm was the biggest misogynist in Mahabahrat (read Anushashan Parva and his views of women) And if Pandavas are fool enough to lose everything in a game of dice why shall he care? He wanted Duryodhan to return Pandavas land to them after 13 years as a good grandfather, but didn't say a word for Draupadi, goes to show who and what mattered to him.

I don't think Karna wanted to destroy them, he wouldn't have gained anything out of it, but Duryodhan in power was definitely in his favour. He was saddist kind of person who enjoyed miseries of his enemies, but Karna and Bheeshm were always loggerheads later (once he started becoming more important to Duryodhan maybe Bheeshm feared his position or maybe he actually saw what a bad influence Karna was on Duryodhan), but either ways he always kept Karna in control at least in public, if Karna was able to go ahead and make such an order to Dusshashan and is never questioned about it, clearly means Bheeshm wasn't against this act(maybe not in favour of it but not completely against it either, it was nothing more than a momentary sad feeling to him)

@bold this is a good take, I always thought in this way, but never got any reason to support this thought of mine, but Bheeshm as the mastermind aiming to destroy Kuru clan was my fantasy always, which no TV show will ever dare to show, hence I am so much rooting for an evil DB here

This is why i want evil DB too , but these people won't do it since they marketed this as a moredrn Mahabarat , if they didn't do that they could've gone for this twist....

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

No reasons ever given. Only thing he did not do anything about it, when Draupadi said Shakuni cheated (obviously she was making up since she wasn't in spot to know whether or not he cheated), he could have taken the cue and immediately said that he too doubts that Shakuni cheated, or else said that since there are suspicions hence replay is needed, he didn't do anything, doesn't this mean he had silent support to it? Or at least that he was uninterested on whatever happens? When Vidur can say, Vikarana can support why can't he? Except for the reason that he didn't want to.

If you ask my personal opinion,(strictly my opinion post this part) he had much more power in Hastinapur that it would have been in Indraprastha, Yudhishthir kept Krishna at top the way Duryodhan and Dhritrashtra kept Bheeshm, yes Bheeshm was highly regarded by Pandavas, but say wise he wouldn't have had that importance with them. Like Krishna and Bheeshm didn't have any legal rights but most of the time their words was the final decision in the respective side (obviously not always, since many times their suggestions were ignored). If you take it in a very practical way, why shouldn't he support Duryodhan over Yudhisthir? Also Duryodhan wasn't completely wrong in his claim for the throne, BORI scholars opine that he had higher rights than Yudhisthir(thought I don't completely agree here). He was actually a great king (not like DJ in anyway). You might say he tried killing Bheem as kid, but that's what kings of past did. Asoka killed his brothers, Haranyaka's killed their father to inherit throne for generations (Ajatshatru, Uddayan, his son all killed their fathers) and these were all considered great kings, we might not like it but removing challenges to throne wasn't considered bad back then, just like abducting women for marriage wasn't. That was kind of a Kshatriya honor for them.

Just to think out of two grandsons (he never considered them grand nephews but grandsons) you love equally, and who are equally good governors, if you need to chose one, won't you chose the one who you know will give you more importance in his reign? Yes he felt bad when Pandavas were hurt because he loved them as his grandsons and wanted best for them, but why shall he have same feeling for Draupadi? Women were never more than status symbol for these people, and Bheeshm was the biggest misogynist in Mahabahrat (read Anushashan Parva and his views of women) And if Pandavas are fool enough to lose everything in a game of dice why shall he care? He wanted Duryodhan to return Pandavas land to them after 13 years as a good grandfather, but didn't say a word for Draupadi, goes to show who and what mattered to him.

I don't think Karna wanted to destroy them, he wouldn't have gained anything out of it, but Duryodhan in power was definitely in his favour. He was saddist kind of person who enjoyed miseries of his enemies, but Karna and Bheeshm were always loggerheads later (once he started becoming more important to Duryodhan maybe Bheeshm feared his position or maybe he actually saw what a bad influence Karna was on Duryodhan), but either ways he always kept Karna in control at least in public, if Karna was able to go ahead and make such an order to Dusshashan and is never questioned about it, clearly means Bheeshm wasn't against this act(maybe not in favour of it but not completely against it either, it was nothing more than a momentary sad feeling to him)

@bold this is a good take, I always thought in this way, but never got any reason to support this thought of mine, but Bheeshm as the mastermind aiming to destroy Kuru clan was my fantasy always, which no TV show will ever dare to show, hence I am so much rooting for an evil DB here

I loved your opinion and the only way understand the weird righteousness of MB is political interpretation, but then Bheeshma was the heir to the throne, he had all the power to himself but he decided to not take that then why did it attract him at the end? His the hunger of power doesn’t set well with his oath.

Originally posted by: Moonks

@red so I want to know what’s his mahanta and how is he different from Karna? In a way both are sadist and self centred, they both did not care what happen to others as long as they are okay and comfortable with whatever is going on. They both have people they loved but none of them loves those people more than they love themselves or not enough to be happy for them.

I loved your opinion and the only way understand the weird righteousness of MB is political interpretation, but then Bheeshma was the heir to the throne, he had all the power to himself but he decided to not take that then why did it attract him at the end? His the hunger of power doesn’t set well with his oath.

I don't think there was any Mahaanta of him post him having left the throne for his father and his oath of celibacy. Even Vyasa doesnt try to portray him such after this incident. Post that he was pretty normal person, yet the patriarch who wanted best for his family. I would still not compare him with Karna for latter was a doom, because Bheeshm wasn't sadist unlike Karna, he didn't enjoy seeing other suffering, he just was indifferent and probably even a bit hurt at the sufferering but not to the extent that he could oppose it.

Again it was Draupadi who was being shamed not Pandavas(although Karna had asked them to undress too and they did remove the upper garment but obviously top less men aren't so much of an insult and till then they weren't being subjected to insults), he might have spoken for Pandavas but why would he for Draupadi? She wasn't related to him at all.

And if you ask about that, who actually cared for others??

Yudhisthir after all this humiliation got ready for the Second game of dice.. When Draupadi as Saindhri reached out to Virat to complain of Keechak, he asked her to go inside and "stop the act" fearing that if they take any stance they would get caught/recognized. Not even talking about his staking of Nakul Sahdev(others at least he was prompted to but these both he did by himself)

Arjun and Krishna planned to abduct Subhadra fearing that in case of Swayamvar she might select someone else. Killed lakhs of animals in Khandav Dehen so as to please Agni and get a gift from him

All of them wanted to fend for themselves..At least Bheeshm did one selfless act for his father, rest to I don't even find that...

Can be said for every other character, no one was a saint in Mahabharat not even Vyasa(pun intended) the thing was about who had more black side.

Anyhow coming back to Bheeshm

Not being the heir/on throne and being irrelevant in political affairs are two different things...

He was always the patriarch and de facto king except probably for the small durations when Chitrangad, Pandu or Duryodhan were ruling. Else during the Vichitraveer and Dhritraashtra, the kings weren't capable so he held the power, after Vichitraveer's death till Pandu came of age again he was the king regent..

And during the time of Chitrangad Pandu and Duryodhan he held immense power (though definitely not unlimited unlike other times).

Think of it Duryodhan depended a lot on Karna and yet despite Karna asking(read insisting) multiple times to Duryodhan on removing Bheeshma as CIC and taking him into the army, Duryodhan never did that and that was when Bheeshm had openly claimed that he wont kill Pandavas...(Karna had taken that oath secretly), do you think Yudhisthir or Pandavas would have let go Krishna had they to chose between Krishna and Bheeshm?

Again both Duryodhan and Yudhisthir had equal claim on throne, both were equally good as rulers (in fact I will say Duryodhan was a much better ruler, I dont think anyone who stakes a kingdom for game of dice can be called a good ruler even if otherwise he did good governance), both were his equally loved grandsons. And he had to chose one?? Really difficult decision, but why won't he prefer the side which prefers him more??

It's not just about hunger for power, but also about reciprocating the behavior....

This was only about him supporting Duryodhan in final war, about his silence in DwitSabha there is neither any excuse nor any justification. He was misogynistic and didn't take females anything more than a mere object. Sending you a snapshot from his advice to Yudhisthir during Anushashan Parva...

Thanks for tag Kusum. But sorry wont join Roohi DJ AT

Originally posted by: SoniRita

Thanks for tag Kusum. But sorry wont join Roohi DJ AT

But why? Anyway I created a game thread too but couldn't tag you and @Rainofdrew so do participate in that game thread

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/vanshaj/5335278/new-game-write-a-cringeworthy-or-an-exceptionally-bad-storyline

Originally posted by: SoniRita

Thanks for tag Kusum. But sorry wont join Roohi DJ AT

Originally posted by: Moonks

not even for me😒

😒 but I dont like the couple😒

Originally posted by: Pete15rogmourey

But why? Anyway I created a game thread too but couldn't tag you and @Rainofdrew so do participate in that game thread

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/vanshaj/5335278/new-game-write-a-cringeworthy-or-an-exceptionally-bad-storyline

I saw the thread. Will see if I come up with something😆

Originally posted by: SoniRita

😒 but I dont like the couple😒

btw how is my little munchkin now??

Originally posted by: Moonks

that’s dhoka ultra pro max😭

btw how is my little munchkin now??

He is much better now but still not eating that much like he used to before fever etc.