Your opinion about what Nawaz is saying here? - Page 7

Originally posted by: NathuPyare

Some very nice arguments here. Thank you everyone 👍

There's something else that I've noticed and although it's not specifically related to the matter in discussion here but this affects me a lot.

I sense an air of superiority about being well versed in English in some people as if knowing English makes u superior from the rest of non-english proficient people. I seem to notice a lack of pride of being well versed in your mother tongue, especially if its Hindi. South Indians are still more proud of their mother tongue despite knowing English well.

If a person can talk or write well in English he's automatically deemed intellectually superior even if he may be as dumb as Alia, Ananaya, kareena or sonam who are well versed in English and proudly state that they don't know Hindi much.

Also using pure Hindi or Sanskrit words is often ridiculed in movies or series and that ridicule is copied in real life by people who get inspiration from tv and films. I sense there's a lack in pride about knowing their mother tongue well in Hindi speaking people. On the contrary, knowing good English is a matter of pride. I don't see such behaviour in some other countries who are proud of their own language despite knowing English ex. France Germany etc.

I see that on IF too. People who can't converse or write good english are looked down upon here.

I think the coffee show of KJo is evident enough where he can often be seen openly mocking others for their "poor" English and speaking English with an "accent" that's different from the usual.

So, yeah, in the context of bollywood and their "elite" circles, speaking English is aligned with their social status and class and those who speak in Hindi are considered "downmarket" like Chandni Chowk in Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham.

I haven't visited India in my life to know or speak on the ground level, but movies/shows gave me that impression.

Not sure if you've watched Fabulous Lives of Bollywood Wives on Netflix but Shanaya's brother, who's born and brought up in Mumbai I'm assuming, apparently cannot follow the rest of his Hindi speaking family members or answer back in Hindi cuz he's a 14/15 year old who attends an English speaking boarding school.

You'd think that English is his second language, right? I obviously think that's strange and full of BS. Claiming to "not" know Hindi even though it's most probably his first language and even though he lives in India where it's widely spoken... and even though the rest of his family were speaking in Hindi = a massive steaming pile of BS.

But what's up with the "observation" at the end? You can't really dictate who gets along with who here on the forum or who they relate to and how.... now can you? No one owes anything to anyone here.

Originally posted by: aparnauma

Ramcharan and NTR junior both are star kids and they both attended some very elite private schools. Ramcharan from the way he sounds it's obvious that he thinks in English. NTR jr is equally comfortable with English and Telugu. But another fact is that they both are very fluent in Tamil because they grew up in Chennai when Telugu films were being made there.

Chennai is a cosmopolitan city then too.

The reason why Tapsee and Tamanna are still around doing projects in multiple languages and the other starlets flitting in and fading out is obvious.

Sridevi was exceptional. There'll never be anyone like her.

The point here is the respect given/not given to the language in which they are working and not about the knowledge or understanding of the language.

If Telugu Malayalam Kannada people could learn to communicate in Tamil why this star kids find it difficult to communicate in Hindi? When it is the language spoken by their grand parents and parents? It's not like they grew up some where in Non Hindi speaking region of the world.

The reason is simple. They want to sound hip and trendy. But what they don't realise is behind all that faux outlandish accents it is quite easy to make out their knowledge about the language.

See, now you're making it about star kids not knowing Hindi.

I agree with you they should.

But that still doesn't mean they're obligated to communicate in Hindi when not performing.

Star kids are not even Nawaz's complaint, anyway.

He is blanket complaining of communication happening in English. When there are non Hindi natives on set.

At the end of the day that seems to be what support of what Nawaz said seems to boil down to. Star kids treat English as hip and Hindi as not so hip. Well, they're uneducated, born mostly to equally uneducated parents who believe their money makes them classy. What do you expect?

But why use that to blanket demand everyone on a Bollywood set speak Hindi when there are many more who are more comfortable in English? I mean Nawaz himself says most on set speaks English, so I assume they know the language.

Originally posted by: SmittenKitten

I think the coffee show of KJo is evident enough where he can often be seen openly mocking others for their "poor" English and speaking English with an "accent" that's different from the usual.

So, yeah, in the context of bollywood and their "elite" circles, speaking English is aligned with their social status and class and those who speak in Hindi are considered "downmarket" like Chandni Chowk in Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham.

I haven't visited India in my life to know or speak on the ground level, but movies/shows gave me that impression.

Not sure if you've watched Fabulous Lives of Bollywood Wives on Netflix but Shanaya's brother, who's born and brought up in Mumbai I'm assuming, apparently cannot follow the rest of his Hindi speaking family members or answer back in Hindi cuz he's a 14/15 year old who attends an English speaking boarding school.

You'd think that English is his second language, right? I obviously think that's strange and full of BS. Claiming to "not" know Hindi even though it's most probably his first language and even though he lives in India where it's widely spoken... and even though the rest of his family were speaking in Hindi = a massive steaming pile of BS.

But what's up with the "observation" at the end? You can't really dictate who gets along with who here on the forum or who they relate to and how.... now can you? No one owes anything to anyone here.

No i haven't seen that fabulous life show but i agree with what u wrote.

As for the observation at end, not getting along with people doesn't warrant mocking one's writing skills or non-proficiency in writing posts in English and calling those posts gibberish or non understandable because they were in Hinglish.

I don't like it even if it's not happening with me...

Originally posted by: guftagoo

Bollywood" IS Hindi film industry, it is not even up for debate and is nothing wrong in calling Hindi films as Hindi films. A lot of them have been trying to stop the usage of word 'Bollywood' given how outdated the term is. Infact, the Telugu Film Industry has successfully managed to call itself TFI and moved over from the outdated term 'Tollywood'. And off late, these guys are insisting to call it Indian film industry and refer to actors as Indian film actors.

Also no, "Bollywood" doesnt have majority of Non Indian actors. It is filled with Indians only. And there is nothing extreme in what he is saying because since many years, people who are most comfortable in Hindi are looked down upon in many professions, while English became the tool to build self-confidence. And forget Hindi, I'd instead say that more attempts should be made by people to learn the language of the land where they are working, be it Marathi, Bengali, Hindi , Tamil, Telugu depending on the state, if not fluently then atleast the basics of it. All these things might take time but efforts should be made in that direction only. A Telugu person should not feel compelled to speak in English when he works in a Telugu film set

Of course Bollywood is a Hindi film industry but why does Bollywood have to take it upon itself to rechristen itself, a name that carries so much history and has such a long legacy by now? Just to appease the non-Hindi segments who are peeved by the fact that Bollywood gets the kind of recognition regional cinema doesn't? That sounds like an attempt to diminish its impact or limit it to just "Hindi" speaking masses so that the other industries can be on a level playing field or something. It's a very diabolical thing to suggest in my opinion. Bahubali received the kind of mass acknowledgment none of the Bollywood films ever have and got its dues, did it not? Quality and content win at the end.

If people can relate to something, they will automatically gravitate towards it, there's no need to rechristen the name to assuage the jealous, lesser known industries, which btw, are thriving in their own ways too. Best to just work towards increasing their own outreach instead of trying to "fix" Bollywood.

Does Hollywood spell it out for us and tell us that it's "English Film Industry" ?? No, right. What's the need to spell it out? That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in a while.

^^ Because it is a poor copy of the word Hollywood. As you said, Hindi films have an extremely rich legacy, even before the usage of the word "Bollywood" became popular. Also no, it is the not the non-Hindi speaking people who want to call it Hindi cinema, you got it all wrong. It is the Hindi speaking people or viewers itself who gradually want to move over from the term "Bollywood". If this is the most ridiculous thing you have heard in recent times, then you haven't heard enough things really, because this one is actually one of the more logical progressions.

P.S. Also I am least interested in what Hollywood does or preaches. That is the last place to take inspiration from. 😆

Originally posted by: NathuPyare

No i haven't seen that fabulous life show but i agree with what u wrote.

As for the observation at end, not getting along with people doesn't warrant mocking one's writing skills or non-proficiency in writing posts in English and calling those posts gibberish or non understandable because they were in Hinglish.

I don't like it even if it's not happening with me...

Well .... people from all walks of life post here. If someone is typing a bunch of words that are neither coherent nor properly strung together, and they quote you, what are you supposed to say to them?

People post in a public forum with the intention to "interact" with others where the mode of communication is predominately English, so what are they expecting from people who don't know them personally?

I happen to think that they are inviting criticism and ridicule on to themselves when they choose to post here. You can't type "ami coolie anti element druggie bully wood wood" every single post in every single thread and expect people to acknowledge you as someone with something thoughtful to say! Is that the expectation here?

I'm assuming they're here to sound off others here? If they're only here to dump one liners that don't make sense here and there, they should probably specify it in their disclaimer that they are only to be read and not touched, I'm sure people would be more than happy to skip. But they give off the impression that they're here to interact ..... so, telling them how they sound is a part of the bargain. Mocking is not cool but we're all human and something that blatantly ridiculous sounding will get called out by someone or other eventually.

It has nothing to do with looking down on Hindi speakers in my opinion. If someone speaks to me in Hindi, I can answer them without mocking them if they make sense. But no one is obligated to humor people who can neither think nor type coherently, neither in Hindi nor in English.

That sounds really extreme though and I highly doubt it happens that often. Most of the people are self-aware even when they can't type.

Disclaimer: The story, all names, characters, and incidents portrayed in this post are fictitious. No identification with actual persons (living or deceased), places, buildings, and products is intended or should be inferred. ☢️

Originally posted by: SmittenKitten

Well .... people from all walks of life post here. If someone is typing a bunch of words that are neither coherent nor properly strung together, and they quote you, what are you supposed to say to them?

People post in a public forum with the intention to "interact" with others where the mode of communication is predominately English, so what are they expecting from people who don't know them personally?

I happen to think that they are inviting criticism and ridicule on to themselves when they choose to post here. You can't type "ami coolie anti element druggie bully wood wood" every single post in every single thread and expect people to acknowledge you as someone with something thoughtful to say! Is that the expectation here?

I'm assuming they're here to sound off others here? If they're only here to dump one liners that don't make sense here and there, they should probably specify it in their disclaimer that they are only to be read and not touched, I'm sure people would be more than happy to skip. But they give off the impression that they're here to interact ..... so, telling them how they sound is a part of the bargain. Mocking is not cool but we're all human and something that blatantly ridiculous sounding will get called out by someone or other eventually.

It has nothing to do with looking down on Hindi speakers in my opinion. If someone speaks to me in Hindi, I can answer them without mocking them if they make sense. But no one is obligated to humor people who can neither think nor type coherently, neither in Hindi nor in English.

That sounds really extreme though and I highly doubt it happens that often. Most of the people are self-aware even when they can't type.

Disclaimer: The story, all names, characters, and incidents portrayed in this post are fictitious. No identification with actual persons (living or deceased), places, buildings, and products is intended or should be inferred. ☢️

Baap re 😱

Anyways i wasn't talking about the ones who cannot write coherently but the ones who write in Hinglish and are coherent in their thoughts but are still mocked because of their Hinglish or less strong hold on English.

But even with the ones who cannot write coherently, there's a thing between accepting and mocking. It's called ignoring or respectfully asking for clarification.

Originally posted by: guftagoo

^^ Because it is a poor copy of the word Hollywood. As you said, Hindi films have an extremely rich legacy, even before the usage of the word "Bollywood" became popular. Also no, it is the not the non-Hindi speaking people who want to call it Hindi cinema, you got it all wrong. It is the Hindi speaking people or viewers itself who gradually want to move over from the term "Bollywood". If this is the most ridiculous thing you have heard in recent times, then you haven't heard enough things really, because this one is actually one of the more logical progressions.

P.S. Also I am least interested in what Hollywood does or preaches. That is the last place to take inspiration from. 😆

I never said that Hollywood is the place to take inspiration from. I was giving you an example, to tell you that an industry doesn't need to spell out the language in its heading for people, especially if it's been around for ages and is doing spectacularly well with it. But your resentment towards Hollywood is certainly noticeable -- I'll be sure to use a different example next time, perhaps something within India won't grate on your nerves.

To me, there's nothing logical about messing with something that ain't broke. It sounds like the internal politics of Hindi vs Telugu vs Tamil clouds some people's judgments and make them suggest inane things.

Originally posted by: NathuPyare

Baap re 😱

Anyways i wasn't talking about the ones who cannot write coherently but the ones who write in Hinglish and are coherent in their thoughts but are still mocked because of their Hinglish or less strong hold on English.

But even with the ones who cannot write coherently, there's a thing between accepting and mocking. It's called ignoring or respectfully asking for clarification.

Aren't you here to lagao aag 🔥? I was just fanning that fire a little. 😉

People/NRI's get mocked all the time here for being ABCD's, clueless, and some even go far enough to say that our opinions don't count. Putting people down happens both ways and its a problem you, my friend, won't be able to resolve on india-forums. It's a systemic problem, def. not something that started here and neither will it be addressed well or end here.

It may seem extreme for people in some parts of India.. but those living in India who "choose" to not learn Hindi but do speak English should seriously reconsider their life choices!