The parable of the wind and the sun - Page 2

Originally posted by: Salutethearmy

The parable of the wind and sun is a biblical ref?

It's actually a fable, I think maybe from Aesop Fables? (you're right, parables are teachings of Jesus...my bad😆)

Human beings have primitive reflexes, sixth sense, reasoning, understanding and ability to think out of the box. Abhimanyu's character sketch goes up and down as per the writers whims and fancies.

Here Garima briefs Saba as to what they want out of the track and she develops Abhi accordingly.

Exactly, Abhimanyu is all over the place because the writers are dragging him wherever their fancy takes them - bechara IDHAR UDHAR Abhi🤣

All the characteristics which I am looking for is in Neil Birla.

WOW yes you're right! Neil is pure love ❤️

Harshvardhan, Manjiri and Abhimanyu are frustrated human beings. Abhi behaves exactly like dad...Harsh snaps at wife and jija Or doc doing the same. Abhi has become a psychology subject these days.

Spot on - his behavior is like Sir and his thinking is like MAA (short temper AND short sightedness - ekdum lethal combination🤣)

I hope Saba concentrates on Pyar Kiya toh Darna kya. I want to watch Akshara opening up. Rather both need to sit and talk face to face without biting each other's head. This show is anything but perfect.

Pls check our Bade Ache Laghte Hain2

I will thanks! I see it's available on Hulu.

I like deranged and extreme characters, not somewhere hanging in between.

Zain is coming with Fana. Interested?

I don't know who they are? I'm not all that broadly familiar with Indian tv or movies (grew up in the US). I started watching Indian shows about 6 years ago after my grandparents passed away to keep my colloquial Hindi fluent and also out of nostalgia as I used to watch shows with my Daadi as a child. I've watched maybe 9 or 10 shows entirely (or almost entirely) and am always checking out a few episodes of random shows here and there. I like HC, Viraf Patel, Ashish Sharma, Rohit Purohit, Jennifer Winget, Sanaya Irani and Rasika Duggal so I look out for their shows 😊

(my answers in bold)
You know so much about HC and Indian TV! I like reading your posts a lot.

Originally posted by: Prettywitty

Ultimately there's really no point in analysis or interpretations with all the loopholes and inconsistencies - it's like trying to write in sand at the seashore. The storyline and Abhimanyu's character are all over the place for the sake of TRPs and/or because of whatever nasheela padarth whichever writer is taking on any particular day😆

Abhimanyu's behavior is horrifying to me (and ok, yes also triggering because I've been at the receiving end of unwanted male attention that went from sweet to toxic to downright scary). The world is full of men like him who think their bad behavior is justified because they are in love and the object of their love is not behaving how they want. It's tough watching them portrayed as heroes and adarsh premi, and their behavior defended as acceptable or correct to move the story along. To me, it seems like a terrible message to send in a show that a lot of young impressionable women are watching. Mere koh toh bahut tension aati hai yeh sab dekh ke

Main toh jaa rahi thi (anyway my classes are killing me right now) lekin I got sucked right back in because of you lovely funny ladies and your mazedaar posts🤗

Mere ko ab MOVE ON karne ka lag raha hai. I don't want to get all bitter and toxic like JIJAJI y'know🤣

Anyone watching Dhadkan Zindagi Ki? Mujhe koi aur show recommend karo jisme accha romance hai but not so much toxicity - if it exists😆

Is HC's old show "Tere Liye" any good? I tried Kis Des and Saubhagyavati and no, just no (plus HC has gotten SO MUCH better looking with age)...

Tere Liye is a sweet story of friends turned lovers. The music adds so much depth to Anurag and Taani's journey. It's a good show, and doesn't have sad undertones like Kis Des & Saubhagyavati.

Originally posted by: Prettywitty

Yehi toh na - yeh kaisa admi hai for whom someone has to be at death's door before he comes to his senses! Doesnt he have the good sense and the TAMEEZ to treat the woman he loves with consideration and respect instead of constantly focusing on himself and his pain and his needs without even trying to understand hers? (rhetorical question😆)

Yaar JiJaJi in a box will not pass US customs - toxic products are not allowed into the country🤣

Focusing on himself, his needs and his pain is the right thing to do, as long as he avoids manhandling anyone.

At least Abhimanyu is true to his feelings and emotions, and doesn't pretend from everyone. Much better than Akshara who makes everyone's life miserable in the guise of thinking about others before herself. She keeps lying constantly to her own self, and damages other people (her dear sister included) in the name of tyaag and maturity. Being immature and focusing on our own self is much better as long as it doesn't harm other people.

Respect aur consideration se hi he was asking her to say the truth all along (except the manhandling instance) but the reality is she's always going to lie, which is what we've been seeing throughout.

Originally posted by: HahaHeheHuhu9

Focusing on himself, his needs and his pain is the right thing to do, as long as he avoids manhandling anyone.

At least Abhimanyu is true to his feelings and emotions, and doesn't pretend from everyone. Much better than Akshara who makes everyone's life miserable in the guise of thinking about others before herself. She keeps lying constantly to her own self, and damages other people (her dear sister included) in the name of tyaag and maturity. Being immature and focusing on our own self is much better as long as it doesn't harm other people.

Respect aur consideration se hi he was asking her to say the truth all along (except the manhandling instance) but the reality is she's always going to lie, which is what we've been seeing throughout.

But he's not avoiding manhandling her, is he?

Most of the world's pain is inflicted by people who are immature and focused on their own needs - such people lack of empathy.

I have said all along Akshara set this entire situation in motion for very unnecessary reasons but in real life if the choice was to deal with someone like Akshara whose negative actions are passive and someone like Abhimanyu whose negative actions are externalized, I will take the former. I've known men like Abhimanyu (in action, not looks unfortunately) and they are bloody scary to be around.

Originally posted by: HahaHeheHuhu9

Tere Liye is a sweet story of friends turned lovers. The music adds so much depth to Anurag and Taani's journey. It's a good show, and doesn't have sad undertones like Kis Des & Saubhagyavati.

Thank you - you have given me my alternative source for an HC fix 🤗

Originally posted by: Prettywitty

But he's not avoiding manhandling her, is he?

Most of the world's pain is inflicted by people who are immature and focused on their own needs - such people lack of empathy.

I have said all along Akshara set this entire situation in motion for very unnecessary reasons but in real life if the choice was to deal with someone like Akshara whose negative actions are passive and someone like Abhimanyu whose negative actions are externalized, I will take the former. I've known men like Abhimanyu (in action, not looks unfortunately) and they are bloody scary to be around.

Arey I agree that his manhandling and behaviour now is surely not what anyone would want in real life. Once she told him that she wants to give up, he should respectfully leave her and not pursue her anymore. If we think of a real life situation like this, it does come across as scary and obsessive. But they're showing Abhi to be possessive which is not at all a good idea 😔

But at the same time, I can't stand Akshara's mahaanta as well. It's so sugary sweet after a point and unbearable to see her self-righteous attitude 😕

And I do think focusing on one's own self is necessary. Otherwise, the world just takes the person for granted. I'm not saying this from the perspective of the show here, but in regards to real life situations.

In the name of empathy for others, if one has to bottle up their feelings and trash their own emotions, then they're not respecting themselves. Putting ourselves first is fine as long as it doesn't cause intentional harm to others.

Maybe it's a difference of opinion on how each person views life 🤗😳

UGH, broken gif links fail... ignore

EDIT: I'm restoring the original post despite the nonworking gif links because of HaHaHeheHuhu9 kind words about it - even though I wrote the post to argue with her❤️

I totally agree about Akshara but again if he's true to himself, his behavior should not depend on how others behave.

I also agree one shouldn't bottle one's own emotions and become a doormat, but empathy just means understanding where the other person is coming from and being as kind as possible under the circumstances. After her rejection in Birla house, Abhimanyu had the right idea initially - keep his distance, be coldly polite. Then Raita mata had her bhayanak bimaari and he agreed to marry anyone his family picked (kitna unrealistic!) and his unimaginative parents whose entire world is apparently restricted to Birla Hospital and Birla house suggested Arohi🤔

From here is when Abhimanyu really lost all his TAMEEZ.

What he did: He taunted Akshara as though SHE was the one who forced him to marry her sister and tortured her with his besuraa singing...

Let's be honest - Akshara had no fault or hand in his being forced into marriage or being forced to marry Arohi. That was all his family's doing and HE agreed to it.

What he should've done: Not informed her, shown up like a BOSS at the Goenka's house and played it cool while watching Akshara's jaw drop

https://tenor.com/view/tom-hardy-boss-like-a-boss-legend-reggiecray-gif-9348710

What he did: He started being actively rude and graceless to Akshara (mithai waala scene) when he could've just politely ignored her (the thing is he jumps between the two - first he ignores her, then he gets in her face, on a repeat loop)

What he should've done:

https://tenor.com/view/im-so-cool-be-cool-swag-gif-13842435

What he did:

He grabbed and cornered Akshara to forbid her from taking a great job she was offered (and probably was unqualified for...). He cannot control his anger or his emotions (this is not consistent with a man who is shown to be disciplined, who is into meditation and Shiv Bhakti etc.)

What he should've done:

Instead of ordering her, he could've tried asking her NICELY to consider not taking the job

https://tenor.com/view/pretty-please-jason-franklin-the-oval-can-you-please-im-begging-you-gif-21001845

What he did:

He spoke to her insultingly in her workplace in front of others (and left a patient on the OT table to do it...)

What he should've done:

https://tenor.com/view/dean-winchester-supernatural-let-it-go-dean-let-it-go-elsa-gif-20732975

What he did:

He manhandled her in his office and LIED to Arohi about their interaction, saying they were just talking. He leered at her again by the car and said vaguely threatening things in a creepy tone (this is not the Abhimanyu who prides himself on seedhi baat and treating women chivalrously)

What he should've done:

https://tenor.com/view/dude-back-off-woah-dont-touch-me-back-off-go-away-gif-14879498

What he did:

Then came the engagement and we had the mawaali-ish blaring music on a speaker, gheraoing her and forcibly chadaoing her on the bike incident. Ekdum gaali ke gunde ki tarah...

What he should've done:

https://tenor.com/view/the-big-lebowski-just-take-it-easy-man-the-dude-gif-23362266

Phir thodi time ke liye isko ignore kiya and took away her right to call him Abhi - this was fine with me.

And then we're back to the taunting, creepy smiles and cruel words waala Abhimanyu - except now he's ALSO acting insincerely affectionate with Arohi (how is he being true to himself here by this dishonesty?)

What he should do

https://tenor.com/view/mad-angry-suck-it-up-shut-the-hell-up-gif-14434790

And also

https://tenor.com/view/play-it-cool-smoking-cool-be-cool-bad-boy-gif-11933366

He would've kept his dignity, protected himself and it would've totally jalao'ed Akshara. She hates being ignored by him! It would've given him all the control of the situation back. OR he could've tried being kind and compassionate and understanding. Both ok options and consistent with his character.

But no, he's actively going out of his way to hurt her (he said as much with his "you'll share my pain" speech, this is toxic shit). This is crazy, unhinged behavior - mere ko toh yeh daravna admi lagta hai

https://tenor.com/view/sweet-but-psycho-playing-with-knives-i-will-find-you-ex-boyfriend-gif-14708570

Accha, you have seen more HC shows than I have - out of curiosity, how do you rank Abhimanyu among the characters he's played?

Originally posted by: HahaHeheHuhu9

Arey I agree that his manhandling and behaviour now is surely not what anyone would want in real life. Once she told him that she wants to give up, he should respectfully leave her and not pursue her anymore. If we think of a real life situation like this, it does come across as scary and obsessive. But they're showing Abhi to be possessive which is not at all a good idea 😔

But at the same time, I can't stand Akshara's mahaanta as well. It's so sugary sweet after a point and unbearable to see her self-righteous attitude 😕

And I do think focusing on one's own self is necessary. Otherwise, the world just takes the person for granted. I'm not saying this from the perspective of the show here, but in regards to real life situations.

In the name of empathy for others, if one has to bottle up their feelings and trash their own emotions, then they're not respecting themselves. Putting ourselves first is fine as long as it doesn't cause intentional harm to others.

Maybe it's a difference of opinion on how each person views life 🤗😳

Bahut mehnat se ek post likha tha but saare gif links toot gaye - Abhimanyu ke dil ki tarah💔

See I think fundamentally we don't disagree. AksharaSue is a boring Indian tv trope and I just ignore her (although I'm liking Pranali more and more) but her character has remained consistent. That's my main requirement from TV characters.

I also agree with you (bold). Akshara does that all the time, right? She's such a doormat I'm surprised she doesn't have shoe marks on her face. But Abhimanyu is not.

My issue is with how Abhimanyu is being developed and there's so much inconsistency in his portrayal that he's no longer a functional character. He was presented to us as a rich, tall, dark, handsome ubercompetent surgeon who is level-headed, sorted and secure in himself despite a dysfunctional family. He has developed a habit of meditation and prayer to center and calm himself. He prides himself on his straight talk, his ability to resolve problems, his dignified and honorable behavior (TAMEEZ), his protectiveness towards women from getting hurt or insulted because after all he himself has a sister and loves his MAA, his professionalism and ability to separate personal from workplace behavior. We have been told these are his values, his essential character traits. This is not a man who should have trouble controlling his anger or his emotions. This is the man Akshara fell in love with (heck who wouldn't??).

He would absolutely prioritize his well-being but he would not squander his dignity and core values like he's been doing. The original Abhimanyu would treat Akshara like he treats Arohi now - coldly polite but distant maybe even speak to her bluntly. I can see him tell her she can no longer call him Abhi.
And the way to move the story forward would be to have him do this consistently - it would completely jalao Akshara because we've seen she hates being ignored by him. What he would never do is pretend to be suddenly warm towards Arohi just to make Akshara jealous because that is not honest or chivalrous. And he would never deliberately try to cause Akshara pain - he said even an Ow from made him stop breathing! I wanted to see how that original Abhimanyu would evolve after falling in love but they turned him into a pile of anger and impulse which is completely contrary to his personality.

Now we could say he's come undone in love but if this is how much he's changed, he's no longer the man Akshara fell for. We have not even seen him feel guilty about how he's behaving towards Akshara.

Remember what Abhimanyu told Kairav when they first met - he said he also had a sister and would never behave inappropriately with any woman. I've said this before in another post but how do you think Abhimanyu would react to a man who was treating Nishtha the way he's treating Akshara? Aise aadmi ki toh woh bahut zor se pitai karega, na?

People might think I'm bashing Abhimanyu but I'm not - I'm just fed up with the bad writing that is idealizing toxic masculinity as romantic love and, on top of it, wasting our HC's talent.

Originally posted by: Prettywitty

UGH, broken gif links fail... ignore

I read your post and yes there are so many character inconsistencies they're showing with Abhimanyu.

Just that the gifs didn't show up, but I agree with all those instances where you pointed out what he did versus what he should have done instead.

Ignoring Akshara and being coldly polite with her would have worked better. Or even an arranged marriage set up would have worked wonders for Abhira's love story.

I feel writers are over confident that they'll get TRP come what may. And are just showing whatever they fancy without putting in the thought and creativity needed to bring depth to the story and meaning to the plot.

Why did you edit it out? It was a very well-written analysis!

As for HC's characters and how Abhimanyu ranks among them, I would definitely say that character-wise, Abhimanyu is not among the top 3. Like Abhi is flawed which is fine, but they're romanticizing the flaws which is the problem. The office dance and bike grabbing are two things I wish weren't shown.

These acts are being romanticized by showing parallely that Abhi is the Prince charming. This does send out a wrong message. That's the issue. I watch this show for HC but am old enough to know that "love" like this is dangerous but teenage girls may believe this is how fairy tale romance is (which it is not).

Fairy tale is what was shown on Tere Liye where he played Anurag, and to some extent Dharampatni where he played Mohan. Kis Desh and Saubhagyavati were great too, and his chemistry with the female leads in these 2 shows was crazy popular and the love story was adored so much.

Anurag-Taani's evergreen love story is remembered even today on Twitter in huge numbers. Anurag was always caring and compassionate towards Taani even when he thought she loved someone else. His love was unconditional and ITV created such idealistic and enviable characters those days.

Raghav was a feminist in Saubhagyavati who didn't think he needed to protect Siya from domestic violence. Rather he empowered her and motivated her to fight for herself. He truly believed in equality and in her ability to fight for herself.

Prem in Kis Desh was the epitome of perfection in everything, and the true Prince Charming. He was like the Ram of ITV in that show. Morally righteous, self-sacrificing character, but it wasn't irritating because Ekta Maata had such solid grounds for Prem to suffer 😆😆 He was the personification of "Prem" towards everyone, and not just towards Heer It was entertaining to follow their love story 😆 But kudrat, kainat and kismat always played foil for Prem and Heer, creating major troubles in their lives 😆

But Saubhagyavati and Kis Desh can get depressing at times with all the trials and tribulations faced by the lovers 🥺

Acting wise, HC is doing a wonderful job here and he's getting to portray a lot of emotions, dance, wear good clothes (which he wasn't given in Bepannaah), and do a prime time show on Star Plus with good TRPs. That way, it's great seeing him back and the way he plays Abhi makes me rationalize Abhi's character and he makes it believable once I decide I'll watch the episode for entertainment. 😆

Yrkkh makers are capable of doing a good job. Season 1 with Akshara and Naitik was written beautifully for the initial 3 years in all the bits and pieces I have seen.

HC has also played highly flawed characters before. Sahir from Humsafars was a very dark shade of grey character-wise, and the character did some morally questionable things. But that wasn't white washed and Sahir was presented as being this crazy hero 😆

Mohan was grey too, but his struggles were real issues dealing with generation gap and difference of opinion on life with his controlling grandfather. It was relatable. His love story with Kastur was sweet. She was dewani over him and very devoted to patidev despite his don't-care attitude 🤣

Aditya in Bepannaah was also seriously flawed but he was a man-child and the circumstances and plot allowed him to act crazy. Here the foundation behind why Abhimanyu is doing certain things is weak. That's the issue.

In summary, I am hoping Abhi's character gets written well going forward. Prem and Anurag were author-backed roles and were the true protaginists. Hoping Abhi reaches there!

Originally posted by: Prettywitty

Bahut mehnat se ek post likha tha but saare gif links toot gaye - Abhimanyu ke dil ki tarah💔

See I think fundamentally we don't disagree. AksharaSue is a boring Indian tv trope and I just ignore her (although I'm liking Pranali more and more) but her character has remained consistent. That's my main requirement from TV characters.

I also agree with you (bold). Akshara does that all the time, right? She's such a doormat I'm surprised she doesn't have shoe marks on her face. But Abhimanyu is not.

My issue is with how Abhimanyu is being developed and there's so much inconsistency in his portrayal that he's no longer a functional character. He was presented to us as a rich, tall, dark, handsome ubercompetent surgeon who is level-headed, sorted and secure in himself despite a dysfunctional family. He has developed a habit of meditation and prayer to center and calm himself. He prides himself on his straight talk, his ability to resolve problems, his dignified and honorable behavior (TAMEEZ), his protectiveness towards women from getting hurt or insulted because after all he himself has a sister and loves his MAA, his professionalism and ability to separate personal from workplace behavior. We have been told these are his values, his essential character traits. This is not a man who should have trouble controlling his anger or his emotions. This is the man Akshara fell in love with (heck who wouldn't??).

He would absolutely prioritize his well-being but he would not squander his dignity and core values like he's been doing. The original Abhimanyu would treat Akshara like he treats Arohi now - coldly polite but distant maybe even speak to her bluntly. I can see him tell her she can no longer call him Abhi.
And the way to move the story forward would be to have him do this consistently - it would completely jalao Akshara because we've seen she hates being ignored by him. What he would never do is pretend to be suddenly warm towards Arohi just to make Akshara jealous because that is not honest or chivalrous. And he would never deliberately try to cause Akshara pain - he said even an Ow from made him stop breathing! I wanted to see how that original Abhimanyu would evolve after falling in love but they turned him into a pile of anger and impulse which is completely contrary to his personality.

Now we could say he's come undone in love but if this is how much he's changed, he's no longer the man Akshara fell for. We have not even seen him feel guilty about how he's behaving towards Akshara.

Remember what Abhimanyu told Kairav when they first met - he said he also had a sister and would never behave inappropriately with any woman. I've said this before in another post but how do you think Abhimanyu would react to a man who was treating Nishtha the way he's treating Akshara? Aise aadmi ki toh woh bahut zor se pitai karega, na?

People might think I'm bashing Abhimanyu but I'm not - I'm just fed up with the bad writing that is idealizing toxic masculinity as romantic love and, on top of it, wasting our HC's talent.

Mehanat Khali nahi gaya, I read the post with the what he did and what he should have done points 🤗😳