Originally posted by: joliefemme
OMG this forum people and their disclaimers.. why cant people accept a contrary opinion without viewing it as offensive. UFF
LOL
You wrote so much in your coffee break girl
it was a large cup of coffee 🤣
I will try and respond to each of your thoughts. It doesn't matter if they are organized or not. This is not a college assignment or a work deliverable.
It's part of my IRL job to be as clear as possible in documents so disorganized writing triggers my OCD LOL.
Thanks, totally agree. I love Pakistani shows as well and have been very vocal in pointing out I would have loved MHRW as much even if they didn't show any explicit romantic scenes. What makes them different is their journey to love and the chemistry is an added bonus which I can accept without any complains.
Yup. P dramas tend to focus more on dialogue than anything else. You dissect so much from what the characters say and how they say it that you don't need physicality in scenes.
While you made relevant points (which made me REALLY think) and we may have to eventually agree to disagree - If you see our post we are not talking about the shirtless scenes when he is at home. What put us off was that he was shirtless in the D house (again it can be argued that he was inside the room) but what point I am trying to make here is whether this adds to the scene or is just a gimmick used by makers to appease the fandom. Again, pointing out that I watch Pakistani shows and you will rarely see such scenes but that doesn't dilute the impact of the scenes. His gym scene, his sleeping on bed shirtless is never an issue. I have never raised this point before because it made sense to me but the towel scene could have been a bathrobe coz he can come out of the bathroom in a robe and then gets the idea comes running down. Again one can argue the other side but you do get what I am trying to say. Out of context and repeated scenes bring down the beauty of it - I don't want to see a shirtless Raghav everyday.
I brought up his scenes at home - because in d house - that room is his temporary home. So it's kind of the same situation. When Sulo came in, he started to put on his shirt.
Sure, we don't need to see that. He didn't need to be shirtless for Sulo to even ogle him. She ogled him with clothes on too 🤣. I get what you're trying to say. But the whole purpose of this was a comedy scene, in a bigger way than when she first saw him, so to up the ante they made him shirtless in this scene as well. So technically it did add to the scene.
I don't think either of us have said anything about his unbuttoned shirts. That is his style and his comfort and so it is totally ok if he is comfortable showing that much skin. Similarly, I have no issues with Pallavi's deep neck blouse or see through sarees as long as she is comfortable.
I brought up the unbuttoned shirts topic probably bc of another comment. lol. But my whole point is, the opinion that they're objectifying him seems to based on the assumption that he's not comfortable being shirtless.
And that's where I disagree. IMO, the Raghav I've seen, seems fully comfortable being shirtless. Just like he's comfortable wearing a half buttoned shirt in his place of business. Just as he's comfortable wearing a lungi that bares his legs (wedding redo pics). We can't call out people (makers) for objectifying someone if that someone doesn't feel bad about it. There are people who are 100% comfortable in their body to bare as much as they do.
If him being shirtless, half dressed, etc., makes us uncomfortable, then that's on us. It doesn't necessarily mean he's being objectified. And until SKR comes out and says "Im uncomfortable with shirtless scenes" or "I actually don't like taking off my shirt", we can't just assume he is. (I bring up SKR because when we talk about Raghav being objectified, we're really talking about SKR being objectified.)
Again., as long as Amruta is comfortable in her clothes I don't think her clothes are something we should be pointing at.
Besides what Amruta wears is her comfort zone, the idea is not to flaunt. But with Raghav, it doesn't come across that way. This exhibitionism is when things goes OTT. Like while he was swimming, it fit the bill. Even then, the first thing he did was wear a robe the minute he stepped out. That seemed natural. We are not even pointing it when he is in bed and sleeping shirtless is his comfort zone. But beyond that, every single time and anywhere where the flaunt doesn't fit the script but is just a flashy glamour picture is where the problem start to arise.
We have never talked about his shirt buttons and don't think they can be classified as being objectified. And even when he tied up his lungi, it was very casual. When has the focus even been on his legs? (thank God for that, though!)
See, in MHN, they both were more age appropriate. He was more kind of smitten by her. He liked her and she did approve of her advances so it didn't strike me as inappropriate - if she didn't approve of his advances, it would have been called stalking which would be called out by me.
But, what's wrong with an older woman liking a younger man? They're both well over the age of consent/legal. The first time SRK saw Sush he was smitten - ok. But he didn't know her, he went purely off looks at that time. Can Sulo also not be smitten just on looks?
No she didn't but if he was walking around shirtless, doesn't give her the right to ogle him like she did.
Why do you think only if she touches him it is inappropriate? Keeping a bad eye on a person that makes the other person uncomfortable is also not right. If you remember the look, Mandar gave to Pallavi during Satyanarayan pooja during his confrontation with Raghav, when he said Pallavi ko main hi rakh leta hoon was so cheap while eating the sheera. So looks can make a person's skin crawl. Doesn't matter for a male or a female.
I never said only if she touches him do I consider it inappropriate. Yes, unwanted looks from someone can make a person's skin crawl if that person is worried/scared/disliking it. At most Raghav was weirded out by it, but he didn't feel the way Pallavi felt when Mandar would stare at her. These scenes had completely different tones.
Honestly, both Saishi didn't appeal to me or Soni when we first saw them and I have also mentioned this on the AT and not just saying this to justify my thoughts. I think what makes them attractive to us is their overall personality and not just how good looking they are (maybe this is just us?? We are wired differently). They make you fall in love with them for who they are. I don't think I view actors from the perspective of their body and hence this doesn't sit with me (same goes for Sonia).
Attraction is personal so I'm not going to comment on you or Soni specifically. But I think, in general, a lot of people do care about physical attraction. I pointed it out because I just don't think commenting about how we find someone physically attractive is wrong. Sulo did not actively hit on Raghav, nor did she tell him out right "Oh you're hot. I love that your shirtless" etc etc. Is the distinction that I'm trying to make clear?
If I saw someone hot at a restaurant, and I wanted his number, etc., of course I'd tell my friends (or to myself) "Damn, he's hot" but would I say that to his face? Not necessarily. Sulo didn't really say anything to Raghav directly. IDK maybe this is a cultural thing? (though I'm not sure where you guys are from).
Again, I don't think the clothes matter but being shirtless surely increases the possibility. Objectifying any person is wrong irrespective of how much clothing one has on but when he is shirtless, it will happen more than when is fully clothed (trying not to victim blame here - it is basically the mindset of the one ogling).
See, there is a difference between appreciating someone's beauty like - hey, this person is good looking vs ogling at someone who is shirtless - eyeing them top to bottom and saying this man is a HOT- TEA. Again, there are 2 aspects to objectifying - one how the person (R in this case) feels and the intent of the one ogling
Hot tea comment was for comedy - again - she didn't outrightly hit on him or do anything more than what anyone in general (check someone out up and down) does when they see someone attractive.
I think there's a fine line between being gross and not. And I think that line is just dependent upon your own comfort, morals, and background. To me, at most she just checked him out.
IMO it seems like it grosses everyone out just bc its Sulo. If Maansi did what she did, would everyone have the same objection? Idk, food for thought I guess.
Yes, we can let the moral implications go. Even if she was unmarried with no daughters, it would be uncalled for.
I agree it is one of the better shows out there and hence we do tend to hawa main filter a lot of things but at times it is important to discuss some topics which merit a discussion.
Brownfacing is an issue for sure but here in this context I think it was to keep his disguise, I don't think it was possible to make him fair and hence I let this slide - any other instance I would have clearly pointed it out.
I did not see any backlash about his brownfacing on this forum. If anything this is one of the many times it was done that it wasn't needed at all. His face is 75% covered, who's noticing his skin color?
They did rectify it eventually so I am fine with it (you cant change what is telecasted and viewed)
I completely disagree with this point as we don't go around making criticizing posts for every episode. We let slide a lot of things because this show overall is good and worthy of all the praise. But at the same time, it is important to raise issues because they bring about a change. Isn't it surprising that brownfacing and LGBTQ offensive content was not acceptable to you, similarly, the points we made were not acceptable to us. We are all different and have different perspectives. I do not agree that it is a TV show, move on, forget it or use the remote. Of course we have the discretion to do all that but if we can bring a change, then why not.
Right, we do all have different perspectives, and if you think it's objectifying - that's obviously fine, you're entitled to your opinion, of course. But IMO this differs a little bit from the brownfacing & LGBTQ offenses. Brownfacing/LGBTQ jokes are always going to be wrong.
I just think there's more grey area with the idea of objectifying someone. Are we basing our idea of objectifying on the fact that we're uncomfortable with it, or because they're uncomfortable with it?
You know I didn't want to bring this point as it may not go well with people who read but after seeing this post and the comments we received here, I realized one thing that people here are so afraid to point out things because it may "offend" someone - just see the disclaimers we got on this thread. Why will I judge someone who gives their opinions. We are here to debate, discuss and learn from each other's point of view. Another thing, I have been stalking the main forum for 3 odd months and rarely found a post where I feel like commenting. It is like people are no longer interested in having any serious conversations. All the posts I see are either BTS or ATs or overly critiquing posts (read P bashing but that is just my opinion)- no posts on symbolism, very few posts on appreciation and analysis of the episodes.
People use disclaimers bc although it's yours and Soni's thread but it's an open forum - people are going to comment on what they want. And disclaimers kind of hold off on the more aggressive commenters.
Specifically, hypers**uality of the entertainment business is so deeply ingrained into it and our societies that unfortunately, I don't foresee it ever really changing.
That being said, I have really loved the 50th AT so much because I crave to read analysis of the episodes because it gives you so much insight.
SEE this is what I was talking about. Why post a disclaimer if you are giving your opinions. The ones who are offended will be offended despite the disclaimer and ones who aren't don't care about it.
my reply in red
Probably this was a wrong post to bring this all up but it has all happened in flow. I won't apologize because I trust you are smart enough to realize I mean no offense to you in particular.
word. it's cool.