Episode Spoiler - 12 July 2021 - Page 19

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

I'm not disagreeing, I just find this an interesting topic to discuss. Strength of the connection is one thing, but I guess I'm more taken by your second point.. He values his relationships above notions of right or wrong, and Kirti is the most precarious relationship he has right now. I somehow can't imagine him rocking the boat on that under any circumstances.

And this is why Amma's guidance is helpful. He will take a lot of comfort from his mother steering him towards helping Pallavi the way he would probably have wanted to do if thinking about Keerti's future hadn't made him change tactics. Amma's word will hopefully help him get rid of some of his anxieties regarding the aftermath.

Originally posted by: Wilddreams

Raghav needs to make her understand that. If he will put effort from his side to make her realize she will learn for sure.

If she feels she is not worthy in his life it's Raghav's fault and Raghav needs to assure her that she is equally important to him.

If Pallavi felt invaluable in his life its Raghav's failure as a husband and life partner because he failed to coney that to her

Lol, this is something I've been saying about Ayi for a long time. I truly believe she loves Pallavi, but the fact that Pallavi shares nothing with her is an indication that she's not been made to feel secure there. I agree, same applies here- it's Raghav's job to make Pallavi secure in the relationship, just as much as it's Pallavi's to make him secure. If either of them is insecure, the onus is on the other to give them that sense of security. But I guess it'll only happen with time.

Originally posted by: Wilddreams

Raghav needs to make her understand that. If he will put effort from his side to make her realize she will learn for sure.

If she feels she is not worthy in his life it's Raghav's fault and Raghav needs to assure her that she is equally important to him.

If Pallavi felt invaluable in his life its Raghav's failure as a husband and life partner because he failed to coney that to her

I give up.

My earlier post was in response to your question as to why it was Pallavi's job. I have been writing about what's hurting Pallavi (not feeling her importance in Raghav's life) and how the best way to close the loop is her finally getting to understand exactly what she means to him. That doesn't mean that Raghav can go scott-free or that she has to go on demanding answers. He knows how she's feeling but is not focusing on addressing her emotions in this matter. I don't know if he will or not, depends on the upcoming track.

I am not saying it is Pallavi's responsibility to get explicit answers and I'm not denying Raghav has to go beyond main har cheez nahin bolta.

He wanted to send her to Kolhapur, she refused and decided to stay back. But these two haven't even talked about their relationship itself, as in where do they want to take this as a couple and have just been going with the flow - not something that will work long-term. They are on completely different pages and until they take time to figure this out together, these kinds of things are going to keep happening.

I frankly wouldn't mind seeing Pallavi question herself as to whether she fell too fast too hard for him and whether her decision to choose to stay with him would be right for the long-term. It's not just about her importance in his life. Raghav's life is very messed up, with all the baggage he and the other Raos carry. Does Pallavi want to be entangled in that all her life at the expense of her happiness, and knowing that there's a chance she may or may not receive what she's been hoping for in this relationship?

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

Lol, this is something I've been saying about Ayi for a long time. I truly believe she loves Pallavi, but the fact that Pallavi shares nothing with her is an indication that she's not been made to feel secure there. I agree, same applies here- it's Raghav's job to make Pallavi secure in the relationship, just as much as it's Pallavi's to make him secure. If either of them is insecure, the onus is on the other to give them that sense of security. But I guess it'll only happen with time.

Relationships are two ways street. Both parties need to work on it equally.

But assuming Pallavi will Learn by herself is She will learn only if you convey your message about her worth to her clearly.

In my opinion it's Raghav's turn to make her feel that he value her presence in his life as much as Amma and kirti if not more ❤️

Originally posted by: Ubiquitos

A point well made, but not emphasized enough. The problem is not with RR's character or how he behaves...He loves Pallavi offcourse it will come out one day.. How one behaves in that love, and how Pallavi reacts to how he is the question...He will do anything to protect his sister, and he was clear about it. In fact I am glad his skewed sense of right and wrong, his family prioritization, his slightly manipulative methods as well as his conflicts came back.

But problem is the depiction of how Pallavi reacts to it.. What are her conflicts? Will she still choose to explicitly trust Raghav and show faith in him if similar situations arise in future? His family loving trait is what she admires in him, but what if she herself is sidelined in the process? What if his methods of protecting his family including herself aren't exactly right? What if he lies to her for a well intentioned purpose again? Is she okay with this? She can be okay with this all after all she chose him and loves him.. But this needs to be addressed, and shouldn't be swiped under the carpet is what I am asking... And I am so glad they did it today...but hope more such talks in future as well...They need to have such talks/confrontations more... Romantic scenes without context and without any continuation or any vibe of overall mood of the happenings around don't work....

Agree completely. She may have fallen for him and chosen him, but can she accept him 100% with all the baggage and mess it's going to bring into her life too? I used to ask, is she really going to be ok with being a don's wife? Well we're seeing the conflicts now. Only she can figure that out. I always worried that she was in for a rude shock with the way she had her rose-tinted glasses on, and I guess those are finally coming off. Let her see things the way they are and then re-assess her own priorities in life, hopefully in a direction that gives her happiness and mental peace. I would go so far as to say if Raghav isn't the best person for her long-term, she shouldn't stay with him. At the end of the day, I just want her to do right by herself and not worry too much about other people because she needs to be selfish when it come to things like this. It's all nice to have romance to please the audience but these kinds of emotional struggles are important to address so that the relationship develops (or breaks) in the right way.

Originally posted by: Wilddreams

Relationships are two ways street. Both parties need to work on it equally.

But assuming Pallavi will Learn by herself is She will learn only if you convey your message about her worth to her clearly.

In my opinion it's Raghav's turn to make her feel that he value her presence in his life as much as Amma and kirti if not more ❤️

I agree with you, any relationship should be equal. I've been saying this about Raghav's 'main har cheez nahi bolta' since he said it, that that can't be a carte blanche for him to be uncommunicative, putting the onus on Pallavi to read between all the lines all the time. He may be overflowing with affection, respect and care for her, but that means nothing unless she can feel it, in words or in actions.

But that's the life he's lived, and it'll take time for him to grow out of it. I desperately want Pallavi to take a step back now, because she dove headfirst into this relationship, and it's time for her to pull back and be selfish and consider whether this is what's best for her.

But, not my place to interpret Jean's words, but I don't think she was saying it's Pallavi's responsibility to actively learn what Raghav feels for her, but rather that the show needs to take a direction which allows her to find out what the audience already knows about the depth of his feelings. I do agree with that.

(Jean, sincere apologies if I misrepresented you here)

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

Jean ❤️

Such a great breakdown of the episode! I've been frequenting these daily threads less and less these past few days, and I've really missed breaking these episodes down with you.

I agree with a lot of what you've written here.

On Raghav, I will be upfront in saying I don't condone his approach, at all. That said, I do understand it completely, and it is what I expected, so I'm not surprised. I may not be able to justify him, I understand perfectly. I've been pretty vocal about Pallavi getting unwarranted hatred in the past, today I feel the level of flak Raghav has been getting is as uncalled for. Unfortunately, what's happening is Raghav is suffering the fall out of Kirti's (frankly, despicable) behavior, which isn't fair to him because we know how Kirti is acting, but Raghav doesn't. What's happened is that audience tide has turned against Kirti, hugely, and since Raghav has her back, he's facing the fallout as well. It's a little unfortunate to see a fandom so polarized right now, but it's also expected, I guess, in a track like this.

I wanted to reserve judgment on Kirti as well- as you know, I've adored the girl from day 1, so I'm not able to go all out in hating her, but her behaviour has been quite upsetting. At this point, the best case scenario is that she was just a passenger in the car, and not behind the wheel- she's still complicit though. I can understand panicking and running away in the moment, especially if she and/or Sunny were under the influence, but they did leave him to die. The least she could have done is called for an ambulance anonymously. And if the precap is anything to go by, she's even taunting the wife of the man she killed about how she's going to get away with it. I agree that there's a lot more to the story right now- why does Amma believe she was in Guntur (it's a 6 hour drive from Hyderabad, so I doubt she could have just slipped away- CVs messed up, or something more)? Can she drive or not? How does Sunny figure into all this? How does Ved? But that said, it's hard for me to sympathise with her right now- any sympathy I feel is carrying over from the immense goodwill she earned with me in the past. I am dreading a conclusion to this which boils down to 'it was all Sunny's fault, evil Sunny', and I'm afraid that's where it's heading.

On Pallavi, she's the one I'm unable to find at fault in this situation TBH. Probably the only thing I've found annoying was both her and Farhad nicely telling Kirti where the confession was, and that she kept the pen with her and not with Farhad. That was dumb. I'm also dreading whatever gun pointing tamasha she's about to cause at the police station, but I'll contain my annoyance till it actually plays out. Her husband was killed, and the man she's now married to is actively blocking her from seeking justice, so I don't blame her for bulldozing. She's being far more empathetic that I would expect someone in that situation would be, and I've been rooting for some selfishness from her for a while, so I can't not cheer her on when she's finally doing it. Yes, I do wish she'd handled it a bit more elegantly with Jaya, but I'm willing to forgive that because of what she's dealing with right now from the bhai-behen. Though she doesn't speak much, the helplessness and desperation for justice is quite palpable.

On RaghVi- I actually didn't Raghav him bringing up the abortion thing, because I don't find the situations comparable wrt Pallavi taking the blame onto herself then and Raghav doing it now. Firstly, while I absolutely know it was neither your intent nor Raghav's, comparing abortion to a crime makes me uncomfortable. And second, well, Pallavi didn't jump up to take the blame onto herself, it was pinned on her and she did make attempt after attempt to disprove the allegation, which she did do with her family in the privacy of her bedroom. Considering Mansi's marriage, an innocent in the situation, was on the line, I think what she took issue with was Raghav's approach of the very public spectacle. She was primarily shielding an innocent Mansi, and not Amrutha, and even if it was Amrutha, she was covering her from social stigma, and not the well-deserved, legal and moral, consequences of a crime. That said, I was not on Pallavi's side when she was behaving that way- Raghav's name had been dragged publicly, and he had every right to clear it publicly as well. Similarly, I can't support Raghav now, no matter how much my heart hurts for the impossibly hard situation he's in.

"If Keerti goes to jail, Raghav will be mentally and emotionally finished, as will Amma from the looks of things. What family can he offer her then?"

I agree completely with what you've written here. But if Pallavi has to let go, and pretend to be happy family with the person responsible for Mandaar's death, her pain, her family's struggles, she will be emotionally finished too, and then what marriage will she be offering?

I'm so very glad we got a one-on-one between RaghVi today, I may sound like a broken record now, but their communication issues will be their downfall, and today at least felt like a step in the right direction. We've spoken before about wanting to know about Pallavi's experience of being widowed in such a traumatic situation. I was annoyed when they played a song over Pallavi sharing the last time, and I'm glad we got a glimpse of it today. Every word she said pierced my heart, and I'm pretty sure it pierced Raghav's too, but his response came across as rather insensitive to me. It was basically, "I get you, and I know you're in a terrible situation, but too bad, this is what it's gonna be, find a way to make peace with it." As audience members, we get a lot more insight into Raghav than Pallavi does, and while we do understand how strongly he feels for Pallavi, she doesn't. And after today, I won't blame her if she shuts down further and is less inclined to share- she's not really being made to feel heard, and opening up has been a challenge for her anyway.

Same with his insistence that if she needs to see punishment being served, he's happy to serve himself up on a silver platter. Again, from his perspective, I don't think there could be a bigger indication of how much he values her. The fact that he's putting himself on the line, it's proof that she features in the short list of people he values above his own self along with Jaya, Kirti and Farhad. Else he has enough and more resources to close this entire thing off without anyone being punished, and she won't be able to do a thing about it. But if I look at it from her perspective, it feels emotionally manipulative. He knows she'd never let him take the fall for such a big crime when he's not at fault, so by constantly putting himself on the line, there's a sense of 'drop this or else..' Frankly, this plan of his has seemed quite stupid ever since she found out he was trying to frame himself as the culprit, and isn't the culprit himself.

I know this is long already, but I'll make a last point- I don't think she's feeling betrayed, really, but rather disappointed and hurt. You're right, I doubt she realized he'd go this far, but all of us watching did. I'm glad in some sense that this is happening, as heart-wrenching as it is to watch. I always felt she was falling too hard, too fast, especially considering none of the lines he's crossed before their wedding were ever really addressed- the truck incident comes to mind. I was hoping she'd have some reservations, but I guess it was in character for her to go all in. I am hoping this will make her pull back a little.

Like you, I understand where Raghav is coming from but clearly it's morally not the right thing to do. He's aware of it, however, so that's good enough for me as that's what his character should be like. If he'd been totally denying that his path is the wrong one, then I would've had a major issue. Even if people are unhappy with Keerti and he's facing the brunt of it, well... c'est la vie. He will have tough times in his life and may not always be able to do the right thing. I don't expect it from him because of the way his character's been established from day 1. Sure, it's easy to expect that of other ITV ML's who claim to be good and always stick to the right path, but this character is very different so I see him with a different lens. There are many things he's done that are wrong and will continue to be wrong. I may not always agree with them but will accept that those are due to his flaws as a character.

Yep, Pallavi's stance in this matter is correct in terms of the morally right approach as well as in terms of what I would expect from her character. She's not deviating from the Pallavi that we've seen since day one so if she'd tried to be a mahaan bahu by dropping the case for her in-laws or looking the other way, that's when I would have had an issue. Glad they didn't write it that way. I'm also happy that she's talking about how she feels, because why shouldn't she? It's gradual growth in her character that she also cares about her own closure and how she's struggling with her emotions. She has the right to demand openness and honesty from Raghav as his life partner. Whether or not he does so is a different matter, but her ask is not out of line at all. I know that Amma has understood her predicament, which is why she didn't take it to heart that Pallavi didn't consult with her first. I find Pallavi being overwhelmed by her emotions completely normal.

You're right, my intent was never to compare the abortion with the hit and run. My point was that I was happy he brought it up because it showed her how he was comparing the two situations in terms of their strong drive to protect their families, something they share in common. The main point of conflict here isn't their willingness to sacrifice for their families but in terms of the enormity of issue here and that you literally can't just let people get away with murder. She wanted him to put aside his emotions and stand with the truth the way she was, but she's disappointed that he stuck to his goal of protecting Keerti. I didn't expect any different, and frankly if Raghav hadn't chosen to protect Keerti, it would have seemed out of character to me. Again, I don't agree with his reasoning but I know why he's thinking this way. It hurts me to see him being unable to do right by her and also himself. If he can't support her actively he could at least stop blocking her attempts, and this is why I'm so happy to hear Amma's guidance. Sometimes hearing it from another person, especially the one you love most in the world, can make a huge difference.

I don't think Raghav expects Pallavi to let go and I don't think she should drop the matter either. He knows she won't and understands why, which is how he concluded, rightly or wrongly, that offering himself up was the least he could do.

Yes, she fell too hard too fast and we'd both discussed this a few times. She's been living in the present and in a bit of a la la land so she was bound to come crashing down hard. It was much needed for her to see the big picture and think about the long-term of this relationship and what she wants out of it, so I'm glad that process has started for her. As I've asked many times on this forum, she chose to be his wife and live with him, but can she accept him 100% with all his flaws too? Can she really be a don's wife with all the madness it will bring?

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

I agree with you, any relationship should be equal. I've been saying this about Raghav's 'main har cheez nahi bolta' since he said it, that that can't be a carte blanche for him to be uncommunicative, putting the onus on Pallavi to read between all the lines all the time. He may be overflowing with affection, respect and care for her, but that means nothing unless she can feel it, in words or in actions.

But that's the life he's lived, and it'll take time for him to grow out of it. I desperately want Pallavi to take a step back now, because she dove headfirst into this relationship, and it's time for her to pull back and be selfish and consider whether this is what's best for her.

But, not my place to interpret Jean's words, but I don't think she was saying it's Pallavi's responsibility to actively learn what Raghav feels for her, but rather that the show needs to take a direction which allows her to find out what the audience already knows about the depth of his feelings. I do agree with that.

(Jean, sincere apologies if I misrepresented you here)

Thanks, dear. I agree with everything you've said. This was exactly my point but clearly my communication skills are lacking at this point because I've been unable to express myself well enough. 😔

And your interpretation of my words is spot on. They need to find a way to let her see what we see about him. All those drunken talks and tears of his have been in Pallavi's absence or when she's been asleep, she never saw any of it.

I keep saying that we as the audience see the 360 that the characters don't and this is worth keeping in mind when we see them lacking or failing to act appropriately in various situations.

Was he not the one who was overly expressive in his attempts to stop her at the train station? Yes, so it means he knows how to do it when he wants to and hopefully he will apply the same in their relationship, just as I hope she continues to express her emotions and expectations openly too. They both have to communicate, otherwise it's not going to work long-term.

Originally posted by: PSharada

I feel Raghav has not yet gotten closure for the tragedy that killed his father and brother. Hence he is doing everything to save his one and only sibling - it is not defined by the boundary of right and wrong which is what he told Pallavi too.

Regarding Pallavi - she is important to Raghav but she is fighting for past of a dead person - sure it gives closure to everyone but he is gone and can't come back no matter what you do. Raghav is not asking Pallavi to stop her stuff - he is just saying if you are this insistent on punishing someone then I am ready to take the fall to protect my sister's future. It is about perspective.

Truth is never absolute - truth goes by your definitions of justice and acceptance. Raghav and Pallavi have higher moral conscience than Keerti. Hence both are willing to save their family at all costs.

I am reminded of a very old Japanese picture Rashomon directed by legendary Akira kurosowa which he uses a situation(rape/seduction) of a married woman and how the story differs when it is narrated by different people - the victim, by-stander, husband and thief.

I am pretty impressed by the episode for this exact same reason - each character has their perceptions of justice and everyone acted accordingly

Trust me when I say this, that this time I understand Raghav's position more than I ever have.. Even if he had gotten the closure wrt his past, though Im not sure how he can ever hope to get that.. Some damages are irreversible and there's nothing much one can do about it.. Nana and Arjun are not gonna come back and he has to live with the pain of their loss forvever.. Point is anyone in his position would've probably have the same intentions, even if the approach was different Its not a theft or forgery charge, its a murder charge which can ruin Keerthi's life and as a brother especially one who just got back his family, its extremely hard to do what Pallavi is expecting of him. I feel equally bad for Pallavi.Its a very unfortunate situation they are in right now. Makes me wonder if things could've been different, had Raghav not tried to hide things from her the beginning, and had tried to explain things logically.. explain to her that it is extremely unfortunate but what has happened has happened..punishing Keerthi is not going to get Mandhar back..Keerthi on her part could've sincerely apologised..maybe Pallavi would've considered..she has surprised us in the past and eventhough its a very different matter.. there was still a chance that she would've weighed her options and tried to figure out a middle way along with all concerning parties. But none of that happened.. Instead he lied to her, misled her, tried to put every road block in her way..Keerthi humiliated her and continues to do which is why as an audience I feel somewhat disappointed with Raghav eventhough I understand his position..

Originally posted by: PSharada

I feel Raghav has not yet gotten closure for the tragedy that killed his father and brother. Hence he is doing everything to save his one and only sibling - it is not defined by the boundary of right and wrong which is what he told Pallavi too.

Regarding Pallavi - she is important to Raghav but she is fighting for past of a dead person - sure it gives closure to everyone but he is gone and can't come back no matter what you do. Raghav is not asking Pallavi to stop her stuff - he is just saying if you are this insistent on punishing someone then I am ready to take the fall to protect my sister's future. It is about perspective.

Truth is never absolute - truth goes by your definitions of justice and acceptance. Raghav and Pallavi have higher moral conscience than Keerti. Hence both are willing to save their family at all costs.

I am reminded of a very old Japanese picture Rashomon directed by legendary Akira kurosowa which he uses a situation(rape/seduction) of a married woman and how the story differs when it is narrated by different people - the victim, by-stander, husband and thief.

I am pretty impressed by the episode for this exact same reason - each character has their perceptions of justice and everyone acted accordingly

Totally agree with this. I am also really impressed with the way the conflict has been set up and presented because you find it hard to pick one side absolutely over others. It's not black and white and I think that's what will be explored further in the jail conversation, i.e. what's the other side of the story?