꧁༺ | ꧁•⊹Ishita⊹•꧂ AT # 1 - Page 12

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

Since we were discussing about krishna karna conversation. One thing i would like to say that the only people who actually cared about drapaudi were krishna and drishtdyum. Nobody else. Krishna twice promises panchali of punishing the chandal chaukdi. He even indirectly blackmails dritrashtra and rest through Sanjaya because of his actions inactions in dice hall. He literally confesses that he carries the pain of not being there for panchali when she needed him the most. Nobody brings up panchali the number of times he does in the battlefield. In comparison to this his words to karna was nothing but manipulation. Krishna was playing him. And i think he played well because karna ends up giving away promise to kunti. Kunti played well too.

And drishtdyum was a great brother to panchali. His entire life revolved around panchali and her children. This is one bond i would like someday somebody to explore Brother sister bond.

@Bold I don't think Krishna Karna convo had much to do with that promise to Kunti.

Kunti promise was nothing more than his overconfidence.

Karna had a strange fascination to his Danveer image just as Yudhishtir had for the Dharmaraj image. He promised to Kunti just to maintain that image.

I don't think he would have even imagined that none among Drona, Ashwathama, Shalya, Jaidrath or Duryodhan himself would not be able to kill any of the other four Pandavas. He took the promise as a safe excuse thinking that while the others will kill the Four Pandavas, He would be there for Arjun. Even if not, he might have thought to arrest the others if need be. Unfortunately his calculation went miserably wrong.

He definitely didn't have any feelings for the Pandavas else he might have felt at least some remorse in being a part of deceitful killing of Abhimanyu

Reposting it since it got lost in all the discussion and i really want to know everyone's POV on this

Nonetheless moving on .Why is this AT so dead? Let me start another discussion

So i caught up yesterday with all the episodes. So now all the blame of Drau marrying five Pandavas goes to Kunti. So again blame Kunti for the lust / love or the decision Pandavs made. I guess its easier to blame a woman for the sins of men. I know its a popular theory but none either KMG or Critical edition says that. Both show Kunti was genuinely unaware and was genuinely miserable at what she said and asks Yudi for an advice.

Infact to Yudi's credit he does say that Arjuna should marry her in accordance with all the rituals.

Its Arjuna who says no and says either all of us will marry her or you alone. But since Yudi know that all Pandavas are lusting after Drau or are in love with her however one wants to put it hence Yudi in order to keep his brother's together says all 5 will marry her.

So if any blame should got it should go to Pandvas alone and not to the women neither Kunti nor Drau as they were either innocent or silent spectator.

Nonethelss whait i wanted to ask you guys is that what do you make of Drau's silence in the epic regarding this? She is also shown to be happy by the end of the day. None of other version of the epic have Drau saying anything or complaining. Is it because story is being told to Arjuna's great grandson and hence they cant have Drau complaining even if she did? or was Drau genuinely ok? Of course no one can say what really happened thousands of years ago. But Drau is quiet curt to Yudi and rightfully so at many times in the epic she isn't silent then so her silence here may mean that she was genuinely happy or ok with the mmarriage hence didn't complain. What do you guys think?

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Hmm how is your tom cruise statement related to this. Are you tom cruise's best friend? his companion and adviser? some one supporting him and his family in war ? Come on yaar its very different. Is your relationship to Tom cruise same as Krishna and Drau. I don't even understand this example.

You may look at this as a random statement and overlook it and be ok that Krishna said it . Its fine. That is your POV.

I don't . Whether it was random statement or not. For me i can neither overlook it or be ok with it. I will leave it at that.

The statement is relevant because just as I have no right to offer Tom Cruise, Krishna had no right to offer Draupadi. .

I don't look at it as random statement, it was a Random statement since it was made by someone who has no right to make it

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

I like bhim more than any other pandava no doubt about that. He and panchali made a great team But for all his promises he does end up accepting that his brother dearest had right over them to bet. Could have kept quite. He didn't. Arjuna actually looks better there because he question yudhishtra s right over them. Though over all all the pandavas were someway guilty of whatever happened in dice hall.

The point is Pandavas had other priorities. But krishna and drishtdyum actually does love panchali a lot. These two were most affected by the fact of failing panchali someway. And over everything panchali always had their immense support no matter what. They actually understood the kind if human being that she was Unlike her husband dearest.

I firmly believe none of the pandavas deserved her.

I will add Sahdev to this list though.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

@Bold I don't think Krishna Karna convo had much to do with that promise to Kunti.

Kunti promise was nothing more than his overconfidence.

Karna had a strange fascination to his Danveer image just as Yudhishtir had for the Dharmaraj image. He promised to Kunti just to maintain that image.

I don't think he would have even imagined that none among Drona, Ashwathama, Shalya, Jaidrath or Duryodhan himself would not be able to kill any of the other four Pandavas. He took the promise as a safe excuse thinking that while the others will kill the Four Pandavas, He would be there for Arjun. Even if not, he might have thought to arrest the others if need be. Unfortunately his calculation went miserably wrong.

He definitely didn't have any feelings for the Pandavas else he might have felt at least some remorse in being a part of deceitful killing of Abhimanyu

Yes he was overconfident. I can see him "sparing the lives" of yudi sahadev and nakul but bhim seriously ?? Wasn't he the same man who defeated anga during the imperial campaign and several times defeated karna in war too.

I guess he was trying to play both the parties. Krishna just used his nature against him.

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

I like bhim more than any other pandava no doubt about that. He and panchali made a great team But for all his promises he does end up accepting that his brother dearest had right over them to bet. Could have kept quite. He didn't. Arjuna actually looks better there because he question yudhishtra s right over them. Though over all all the pandavas were someway guilty of whatever happened in dice hall.

The point is Pandavas had other priorities. But krishna and drishtdyum actually does love panchali a lot. These two were most affected by the fact of failing panchali someway. And over everything panchali always had their immense support no matter what. They actually understood the kind if human being that she was Unlike her husband dearest.

I firmly believe none of the pandavas deserved her.

After he kills Kichaka and Upakichaka for her he tells her he she doesn't need thank him as it was his duty and he was just returning a debt to her.😭

Kirshna and Dhrishtdyumna are only words

Bhima is words + actions. I don't think when it comes to caring for Drau any one can be compared to Bhima. But to each their own i guess.

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Bold- For that one thing you are ignoring everything else he did for Drau. Just one thing he said . Though yes it was wrong but there are so many other examples of what he did and said to her that shows how deeply he cared for her

After he kills Kichaka and Upakichaka for her he tells her he she doesn't need thank him as it was his duty and he was just returning a debt to her.😭

Kirshna and Dhrishtdyumna are only words

Bhima is words + actions. I don't think when it comes to caring for Drau any one can be compared to Bhima. But to each their own i guess.

That was not just "one thing" sabhayaya. It was a very important statement at that juncture and the context in which it was spoken. He was not merely supporting his brother dearest against duryodhan. He was supporting and picking yudhishtra over panchali and throwing her in the line of fire. It meant a lot. .

And no both krishna and drishtdyum were there in the battlefield for 18 days of war. Drishtdyum was commander in chief who led at the forefront for 18 days of war. Krishna was there too. Facing everything just so that both of them can fullfilll their respective promises. There words were not just mere words . These two guys actually supported panchali s ideas of justice and punishment throwout against yudhishtra against everyone else something that bheem didn't

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

The statement is relevant because just as I have no right to offer Tom Cruise, Krishna had no right to offer Draupadi. .

I don't look at it as random statement, it was a Random statement since it was made by someone who has no right to make it

See i am not saying he didn't care about Drau. He did. But that doesn't mean he was perfect. I don't view any character as perfect. He said and did wrong things as well. It is one case here where i find him wrong as in wronging Drau. They do share other beautiful moments as well No doubt.

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

Yes he was overconfident. I can see him "sparing the lives" of yudi sahadev and nakul but bhim seriously ?? Wasn't he the same man who defeated anga during the imperial campaign and several times defeated karna in war too.

I guess he was trying to play both the parties. Krishna just used his nature against him.

I don't think so he was playing both sides. Guy lost his life and life of eight of his sons & all his (foster) brothers in the war. He might have not been a great person, but doubting his loyalty after all this seems being too harsh on him.

If playing both sides was his intention he could have revealed it to Arjun at the end, maybe he would have still been killed, but most probably his remaining sons would have escaped this fate. Neither Krishna, nor Arjun nor Kunti had anything personal against his sons, aside none of his sons (except maybe Vrishsen who by then was already dead) could have contributed much from Kaurav side anyway, Pandavas would have definitely spared them had they known the relationship.

The defeat to Bheem in Rajsuya Yagya was an army defeat more than an individual defeat. Definitely Anga army was very small and less powerful than the Indraprasth army. That he showed some resistance is in itself reflects his strength (at least Karna would have taken it that way). Karna definitely did consider Bheem less than himself

The defeats in the war happened after the promise, don't think much could have been done post that

Originally posted by: Sabhayata

Arrey but how Krishna and Drau's relationship of friends, companion and adviser be compared to you and Tom cruise when you have probably even never met him in real life?

See i am not saying he didn't care about Drau. He did. But that doesn't mean he was perfect. I don't view any character as perfect. He said and did wrong things as well. It is one case here where i find him wrong as in wronging Drau. They do share other beautiful moments as well No doubt.

The point here is he didn't meant that at all. He is the same guy who promised panchali the punishment of chandal chaukdi. He is the same guy who asked Sanjaya to warn dritrashtra of the consequence of hurting panchali. Panchali was his best friend. Karna was an enemy. So his words to his bestie holds more importance more truth. He was playing karna that s it. Lying to him. Manipulating him. Krishna was certainly wrong in subdhara haran fiasco. But here it was pure manipulation.