~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 3

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Krishna never cared about Drona. Drona was Drupad's revenge.

He had bigger problems.. Starting from Jarasandh and ending with Balram

He needed a friend, a brother, a warrior, maybe someone who would just listen to him and ask important questions. Arjun fit all these roles beautifully.

Again please look at bigger picture like Krishna. He had multiple problems..multiple strategies going on simultaneously to deal with each of those problems. Some worked. Some failed

He was an expert politician adapting himself to people and situations and moving on towards his end goal.

However I am still having an open mind and I can accept that Krishna did not back stab Yudhi and Drau and BANS

If someone can tell me a good reason why Krishna if he suspected something bad was going to happen, did not alert Pandavas their sons and Panchalas and stay back to deal with it. Why did he remove Pandavas and Satyaki from the camp.

@Chiillii

What r ur views on krishna saying daruka about arjun that he don't want live in world where there is no arjun, it clearly tells he keep arjun above everyone , something like that I don't remember d citations.

What r ur views regarding d boon of eternal friendship krishna asked with arjun during khandavprastha.

I dont believe in boons and curses or divinity. Krishna and Arjun were flesh and blood humans like us. I dont believe they were any Nara or Narayana.

But I believe their friendship and bonding was real. Krishna had a loving childhood with Yashoda and Nanda and his cowherd friends. But from the moment he landed in Dwarka he was all alone. Even Balram got greedy and power hungry and went to the darkside.

Ofcourse he had his wives. Who were great women. But they could never take that position of friend and brother that Arjun did.

At the end of the day, the smartest man of the time, the shrewd politician was still human at heart who needed a genuine friend and that friend was Arjun.

I don't think arjuna was the important person/friend for krishna for a simple reason that whenever it came to picking a side he always choose panchali over arjuna.

1. If Krishna knew what Ashwatthama was going to do, he could only have heard it from the people involved. None of them were killed. Why didn't they say something?

That shatters the whole theory of Krishna knowing about the murders.

People talk, @Chili, and none if them said anything of the sort.

2. Why Krishna took the Pandavas away if he didn't know: why do people do anything which later results in a something bad? Because they DIDN'T know. You yourself said it. Many things can go wrong at any time. Krishna took them away, and the enemy took advantage of their absence.

3. Actually, it would've been easier if Krishna DIDN'T take the Pandavas away . You're assuming sleeping Pandavas could've stopped the massacre, but they weren't beyond being murdered. Once they were gone, Krishna would have exactly what he needed as per you.

Let's say you're right about him wanting only Arjuna. Why didn't he simply take Arjuna away then? It was easy enough since they'd gone off together multiple times.

4. Backtracking a bit: none of this Krishna the Backstabber theory explains how Arjuna would've gotten rid of Jarasandha. Bheema was needed. Bheema would only come if Panchali were married to Yudhishtira. Aa far as Arjuna's archery skills... Krishna was also supposed to be an ace archer . He didn't need Arjuna to kill Jarasandha. Bheema was the one needed since the emperor believed it beneath him to fight Krishna hand to hand.

How exactly was Arjuna important to Krishna's plan for world domination in this theory? Whatever Arjuna could do, Krishna could also do. BHEEMA was who was needed initially, not Arjuna. Arjuna's importance came in the final war which Krishna couldn't have foreseen.

If it were only for friendship, they weren't friends before swayamvara for Krishna to plot it. The first time the friendship is mentioned is after Subhadraharan.

5. Also, if Krishna wanted Arjuna's support, all he needed to do was invite him to Dwaraka and marry him to Subhadra even BEFORE Panchali swaymavara! No elaborate plot needed.😆

6. Nor does the theory explain Panchali's nonreaction to Krishna's supposed tricks. In the beginning, marrying Arjuna to Panchali would get Krishna support from Arjuna exactly how? Either Panchali needed to talk him into it or Panchal. Which would mean Panchali was colluding with Krishna, and Vyasa outwitted both of them by marrying her to Yudhishtira.

It would be an incredibly stupid on Vyasa's part if he tricked the woman he called Saraswati into marrying Yudhishtira because what would stop her from say poisoning him and perhaps having Bheem done away with after Jarasandha

Let's say she was too young to recognize it.

She wasn't too young to recognize it during and after dice hall.

Later, she is too old to react to it? After Krishna's DEATH when Arjuna was powerless, and she could've easily gotten her back by putting a random chap in place of Parikshit? If Yudhishtira felt Krishna tricked all of them, he'd have complied, too. Even if he didn't, Bheema would've listened to her, and Arjuna to Bheema.

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See, theories cannot work in a vacuum. There are other people around, not just Krishna. Each action will be met with some kind of reaction unless the rest of the characters are under mind control drugs. This theory of Krishna being backstabber will only work if he somehow DID manage to feed the rest with poisonous nightshade or something. Including Panchali who then turned into a fool at convenient times and very smart in equally convenient spots.

Guess what I found?

CE Vol 7, Chapter 1281 (62)

So Krishna got to know of Ashwatthama's plan to kill the Pandavas, and he openly discussed it with Gandhari and Dhritharashtra AS WELL AS Vyasa and the Pandavas.

So unless they were ALL in on Krishna's strange plan for whatever weird reason, they went away because they didn't imagine Ashwatthama would kill other people, instead.

ing comforted Gandhari and Dhritarashtra, Keshava got to know72 what Drona’s son was

planning. O Indra among kings! He swiftly arose. He bowed down before Dvaipayana and touched his

feet with his head. He then told Kourava, “O best among the Kuru lineage! I must take your leave. Do

not sorrow in your mind. Drona’s son has a wicked intention. That is the reason I have suddenly got

up. He has decided to kill the Pandavas in the night.” On hearing these words, Dhritarashtra and

Gandhari spoke to Keshava, the slayer of Keshi.

73 “O mighty-armed one! Go quickly and protect the

Pandavas. O Janardana! Let us meet again, soon.” With Daruka, Achyuta left swiftly. O king! When

Vasudeva had departed, Dhritarashtra, the lord of men, was comforted by Vyasa, revered by the world

and immeasurable in his soul. O king! Having been successful, Vasudeva, with dharma in his soul,

departed from Hastinapura, wishing to see the Pandavas in their camp. Having arrived in the camp in

the night, he met the Pandavas and seated with them, told them everything that had happened.

You, Krishna was a genuine friend to Arjuna as per this theory 😆

The friend who plotted against his brothers, got his son killed on purpose, manipulated him at every turn. God save us from friends like that.

Unless of course, Arjuna were under mind control and didn't mind any of it.

Edited to add: I just realized there is one way this theory would be logical. Panchali was in cahoots with Krishna. They were a truly evil couple.

On that lovely thought, I belive I'm done with this discussion. For reals this time😆 as the above post has citation which goes in the opposite direction of this theory.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Krishna never cared about Drona. Drona was Drupad's revenge.

He had bigger problems.. Starting from Jarasandh and ending with Balram

He needed a friend, a brother, a warrior, maybe someone who would just listen to him and ask important questions. Arjun fit all these roles beautifully.

Again please look at bigger picture like Krishna. He had multiple problems..multiple strategies going on simultaneously to deal with each of those problems. Some worked. Some failed

He was an expert politician adapting himself to people and situations and moving on towards his end goal.

However I am still having an open mind and I can accept that Krishna did not back stab Yudhi and Drau and BANS

If someone can tell me a good reason why Krishna if he suspected something bad was going to happen, did not alert Pandavas their sons and Panchalas and stay back to deal with it. Why did he remove Pandavas and Satyaki from the camp.

Jasarandh s death was planned by krishna and bhim excuted it.

He wanted to acquire panchal support for his plans he could have conducted plan against drona much earlier and in the actual war too it was he who planned and bhim and drishtdyum excuted. Arjuna had absolutely no role in either of these. You said that he wanted arjuna to marry Panchali so as to fullfilll drapaud s wish and gain both arjuna and panchal alliance for himself. But clearly he didn't needed arjuna. He could have easily defeated drona for drapaud and won panchals s support. Arjuna didn't played any great role in jasarandh death either. So not needed for it either.

Yes krishna has multiple strategies going on and so did vyasa and so did other prominent players. Krishna very well adapted to situation. Infact panchali s polygamous marriage helped him to remove jarasandh which Arjuna alone wouldn't have been able to fullfilll. Bheem was needed.

I fail to understand arjuna s importance in krishna s plan because he clearly had no role in any of krishna s importance plans

Krishna marriage to panchali could had not given her anything rather than waiting in d long list of 16000 wives , not getting patrani ,aka chief position which was stricly reserved 4 Rukmini & satyabhama was not great to share her position with anyone , she was already struggling b/w 16000 . After so much drama done by satyabhama she never got main chief queen position of krishna. Rukmini always enjoyed prime queen position

Regarding draupadi jaha krishna itni shaadi charity ke liye ki thi ek aur sahi kya faraq parta Rukmini ko.

Nothing suggest krishna was interested in draupadi he don't need to coz he was not latoo on her beauty , he already had many with him . Nor draupadi can stop him in marrying anyone else.

During draupadi"s swayamber he was already married thrice .

Pity on people who don't understand d purity of krishna draupadi's relationship which of a friend not more than that nor less than that, it was pure friends hip

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Krishna marriage to panchali could had not given her anything rather than waiting in d long list of 16000 wives , not getting patrani ,aka chief position which was stricly reserved 4 Rukmini & satyabhama was not great to share her position with anyone , she was already struggling b/w 16000 . After so much drama done by satyabhama she never got main chief queen position of krishna. Rukmini always enjoyed prime queen position

Regarding draupadi jaha krishna itni shaadi charity ke liye ki thi ek aur sahi kya faraq parta Rukmini ko.

Nothing suggest krishna was interested in draupadi he don't need to coz he was not latoo on her beauty , he already had many with him . Nor draupadi can stop him in marrying anyone else.

During draupadi"s swayamber he was already married thrice .

Pity on people who don't understand d purity of krishna draupadi's relationship which of a friend not more than that nor less than that, it was pure friends hip

😆

She is saying if Krishna wanted Panchal's support so badly, he didn't need to go through Arjuna. Krishna could've simply married Panchali which would've been a more solid connection, and he could've married Subhadra to Arjuna to get him that way.

This theory makes no sense is the bottomline.

Arjuna was never the intended groom for anyone involved in Panchali swayamvara. It was always Yudhishtira.

I absolutely don't like such condensing tone for panchali TO BE Very HONEST.

And what s with ehsaan thingy. How important panchali was to krishna can easily be concluded if one actually attempt to read Mahabharata.

And i was just giving my opinion plus there are many things throughout the text that suggest that there was nothing stopping krishna from marrying krishnaa had it not bern for various circumstances

Plus this is purely my opinion. I think we can respect that atleast