Why Parikshit? - Page 9

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

We only have kmg and CE for reference so we can't be sure even if she does mentions in another version 😆

Nepali and Kashmiri version are said to be the oldest and most authentic less adulterated. So i want to read those. There swarghoran is not mentioned but instead drapaudi is said to have walked out on pandavas and gone to her biological parents not drapaud as he adopted her. So we can't be sure.

But how are you di ??

That’s true with so many versions and contradictions it’s difficult to say what s true, what s folklore . And mahabharat s like big puzzle.

i am fyn adhya, h r u?
Wish this corona s just nightmare, 2020 s not something we ll ever forget.

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

We only have kmg and CE for reference so we can't be sure even if she does mentions in another version 😆

Nepali and Kashmiri version are said to be the oldest and most authentic less adulterated. So i want to read those. There swarghoran is not mentioned but instead drapaudi is said to have walked out on pandavas and gone to her biological parents not drapaud as he adopted her. So we can't be sure.

But how are you di ??

@ Bold. Only in Tharu Barka Naach version from Nepal as far as I'm aware. And it says she went on an agni pilgrimage which I interpreted as bio family.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

None of the calculations given here is possible without believing in 200 year old Bheeshma.

If you believe that, then no argument. Even then, Ghatotkatch supposedly shot to adulthood right after his birth, so his son would be in his teens/twenties by the time of war.😆

If you believe in normal laws of physics and biology, DRONA is the only one whose age is stated in MBh. He is plainly stated to be 85 at Kurukshetra. He was Bheeshma's generation. If 85 to 90 year old Bheeshma was Pandavas' grandfather, then yes, Abhimanyu was in his teens to early 20s.

Also, in a post above, there a citations to actually who trained Abhimanyu. It wasn't his father. It was Pradyumna.

Even if we were to consider the theory of Arjuna training Abhimanyu... when? Arjuna left on imperial campaign soon after Khandava prastha. When he returned, it was in time for rajasuya. Then, dice hall happened.

Once again, Abhimanyu being an adult is a theory put forward to somehow normalize the MURDER done by Kauravas and Drona and Karna. They were murderers, pure and simple, not heroes, not warriors. It would be murder even if Abhimanyu were an adult which he was not.

I am not debating why Abhimanyu's murder was fair or anything, The rules were for everyone, if Arjuna had died like this, it would have been as unfair, its not unfair because of him being a teenager

I have provided citation which States that Arjuna trained them, Dhritrastra saying 33 years have passed since Forest burning incident, Bheema's grandson fighting the war and Upapandavas with Abhimanyu participating in Rajsuya yagya

This is the base for my belief in Abhimanyu being 30+, I don't know how that makes Bheeshma 200 years old

There's differences of 10 years between 20 and 30, how's Bheeshma 90 when Abhimanyu is 20 but 200 when Abhimanyu is 30?

Quoting you -

"Abhimanyu was born right before imperial campaign. If the campaign, rajasuya, dice game took 5 or so years, Abhimanyu would have been 18. Even if you stretch it and say 10 years, he would've been 23."

According to you Abhimanyu could have been 23 too, there's only 7 years of difference between 30 and 23

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I am not debating why Abhimanyu's murder was fair or anything, The rules were for everyone, if Arjuna had died like this, it would have been as unfair, its not unfair because of him being a teenager

I have provided citation which States that Arjuna trained them, Dhritrastra saying 33 years have passed since Forest burning incident, Bheema's grandson fighting the war and Upapandavas with Abhimanyu participating in Rajsuya yagya

This is the base for my belief in Abhimanyu being 30+, I don't know how that makes Bheeshma 200 years old

There's differences of 10 years between 20 and 30, how's Bheeshma 90 when Abhimanyu is 20 but 200 when Abhimanyu is 30?

Because if Drona and Bheeshma were 85 to 90, Abhimanyu, being their great grandson's generation, could not possibly have been 33 during war. It's biology. Even if each gen of mothers was 15ish, fathers weren't. Pandu took a while to have ARjuna. Arjuna took a while to marry Subhadra. Even if each gen was only 20ish, it would still leave Arjuna in his mid 40s during Kurukshetra. If he had a 33 year old son, then he would have had to meet Subhadra at 11 and produce Abhimanyu by 12. Which means Iravan was probably born when Arjuna was in diapers.😆

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

^^^ Why wouldn't Krishna and Pandavas children marry?? They are still cross cousins and cross cousin marriages were common back them in Yadavs

Arjun and Subhadra were first cousins themselves yet they married so why an issue in the marriage of Draupadi's daughter by someone who isn't even Subhadra's husband to Krishna's son?

I think u r rt, marriage between cousins r common after all, but there was no daughter and I don’t think she ever married bhanu, because Krishna and satya never mentions about suthanu but they does assures about her sons, if suthanu s daughter in law they would have at least assured about her, but they never did, even when daupadi was explaining stree dharma to satya she mentions about her sons but never about suthanu r any daughter, and vyasa himself never shyed about talking daughters before. Even if yudi had daughter might be with some other wife.

Originally posted by: swathi90

I think u r rt, marriage between cousins r common after all, but there was no daughter and I don’t think she ever married bhanu, because Krishna and satya never mentions about suthanu but they does assures about her sons, if suthanu s daughter in law they would have at least assured about her, but they never did, even when daupadi was explaining stree dharma to satya she mentions about her sons but never about suthanu r any daughter, and vyasa himself never shyed about talking daughters before. Even if yudi had daughter might be with some other wife.

Can you post citation where Panchali talks about upapandavas? I just checked CE and don't see it at all.

Mahabharata as written by Vyasa has two basic plot points.

1. Journey of Yudhishtir as a man, from a fatherless child at the mercy of relatives to his rise to be an emperor, than his downfall due to his own deeds, his repentance and fight for justice. His remorse at the final consequences and his eventual detachment and journey towards heaven

2. The war at Kurukshetra

If Vyasa only paid attention to the former the story would be a melodrama that not many people will be willing to pay attention to.

The war at Kurukshetra added the much needed action to grab people's attention to the lessons he wanted to impart from the story.

But over generations Mahabharata became. More about the war than life lessons from Yudhishtir.

So from the first narration by Vaishyampayana to even now whenever someone says Mahabharata the first question anyone asks why did the war happen

It is not who was Yudhishtir what is his story

War is story of men not women

Also the patriarchal society then and subsequent generations till now deemed women inconsequential and irrelevant in any story unless there is a major plot point revolving around them.

So we know Kunti's maiden name is Pritha because she gets adopted by Kuntibhoj but she is Vasudev's sister and there the heroes Pandavas are Krishna's cousins.

There is no similar plot point for Gandhari, so her proper name is never taken in the epic. Same with Madri. (Gandhari was a title for princess of Gandhar it was not her name, just like Kunti)

Shivaji Sawant or Kavitha Kane comes up on her own with a name for Karna's wife as Uruvi.

But there is no name for any of the wives of Karna or Duryodhan or Dusshasan anywhere in the epic.

We have the name of Duryodhan's daughter lakshmana in harivansh because it's a plot point to praise Balaram how he saved Samba by threatening Hastinapur by using his plough to drag Ganga to submerge the city.

There is no such story or plot point to praise the pandavas or Krishna or anybody else in case of Suthanu, so her name is not mentioned.

Dussala gets a mention because Gandhari's asks Vyasa to do a miracle and give her a daughter as well and her husband eventually turns out to be Jayadrath the great who is not punished for kidnapping Draupadi only because he is Dussala's husband.

Do you all really think there were no daughters born in that era and women only had sons. Where do you think Krishna's 8 wives, Arjun's 4 in the epic and atleast 7 otherwise as well as everyone's came from.

Because if we follow the logic of Bhagvatham where Shiva gives Krishna a boon that each of his wives will have 10 sons and 1 daughter and that Pandavas only had sons. Or Gandhari had only 1 daughter after 100 sons and Kunti had only 5, Krishna's father had 25 sons and only 1 daughter Pandavas had 15 plus sons and no daughter then half the male population in that era would have to be brahmachari.

There were daughters too being born, just that their birth was of no consequence to be even discussed till their presence had something to do with glory for their father or husband or son or brother

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Because if Drona and Bheeshma were 85 to 90, Abhimanyu, being their great grandson's generation, could not possibly have been 33 during war. 😆 It's biology. Even if each gen of mothers was 15ish, fathers weren't. Pandu took a while to have ARjuna. Arjuna took a while to marry Subhadra. Even if each gen was only 20ish, it would still leave Arjuna in his mid 40s during Kurukshetra. If he had a 33 year old son, then he would have had to meet Subhadra at 11 and produce Abhimanyu by 12. Which means Iravan was probably born when Arjuna was in diapers.😆

Bheema had a grandson old enough to fight the war

How are we holding on to Drona being 85 and ignoring everything else?

Just tell me

How can Abhimanyu be 23 and Arjuna be in his mid 40s and Bheeshma be 90 but Abhimanyu being 30 sends him in diapers when he had Iravan? The difference is merely 7 years

It just means Drona wasn't 85

Because Arjuna clearly wasn't in his 20s when he had Abhimanyu

Hey guys I think back then ages and timings r different, it’s dwapar yuga after all, maybe 200 was common age back then, because in treta yug ram ji ruled ayodhya for 10, 000 years, so ages r different back then, durvasa muni we can hear about him in satya yug, and he was mentioned in dwapar yug also, maybe being in thirties s young back then.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Bheema had a grandson old enough to fight the war

How are we holding on to Drona being 85 and ignoring everything else?

Just tell me

How can Abhimanyu be 23 and Arjuna be in his mid 40s but Abhimanyu being 30 sends him in diapers when he had Iravan? The difference is merely 7 years

Because of 2 reasons. 1) his age is the only age actually mentioned in MBh

2) If we remove divine angle, there is no way a man older than that could've caused the havoc Bheeshma did. Cataract, arthritis... these kind of things take a toll. Human body is human body.

Now, if you don't believe biology and physics had roles in it, there is no argument. When it's divinely ordained, anything can happen.

If we stick to regular laws which govern the universe, Abhimanyu being 23 is fine but you actually said 33 before. If Arjuna was in mid 40s by war and Abhimanyu 33, that means Abhimanyu was born when Arjuna was 12! That is, he met Subhadra at 11. Even if we take exile as 13 months, Arjuna met Uloopi at the beginning of exile which means he was 10. If you take exile as 12 years, Arjuna would have had to meet Uloopi as an infant!

Whereas if Arjuna was 45 by war, Abhimanyu 18-23, and first exile 13 months, the timeline works out.

______________________

I don't know how to explain the math any better than this.

if you still choose to believe Abhimanyu was 33, more power to you.