Remove following characters from the epic - Page 2

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

That is not the case. Duryodhan knew Bheeshm was a better warrior and commander in chief, plus he was a name under which majority of his army could have agreed for, he didn't have any anyone else of that calibre. Despite of his distrust for Bheeshm, he was the best option he had.

Karna denied to fight under his leadership in the last moment by then the war was declared and things had escalated. He couldn't have backed off then.

Aside it was not like Karna was not at all with him. Karna was very much present in Kurukshetra and they must have been discussing the strategies too. Duryodhan knew that if at all he found Bheeshm proving to be a betrayer, he would easily trade him for Karna. Since Bheeshm never betrayed hence that wasn't needed

To be on someone's side doesn't mean only to fight from their side

This situation is different from one where Karna was not at all present in the picture. He couldn't have thought of going into the war in such scenario. Aside as I said it was Karna during his Vijay Yatra who had won majority support for Kauravas winning over many Pandava allies too.

Yeah, I forgot about the Vishmi yagna and Karna's associated conquests. Had Karna not been around, Duryodhan couldn't have sent Bheeshma or Drona to do this. Even Ashwatthama doubtful, given that he was a Brahmin.

Ironically, much of what we are discussing would have been true had Kunti, the day that Karna surfaced at the tournament, declared to everyone that he was her firstborn son. Yeah, she'd have been mocked by the Kauravas, but the Pandavas wouldn't have disrespected Karna, and he too would have loved Arjun, as opposed to hating him

The opposition to Duryodhan would have looked even more formidable

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Ironically, much of what we are discussing would have been true had Kunti, the day that Karna surfaced at the tournament, declared to everyone that he was her firstborn son. Yeah, she'd have been mocked by the Kauravas, but the Pandavas wouldn't have disrespected Karna, and he too would have loved Arjun, as opposed to hating him

The opposition to Duryodhan would have looked even more formidable

Had that been the case would you have hated kunti so much? she could have been ultimate badass of MB coming out with maximum guard, just imagine the scene, also the entire womankind would have been spared of yudhi's curse😆 (not that it works works😈)

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Actually that's what I answered, probably there would have been no war at all had Karna not been there

1) Not such personal humiliation of Draupadi

2) Non confidence of Duryodhan to enter the war

3) No one to further agitate Duryodhan against Pandavas

No war means no Mahabharata

Thanks For Explaining

So Karna was a part of Duryodhana's Strategy, however Bheeshma ranked him as Half Rathi, Karna lost to Abhimanyu, Satyaki, Drupad, Bheema and Arjun

The number of times Karna has left Duryodhana to fend for himself 😂🤣 I can't with this guy trusting Karna. You know Karna left him in jungle when they went to boast in front of Pandavas, then during Virat war

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Ironically, much of what we are discussing would have been true had Kunti, the day that Karna surfaced at the tournament, declared to everyone that he was her firstborn son. Yeah, she'd have been mocked by the Kauravas, but the Pandavas wouldn't have disrespected Karna, and he too would have loved Arjun, as opposed to hating him

The opposition to Duryodhan would have looked even more formidable

Karna was always there with Duryodhana, Kunti must have witnessed him growing up

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Thanks For Explaining

So Karna was a part of Duryodhana's Strategy, however Bheeshma ranked him as Half Rathi, Karna lost to Abhimanyu, Satyaki, Drupad, Bheema and Arjun

The number of times Karna has left Duryodhana to fend for himself 😂🤣 I can't with this guy trusting Karna. You know Karna left him in jungle when they went to boast in front of Pandavas, then during Virat war

He didn't leave Duryodhan to fend for himself during Virat war, they were the parts of different units and Karna nearly had got unconscious. Yes he definitely left Duryodhan during Goshala Yatra. But I am sure he gave some good explanation for this

Any case Karna was important to Duryodhan both for the war as well as personally. The latter trusted him blindly more than he did his family

Bheeshm ranking him Half Rathi I think was due to his personal anger and differences. Karna was definitely at least a Ashtrathi it not a Maharathi

Mbh wouldn't have been possible without Karna. He was the only political support Suyodhana had who wasn't useless. Dhritharashtra was weak. Shakuni's only prowess was with dice. Dusshasana was a perv and hardly likely to make his big brother popular.

Without Karna, I doubt Suyodhana would've dared most of what he did.

Without Karna, dice hall wouldn't have deteriorated as badly.

Without Karna, war would've ended sooner.

Without Karna pushing Drona, Abhimanyu might have been alive.

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I don't like Karna and consider him a precursor to the acid throwers of today. But the tendency to minimize him amaze me. For one, it's not true. For another, the hero is only as good as your villain. If Karna wasn't important, then it follows Arjuna wasn't, either.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

He didn't leave Duryodhan to fend for himself during Virat war, they were the parts of different units and Karna nearly had got unconscious. Yes he definitely left Duryodhan during Goshala Yatra. But I am sure he gave some good explanation for this

Any case Karna was important to Duryodhan both for the war as well as personally. The latter trusted him blindly more than he did his family

Bheeshm ranking him Half Rathi I think was due to his personal anger and differences. Karna was definitely at least a Ashtrathi it not a Maharathi

I do wonder if Karna was Dury's soulmate, generally television shows give this place to Shakuni but as I read everything here, it looks like Karna was the power behind Dury

"As regards this thy ever dear friend, this one who is always boastful of his skill in battle, this one who always urgeth thee, O king, to fight with the Pandavas, this vile braggart, Karna, the son of Surya, this one who is thy counsellor, guide, and friend, this vain wight who is destitute of sense, this Karna, is neither a Ratha nor an Atiratha. Without sense, this one hath been deprived of his natural coat of mail. Always kind, he hath also been deprived of his celestial ear-rings. In consequence of the curse of Rama (his preceptor in arms) as also of the words of a Brahmana (who cursed him on another occasion), owing also to his deprivation of the accoutrements of battle, he, in my judgment, is only half a Ratha. Having approached Falguni (in battle), he will not certainly escape with life!' Hearing this, Drona, that foremost of all wielders of weapons, said, 'It is even so as thou hast said. That is not untrue! He boasteth on the eve of every battle, but yet he is seen to retreat from every engagement. Kind (out of season) and blundering, it is for this that Karna, in my judgment, is only half a Ratha!

Bheeshma and Drona both ranked him as Half rathi because of his curses and his tendency to leave the battlefield

I do wonder, if Bheeshma did this to rile him up so he would back off from the war and Bheeshma did succeed in this

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Mbh wouldn't have been possible without Karna. He was the only political support Suyodhana had who wasn't useless. Dhritharashtra was weak. Shakuni's only prowess was with dice. Dusshasana was a perv and hardly likely to make his big brother popular.

Without Karna, I doubt Suyodhana would've dared most of what he did.

Without Karna, dice hall wouldn't have deteriorated as badly.

Without Karna, war would've ended sooner.

Without Karna pushing Drona, Abhimanyu might have been alive.

------

I don't like Karna and consider him a precursor to the acid throwers of today. But the tendency to minimize him amaze me. For one, it's not true. For another, the hero is only as good as your villain. If Karna wasn't important, then it follows Arjuna wasn't, either.

There's nothing to minimize anyone, I created this post after getting to know that he didn't participate in the war for 10 days, that's 55% of the war, Duryodhana actually went ahead without Karna in the battlefield, The war lasted for 10 days without Karna, it ended in 8 days without Bheeshma

Originally posted by: NoraSM

There's nothing to minimize anyone, I created this post after getting to know that he didn't participate in the war for 10 days, that's 55% of the war, Duryodhana actually went ahead without Karna in the battlefield, The war lasted for 10 days without Karna, it ended in 8 days without Bheeshma

I wasn't talking about you or this post specifically. A spate of MBh based books have claimed Karna wasn't all that. I'm confused by that argument TBH. If Karna was a weak warrior, well what exactly did Arjuna achieve in the Kurukshetra war except slaughter common soldiers?