Science in Mahabharata - Page 9

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Oh is it? But I still doubt a princess would have been indulged with a charioteer.

Reincarnation thing I have never heard will check now you suggested but he being called epitome of Dharma was definitely a reality..

Arjun I would have said Bheeshm had it not been for the vow. He matched Bheeshm in capability, he was always like the favourite of Bheeshm and Bheeshm was as mighty as Indra (at least in reference) in fact Ganga too cursed Arjun to be killed by his son (as per the folklores I don't think it's there in MB) since her son Bheeshm was killed by his son.

All the points do add up, it's just the vow that is a blockage

Oh makes complete sense if not the vow. I would love to believe Arjun was Bhishma's son tbh. Even Drona makes a good father to him though that is not possible. XD BTW, is there any conversation that really shows Indra being referred to as a father by Arjun? I think not.

However if we consider Indraloka as a foreign land it is possible that he was fathered by a foreign prince tho I don't see how that can happen as Kunti was pregnant in the forest. Maybe he came to India for something? Lol. 🤣

I just checked Jaya, it said Vidur was an incarnation of Yama. If we consider this folktale as true, your theory stands correct.

Quoting from Jaya -

Vidura was none other than Yama, the god of death, living out a curse. This is how it happened.

Once, a group of thieves took refuge in the hermitage of sage Mandavya who was at that time lost in meditation, totally unaware of their presence. When they were discovered by the king’s guards,Mandavya was accused of aiding them and as punishment was tortured and impaled. When he appeared before Yama, ruler of the dead, he demanded an explanation for his suffering for he had hurt no living creature in his life. ‘Yes, you have. When you were a child, you took delight in impaling tiny insects on a straw,’ said Yama. ‘Your suffering was repayment for the karmic debt incurred then.’

Mandavya protested that being punished for crimes committed in childhood, when one is innocent, was not fair. ‘That is the law of karma,’ replied a dispassionate Yama. A furious Mandavya then cursed Yama that he would take birth as a man and suffer the fate of never being a king despite having all the qualities of the perfect ruler. And so was born Vidura.

I do not know the source of this story or whether it is mentioned in the epic though.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

http://mahabharata-resources.org/harivamsa/hv_1_31.html

Whole Athiratha blood line is mentioned.

Anga clearly belonged to Hastinapuri at the time of rangbhoomi as Suyodhana couldn't possibly have given it to Karna if not.

This then is definitely a good theory and seems most probable.

Probably Kunti sent him to his biological dad

Aside Kunti/Gandhari/Madri etc aren't the names they just represent the kingdoms they belonged to. Hence it's highly probable that even Karna's biological dad didn't know that she was the princess

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Yudhishtira: Vidur. Why? Because Vyasa says so to Yudhishtira after war.

Oh that's clear then. Citations?

Bheem: my bet is on Shalya, Madri's brother. I can't tell you where from because I don't remember, but he was supposed to be partial avatar of vayu.

But why would Shalya impregnate Kunti unless it was an extra marital affair?

Arjuna: Shakra. We know this.

Explain please 😆

Nakul/Sahdev: my bet is on Dhaumya. Only because as Kunti's cousin, Dhaumya could be trusted to keep his mouth shut. Same for Shalya as Bheema's father.

Yes and they were born of Madri right?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

This then is definitely a good theory and seems most probable.

Probably Kunti sent him to his biological dad

Aside Kunti/Gandhari/Madri etc aren't the names they just represent the kingdoms they belonged to. Hence it's highly probable that even Karna's biological dad didn't know that she was the princess

Exactly the reason why it is highly probable that there were many Gandharis who gave birth to Dhrit's 100 sons.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Vyas says to Yudhishtir? Could you please elaborate

And Shakra is the Indra na of that time, so how come he is a human

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m15/m15028.htm

At the command of the Grandsire, and through my own energy, Vidura of great intelligence was procreated by me upon a soil owned by Vichitraviryya. A deity of deities, and eternal, he was, O king, thy brother. The learned know him to be Dharma in consequence of his practices of Dharana and Dhyana. 2 He grows with (the growth of) truth, self-restraint, tranquillity of heart, compassion, and gifts. He is always engaged in penances, and is eternal. From that deity of Righteousness, through Yoga-puissance, the Kuru king Yudhishthira also took his birth. Yudhishthira, therefore, O king, is Dharma of great wisdom and immeasurable intelligence

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Oh makes complete sense if not the vow. I would love to believe Arjun was Bhishma's son tbh. Even Drona makes a good father to him though that is not possible. XD BTW, is there any conversation that really shows Indra being referred to as a father by Arjun? I think not.

However if we consider Indraloka as a foreign land it is possible that he was fathered by a foreign prince tho I don't see how that can happen as Kunti was pregnant in the forest. Maybe he came to India for something? Lol. 🤣

I just checked Jaya, it said Vidur was an incarnation of Yama. If we consider this folktale as true, your theory stands correct.

Quoting from Jaya -

Vidura was none other than Yama, the god of death, living out a curse. This is how it happened.

Once, a group of thieves took refuge in the hermitage of sage Mandavya who was at that time lost in meditation, totally unaware of their presence. When they were discovered by the king’s guards,Mandavya was accused of aiding them and as punishment was tortured and impaled. When he appeared before Yama, ruler of the dead, he demanded an explanation for his suffering for he had hurt no living creature in his life. ‘Yes, you have. When you were a child, you took delight in impaling tiny insects on a straw,’ said Yama. ‘Your suffering was repayment for the karmic debt incurred then.’

Mandavya protested that being punished for crimes committed in childhood, when one is innocent, was not fair. ‘That is the law of karma,’ replied a dispassionate Yama. A furious Mandavya then cursed Yama that he would take birth as a man and suffer the fate of never being a king despite having all the qualities of the perfect ruler. And so was born Vidura.

I do not know the source of this story or whether it is mentioned in the epic though.

I doubt it's mentioned in epic but if at all this folklore has any relevance I guess we got the biological dad of Yudhishtir

Arjun could be the son of the king/Pharaoh of Egypt, they considered Pharaoh as chief God and his representative in earth and the land was around central Asia which supposed to be the land of Indra if Aryan invasion theory is true

@HearMeRoar - what's your name? 😆

Please elaborate on Shakra bit too!

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Yudhishtira: Vidur. Why? Because Vyasa says so to Yudhishtira after war.

Oh that's clear then. Citations?

Bheem: my bet is on Shalya, Madri's brother. I can't tell you where from because I don't remember, but he was supposed to be partial avatar of vayu.

But why would Shalya impregnate Kunti unless it was an extra marital affair?

Arjuna: Shakra. We know this.

Explain please

Nakul/Sahdev: my bet is on Dhaumya. Only because as Kunti's cousin, Dhaumya could be trusted to keep his mouth shut. Same for Shalya as Bheema's father.

Yes and they were born of Madri right?

Yudhishtira: citation above

Bheema: I don't have citation for Shalya being partial Vayu, just remember reading it. Him because as Madri's brother, he wouldn't blab that Pandu's son with Pritha was actually his.

Arjuna: Indra is actually title carried by Shakra at the time. I'd assume Pandu wanted an ally.

Twins: also guess work since twins run in families (Dhaumya/Devala), and he was Pritha's cousin and could be trusted not to talk about it.

Not extramarital affairs. Surrogacy.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Yudhishtira: citation above

Bheema: I don't have citation for Shalya being partial Vayu, just remember reading it. Him because as Madri's brother, he wouldn't blab that Pandu's son with Pritha was actually his.

Arjuna: Indra is actually title carried by Shakra at the time. I'd assume Pandu wanted an ally.

Twins: also guess work since twins run in families (Dhaumya/Devala), and he was Pritha's cousin and could be trusted not to talk about it.

Not extramarital affairs. Surrogacy.

Alright. Shakra is from which kingdom though? I can't recall. I do remember reading he is Indra though.

Also, we are considering Pandu here as impotent right? Because if we remove this curse bit then there was no other way he could not have reproduced. Surrogacy would mean the children could be Pandu's too. But in this case that's not the thing. They were biologically sons of Vidur, Shalya, Shakra and Dhaumya as per the theory

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Yudhishtira: citation above

Bheema: I don't have citation for Shalya being partial Vayu, just remember reading it. Him because as Madri's brother, he wouldn't blab that Pandu's son with Pritha was actually his.

Arjuna: Indra is actually title carried by Shakra at the time. I'd assume Pandu wanted an ally.

Twins: also guess work since twins run in families (Dhaumya/Devala), and he was Pritha's cousin and could be trusted not to talk about it.

Not extramarital affairs. Surrogacy.

Niyog could be some early form of artificial insemination. But Shakra was the Indra then na. He wasn't on earth so how he? And was he anywhere referenced as human in Mahabharata