Sita whitewashed by DD in deer scene - Page 5

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Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#41

Originally posted by: kb_always_96


I didn't mention anything about RCM or kamba ramayan or any! And also i didn't say anything about incomplete understanding! And also i didn't say anything about contradicting statement about Valmiki Ramayan & puran! I said one can get clear view and information left in Valmiki Ramayan in other purans!


And to be more even clear Valmiki Ramayan is much of a condensed version! The main one is moola Ramayan given by Lord hayagreeva(vishnu's avtar) to Lord Brahma consisting of one crore verses! He gave a compact version to Sage Narada & who inturn preached Valmiki! And he reduced and formed approx 24,000 slokas! There is many left in between which has been given by sages in purans here and there!



Hayagreeva is the equine rakshasha that Vishnu killed in Matsya avatar: he's not a 'lord' or any such thing. You're coming up w/ more and more bizarre theories w/ each post.


Anyway, Valmiki Ramayan is a contemporaneous account of what happened during Rama's time. All the others are just things put together by people, whether driven by devotion or any other motive

MagadhSundari thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#42

Ughhh... of all the topics on this forum to hit soooo many pages, why did it have to be this one 😆 Was hoping the momentum from the retelecast would spur conversations that are either more substantive or more fun, but since this relatively minor point has already spurred so many posts, what's one more :P My thoughts on a few random things mentioned throughout the thread:


1) The show does NOT eliminate the line about using the deer skin as a prayer mat in some effort to promote a modern notion of goodness. The line is very much there (I know, it makes me--an animal lover--cringe every time!) watch from 31:40 where Ram asks Sita what she'll do if he can't catch the deer alive. Hearing her answer, he doesn't bat an eye so I think the show is pretty comfortable with it: https://youtu.be/oJUhgEYH1-I?t=1900


2) Whether it's the less conservative style of dress in Treta Yug or the acceptance/non-acceptance of animal killings, if we accept that those were the customs of the era, it doesn't make sense to refer to them as character flaws or shades of gray, or to refer to their (nonexistent) non-inclusion as white-washing.


3) I don't think you need to check 10 sources to rationalize what is, from a human perspective, a totally irrational demand. Whether she wanted it as a pet or for its skin is ultimately SUCH a minor point... from a human point of view, there is NO sensible reason to want your husband to go into a forest that's already proven to be demon-infested for the sake of a deer. If you consider her an ordinary woman unaware of her divine identity, you can either believe that it was a moment of childishness/foolishness OR a suspicion that this unnatural looking thing was a demon and a desire to have her husband (a certified demon slayer at this point 😎) investigate further. If you consider her fully aware of her divinity, then it's obviously all part of the plan to accomplish the objective of the incarnation, i.e. kill Ravan and halt the atrocities of demons on earth. Neither of those interpretations is affected in the slightest by her expressed motivation for wanting the deer.


4) To some extent, I agree that Maharishi Valmiki having been a contemporaneous author makes his rendition of events more likely to be closer to the truth. For the descriptions of things like the order in which battles occurred or who participated in them, I'd definitely go with what's in Valmiki Ramayan. However, I DON'T think this applies dialogues (e.g. this deer situation or even Agni Pariksha). Maharishi Valmiki did not physically follow Ram and Sita around like a documentary filmmaker and write down what they said during each incident. You have to either believe it was poetic imagination or divine vision/inspiration/hearing it from a divine source like Maharishi Narad. If you believe it's the latter, that's not a time-bound phenomenon; a poet/saint who lived hundreds or thousands of years later is just as likely to see the events through the vision of devotion/austerity or hear it from a divine visitor as Maharishi Valmiki was at the time. It's either poetic imagination both then and now, and "accuracy" doesn't come into the question, or if you believe in that sort of thing (which I'm open to myself), it's divine vision and contemporaneous authorship offers no advantage. If you accept the concept of divine vision at all, I think it's unfair to dismiss the variations that occur in later versions as mere reflections of cultural change. Might as well stop reciting the Hanuman Chalisa or Ram Raksha Stotra then if they're just the poetry of derivative authors who adapted an existing text for their era.


5) Hayagreev was both the name of a demon & an incarnation of Vishnu in the list of 24 with the head of a horse. In fact, the incarnation version makes up the entire first page of Google results (at minimum, I didn't check any further)... here's the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayagriva

There are many legends like this that call one version or the other more authoritative. I've never heard this Hayagriva one, and I'm pretty sure that avataar came before Ram so don't know how he'd have written a version so that one doesn't make sense to me. @Janaki, I think you once posted back in the day about Ramcharitmanas being a version of Ramayan that Hanuman wrote on stone tablets and destroyed to give the honor of being the adikavi to Valmiki? Something like that? I don't remember. On the flipside, there's plenty of research by historians and literary experts that offers convincing evidence that the Bal Kand and Uttar Kand we have as part of Valmiki Ramayan today are later additions by different authors. Ultimately I think this whole "this is the REAL version and here's why" conversation has very little value except in cases where the events are egregiously at odds with the known characteristics of the characters (e.g. the versions we've discussed in previous forums that have Ram being absurdly cruel during Uttar Kand to the point of physical harm). Safe to say if it feels THAT wrong, it's probably wrong.


Phew... that about does it for my rant, thanks for indulging me! Hope we have more fun/subtantive things to talk about now that this forum exists!

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Posted: 5 years ago
#43

@Lola,

Well said! I think overall, most of the retellings do share more similarities than distinctions from Valmiki Ramayana, so we can always tell when a show deviates a great deal from the epic to something minor (like *cough* showing dinosaurs attacking Sita in the ashok vatika *cough*). Whether Sita wanted the deer as a plaything or prayer mat doesn't really matter, because in the end, they were kshatriyas and sanatana dharma dictated that hunting and eating animal meat was not wrong for the kshatriya varna. If it's something people are uncomfortable, oh well, they can always believe otherwise because distinctions like that don't change the story at all, lol.


I think these distinctions make for an interesting conversation piece, but in the end of the day it's nothing to get riled about.


But yes, the Bala Kanda and Uttara Kanda have been determined by Sanskrit scholars to be tampered with, because certain facts and details are dismissed and deviated within the epic itself! Sita in the ashok vatika tells Hanuman she and Rama lived in Ayodhya for 1 year after marriage but before vanvaas, whereas in Bala Kanda, it says they lived together for 13 years, which makes no sense because if Sita was 18 at the time of vanvaas, as she tells Hanuman, then she'd have to be 5-6 at the time of marriage and child marriage was never a part of sanatana dharma. That came way later during Mughal Era. Also, there are gaps and inconsistencies in the Sanskrit verses that describe Sita's exile and Bhumi pravesh. Sanskrit scholars who studied the epic meticulously themselves said this. There are several details like this that really make us doubt the current validity of these two kandas.


So following the overall story is way better than religiously following every verse and stanza and believing it to be 100% true. If latter adaptations can have inconsistencies and be affected by the society of each era, why wouldn't the original Valmiki Ramayana be tampered with, when it was written 1000s of years ago? The effect of the Mughal kings can be seen in several places of "Valmiki Ramayana".


Give me the original leaves Valmiki muni wrote anyday, and I will follow that religiously, but don't tell me the current translation is 100% accurate. Even a child would say otherwise lol. 😆

731627 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#44

None of Mughal interference in ram charitra manas story . Yes Akbar support ram charitra manas in awadhi language but he didn't not ask tulsi das to change ram charitra manas


Parda pratha was common during Mughal dynasty in Mughal samaj parda pratha was quite common but in ram charitra manas there was no single incident which support parda pratha

And if read holy book of Mughal it was always written from right to left as Urdu is always written from right to left whera ram charitra manas always written from left to right

And if Mughal really intervening ram charitra then ram charitra manas would have written in Urdu instead of awadhi language

But I don't think ram charitra ever written in Urdu so I don't think Mughal interven in ram charitra manas in any way

But yes when tulsi das wrote ram charitra manas in awadhi language it was protested by many Sanskrit scholar and it was Akbar who support ram charitra manas in awadhi language but he did not ask to change ram charitra manas


And also in Mughal dynasty they don't believe in murti pooja but in ram charitra manas there is murti pooja

Abhinaya_Abhi thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#45

Originally posted by: .Vrish.



Hayagreeva is the equine rakshasha that Vishnu killed in Matsya avatar: he's not a 'lord' or any such thing. You're coming up w/ more and more bizarre theories w/ each post.


Anyway, Valmiki Ramayan is a contemporaneous account of what happened during Rama's time. All the others are just things put together by people, whether driven by devotion or any other motive

Rakshas😆 search in google about Lord hayagriva, you will get to know! And I'm not coming up with bizzare theories! You first try to know everything and then comment instead of criticizing others!

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Posted: 5 years ago
#46

Originally posted by: kb_always_96

For your information, i have read it! You cannot just read Valmiki Ramayan alone bcoz some information are present in Vishnu puran & Padma puran too! You will not find all information in Valmiki Ramayan alone! You need to see all purans, only then will get a clear view! And in sanskrit a single word has several meanings, if one goes wrong then entire meaning gets changed! One can confirm the correct meaning only by verifing these purans!

First u say I did not read this incident and then say u read d book. Decide karlo what u want to say😆. U are hell bent on proving lies as right written in kalyug version n proving truth as wrong written in original version. Even Gids can do mistakes. Ram himself did mistakes many times as shown in the show. Same way, Sita did asked deer for mattress which is wrong but was normal then. Also Laxman has not only cut Surpnakha's nose but both ears too which was very wrong. He could have just killed her. If anyone can't accept reality it's fine but don't try to prove it wrong by giving false theories to please oneself and convince oneself ki aisa ho hi nahi sakta.

Edited by angel_juhi04 - 5 years ago
Abhinaya_Abhi thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#47

Originally posted by: angel_juhi04

First u say I did not read this incident and then say u read d book. Decide karlo what u want to say😆. U are hell bent on proving lies as right written in kalyug version n proving truth as wrong written in original version. Even Gids can do mistakes. Ram himself did mistakes many times as shown in the show. Sans way, Sita did asked deer for mattress which is wrong but was normal then. If anyone can't accept reality it's fine but don't try to prove it wrong by giving false theories to please oneself and convince oneself ki aisa ho hi nahi sakta.

First try to understand what I've written in my comments before criticizing! There is no where I've contradicted anything! I've written what I've referred from Valmiki Ramayan and other purans! When no one now have seen Ramayan with our own eyes, how can you say which is right or wrong? And I don't judge actions of God bcoz that is for human betterment on understanding which is right & which is wrong!

731627 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#48

Where is evidence that it shows ram charitra manas is lie . I have not read any where ram charitra manas is lie there is no source that which proove ram charitra manas is lie

From where did get information that ram charitra manas is lie

With out any solid proof just going on prooviing ram charitra manas is lie




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