Messed Up Family! - Page 4

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Where is the place to hide for our safety??? What we have to do to punish these wolves in human clothes?? Why we have to bear with such oppression, suppression, being the mother of this mankind? Bearing these men as a tiny dot in us for a while to give life , to these criminals, what is the main cause behind these new misconceptions regarding women ???

But why should we be the ones to hide always? Why is it that there are curfews on us? Why is the mother accused of a bad upbringing when a man becomes a rapist, a murderer, an abusive husband? Is society not to blame equally? When a movie like Kabir Singh is declared a blockbuster, but movies like Article 15 or Section 375 go by unnoticed, why is only the family blamed? It goes back to society having to change as a whole. Even if a mother (because the blame falls wholely on her so she must be must be the only to imbibe her child with values) raises her child right, bad influences can affect him or her. But if a society as a whole also changes, then who is to be blamed apart from the criminal himself/herself?

Hmn.that question hit me like a thud ! I questioned myself -- why I left myself there far behind from the forward-thinking?? A self-confessed fear maybe.... or age-old cultural backwardness. I was scared for a minute, then started thinking seriously ---

Is it better to run forward towards a beast? You question, you report, you react and you press the press to bring that issue into prominence, but still the crimes against women are happening -- increasing, how sad it is Shreya? After Nirbhaya, I thought that there won't be any such heinous crimes happen, but further increased. When I argued with my father -- a High Court Judge, what police did in Disha case is correct, that is the right thing they have to do to nullify the weariness in police action and loopholes in the judiciary, those are the main causes of this increase in crimes against women. The reaction is always better than inaction. I am not talking about educated, highly placed women , I am talking about hiding regarding the kids at orphan homes, small kids who lured for chocolates mentally retarded persons etc . The chicks have to be protected Shreya until they get wings. But I fully agree with your every point.

After Nirbhaya, even I thought chalo finally something will happen that will take world in the right direction because it was reported on heavily even in our local Canadian news. But no. Nothing changed. You know the bigger issue isn't that these crimes are still prevalent, but rather the mindset towards them. Everyone thinks it's a third-world (emerging, developing) problem. Rape? Not a problem here. Gangrape? Nope. Not in this country. We are civilized people. The thing is this isn't a civilized vs third-world problem. This is a mindset issue. That's something else that needs to change.

What police did in Disha case is actually the right way to deal with these monsters, but now the police are being questioned by the politicians and the court system. Kyun bhai? They gave a lesson to monsters all around the world - it's time for you to change else you will be killed. That case didn't make the local news, but it did spread around via SM and a few people at my work started talking about it. One thing led to another and we all realized that what happened in a "third-world country" like India is actually the right response to this. Movements like #metoo are not enough if law enforcement and politicians are not on our side. With this encounter, police proved that they had reached their boiling point as well.

Ah hiding our kids, physically and mentally disabled people is important. But the issue becomes that where you hide them is also not the best place for them in many cases. Children are molested by their own. Mentally disabled people are raped by the very people who are supposed to care for them. Isn't that also one of the reasons given for killing female babies in places? She'll be raped, abused, meri izaat chali jayegi. So kill them. Best way to hide them. 🤢

A mother has to imbibe good qualities into her child's mind at an early age, a wife has to correct her husband's attitude whenever he drifts from the cultural arena, and the Govt has to curb the wild spread vulgar videos and demeaning women in social media.

Once again, the onus falls on the woman. Raising the child - a woman's job. Fixing the husband - woman's job. Taking care of society's views - woman's job.

Have you heard what the mother of one of the criminals in Disha case to the media? She asked the spokesperson sitting in front of her hut that -- "the culprit who raped a 9 year old girl is roaming on the roads enjoying life, then why the police killed my son , who simply raped a grown-up woman???" At that time I argued with my father -- the judge has to bring that woman to the court to first slap her in front of her son , and then promulgate the verdict -- that must be hanging, not less than that! The Kid influenced by his mother in his formative years, so her words' impact will be immense on his psyche. Of course , the police have to warn her to go inside and sit there shut your door to the world, otherwise, the angry crowd will punish you for your cruel words. Who allowed the media to interview that criminal's mother to announce her opinion?? That is a different angle.

I didn't see that, but I don't even need to see it to believe it. It was the same in Nirbhaya case and in many countless cases that don't make headlines. And it doesn't just happen outside a family, but inside a family too. There's a very famous honour killing case here in Canada, in Montreal. Shafia family murder. It was a huge headline case and possibly the first time many Canadians learnt of "honour killing". In it, the second wife and husband killed the first wife and the three daughters. During the trial it was revealed that the first wife was killed because she wanted to leave the husband and the second wife said to her "you're a slave, you can't leave". I know it's not rape, but it shows what some people's thinking is. If you ever get a chance, read up on the case. It was a big deal and my first ever view into what honour killing is.

Why is it called izzat lutna? Because society has deemed that a woman's honour lies in her vagina. Seriously? What about a man's honour? It lies in his ability to protect his family and keep the women in his family safe. Again it basically lies in his ability to protect the women's vaginas. Why is so much importance given to a woman's vagina? This is an important question that needs to be explored and understood for anything worthwhile to happen.

These are a few quotes from the Vagina Monologues Shreya , see--

“When you rape, beat, maim, mutilate, burn, bury, and terrorize women, you destroy the essential life energy on the planet.”

“The heart is capable of sacrifice. So is the vagina. The heart is able to forgive and repair. It can change its shape to let us in. It can expand to let us out. So can the vagina. It can ache for us and stretch for us, die for us and bleed and bleed us into this difficult, wondrous world. So can the vagina."

“Slowly, it dawned on me that nothing was more important than stopping violence toward women—that the desecration of women indicated the failure of human beings to honor and protect life”

“If overthrowing some five thousand years of patriarchy seems like a big order, just focus on celebrating each self-respect step along the way”

By insulting Draupadi the Kaurava clan satisfied their ego because she was considered as Pandavas honour! A woman was tormented because of a male's perspective, put her at stake like a lifeless thing!

For owning Helen, the battle of Troy was fought! No one bothered about her likes and dislikes! Many instances in past history, still rewriting such stories on new pages even now!

You talked about MBA lessons, in India , in IIMS the first sentence of the prime MBA book is " the first best manager in this world is your mother , respect her learn from her , how to be a multitasker"

A woman's role was praised, honored, and asked for her participation in every field, still the man is misguided by his male ego that he is the higher authority over his wife and daughter. How sad it is ! When...when this world realise our worth??

And that's just it. Women are important. We are the only way to take mankind forward. But why must we be protected? Why can't we protect ourselves? All men have to do is show some respect.

It's not just IIMS. In almost any leadership class in business school, that point is raised, even if it isn't in the book. My first leadership class, our prof asked us "who is your role model leader". People named Obama, Mandela, their old managers (mostly all men), other business leaders (mostly all men), and then one woman from Kenya stood up and said "my mother". The prof only asked her "why". The answer she gave is basically the quote you said in more detail. The prof just said one sentence "thank you and thank her and remember the women in this room, the women at home, the women in the workplace are the true leaders everyday of their life". This coming from a white middle-aged male professor. It silenced the whole class. We don't think of our own mothers as leaders, but it's true. And the fact that it came from a prof who is typically seen as the supreme race made it even more important. It also laid the foundation of our entire leadership class and what we learnt in it. The rest of the semester, he would just end the class with one word "remember". He never needed to finish the sentence. We all knew.

The thing is even if the government manages to curb vulgar videos and these MMSes and what not, people will always find a way around it. There's a reason there's something called the Dark Net. I'm not saying society as a whole can completely get rid of this. Never. But it needs to be improved upon and reduced to the point where any common man walking the street is not watching the next MMS that gets leaked, but rather reporting it.

Very true.But those are the main culprits in this aspect I feel.

A movement against women's oppression started recently as Me Too, and exposed many foxes to give warning to many hares to be aware of them in the future!!

And yet it may have not been enough. The movement has started, but cannot end. Foxes need to continue to be exposed to the point that these foxes think twice and thrice before ever taking advantage of the hares and, in fact, even of each other. Because let's face it. Women face the brunt of it, but the LGBTQ community is not too far behind and even some straight men face it.

Bold-- Yes, at least,at last, it has started, let us hope its impact will be there for some more time on these hidden criminals to prevent them from doing an abusive act , to think twice before committing that crime again as you rightly mentioned.😊

Happy to interact with you and learn a few things from you Shreya.

I'm loving our conversation Madhuri. It's so enlightening for me as well.

Sorry Mitsu91 for taking your thread down this path, but I read one post and it just made me go "yep I need to comment here".

Originally posted by: coolpd93

Honestly speaking...Men believe ‘it’s a Men’s world’...so they always think of women as weak..and if u notice one thing..men always have fondness/feel protective for meek and demure girls... some girls act and have their way with those men and some girls are extremely innocent to understand those men and become a prey to them...

So MJ kinda men need maya to show his place..he s a dragon..a demon..and a handsome disaster

@Bold: This

Originally posted by: Minionite

After Nirbhaya, even I thought chalo finally something will happen that will take world in the right direction because it was reported on heavily even in our local Canadian news. But no. Nothing changed. You know the bigger issue isn't that these crimes are still prevalent, but rather the mindset towards them. Everyone thinks it's a third-world (emerging, developing) problem. Rape? Not a problem here. Gangrape? Nope. Not in this country. We are civilized people. The thing is this isn't a civilized vs third-world problem. This is a mindset issue. That's something else that needs to change.

What police did in Disha case is actually the right way to deal with these monsters, but now the police are being questioned by the politicians and the court system. Kyun bhai? They gave a lesson to monsters all around the world - it's time for you to change else you will be killed. That case didn't make the local news, but it did spread around via SM and a few people at my work started talking about it. One thing led to another and we all realized that what happened in a "third-world country" like India is actually the right response to this. Movements like #metoo are not enough if law enforcement and politicians are not on our side. With this encounter, police proved that they had reached their boiling point as well.

Ah hiding our kids, physically and mentally disabled people is important. But the issue becomes that where you hide them is also not the best place for them in many cases. Children are molested by their own. Mentally disabled people are raped by the very people who are supposed to care for them. Isn't that also one of the reasons given for killing female babies in places? She'll be raped, abused, meri izaat chali jayegi. So kill them. Best way to hide them.

Agree with you, it is a mindset issue, our leaders are such that, 'if you question us, our decisions, we will rape you, we will kill you, they even declare,' we will dig the graves to rape your women' 😲Male dominance is prevalent in third world countries and developing countries like India! Might is right, which makes wrong right!! We can't expect the politicians on normal and common peoples' side, they'd love to support the criminals and goondas to loot the country and help them to escape! I think it better stops talking about politicians , the atmosphere in the country is not conducive to express our views freely.😊

Bold, female foeticide, a few facts are here Shreya--

Eligible Jat boys from Haryana travel 3,000 km across the country to find themselves a bride! With increasingly fewer girls in Haryana, they are seeking brides from as far away as Kerala as the only way to change their single status. The girls have not vanished overnight. Decades of sex determination tests and female foeticide that has acquired genocide proportions are finally catching up with states in India.

Another shocking news is --there have been only two convictions -- a fine of 300 rupees ($5.5) and another fine of 4,000 rupees ($56) -- from over 400 cases lodged under the Pre-conception and Pre-natal Diagnostic Techniques Act at a given period in a particular place!!

Bringing about changes in the demand for sex determination is a long process and has to be tackled through women’s education and empowerment including the right to property. It is a lengthy legal process that takes decades and decades of time, meanwhile, a few more thousand will perish!!😭 Sometime back I've seen that scene in a movie, drowning a newly born baby in a big vessel of milk!! Are we moving towards stone age humans again??? 😲

Have you heard what the mother of one of the criminals in Disha case to the media? She asked the spokesperson sitting in front of her hut that -- "the culprit who raped a 9 year old girl is roaming on the roads enjoying life, then why the police killed my son , who simply raped a grown-up woman???" At that time I argued with my father -- the judge has to bring that woman to the court to first slap her in front of her son , and then promulgate the verdict -- that must be hanging, not less than that! The Kid influenced by his mother in his formative years, so her words' impact will be immense on his psyche. Of course , the police have to warn her to go inside and sit there shut your door to the world, otherwise, the angry crowd will punish you for your cruel words. Who allowed the media to interview that criminal's mother to announce her opinion?? That is a different angle.

I didn't see that, but I don't even need to see it to believe it. It was the same in Nirbhaya case and in many countless cases that don't make headlines. And it doesn't just happen outside a family, but inside a family too. There's a very famous honour killing case here in Canada, in Montreal. Shafia family murder. It was a huge headline case and possibly the first time many Canadians learnt of "honour killing". In it, the second wife and husband killed the first wife and the three daughters. During the trial it was revealed that the first wife was killed because she wanted to leave the husband and the second wife said to her "you're a slave, you can't leave". I know it's not rape, but it shows what some people's thinking is. If you ever get a chance, read up on the case. It was a big deal and my first ever view into what honour killing is.

________

Just now read about that case which you referred here. "Even if they hoist me up onto the gallows, nothing is more dear to me than my honour." The elder Shafia said these words !!

In every nook and corner of the UP state, it happens frequently in the families where males feel women are like cattle to keep them in the safe arena shutting all their wises and desire for freedom ,is their duty! Again recollecting your words, the mindset has to change, someone has to question, there should be a social revolution is necessary, just like Me Too , and Disha case type peoples' movement, vociferous reaction! Here is the link I am sharing to make it easy for the other interested members who want to read it.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/the-shafia-trial-at-a-glance-1.1194933

Originally posted by: Minionite

And that's just it. Women are important. We are the only way to take mankind forward. But why must we be protected? Why can't we protect ourselves? All men have to do is show some respect.

It's not just IIMS. In almost any leadership class in business school, that point is raised, even if it isn't in the book. My first leadership class, our prof asked us "who is your role model leader". People named Obama, Mandela, their old managers (mostly all men), other business leaders (mostly all men), and then one woman from Kenya stood up and said "my mother". The prof only asked her "why". The answer she gave is basically the quote you said in more detail. The prof just said one sentence "thank you and thank her and remember the women in this room, the women at home, the women in the workplace are the true leaders everyday of their life". This coming from a white middle-aged male professor. It silenced the whole class. We don't think of our own mothers as leaders, but it's true. And the fact that it came from a prof who is typically seen as the supreme race made it even more important. It also laid the foundation of our entire leadership class and what we learnt in it. The rest of the semester, he would just end the class with one word "remember". He never needed to finish the sentence. We all knew.

I'm loving our conversation Madhuri. It's so enlightening for me as well.

Sorry Mitsu91 for taking your thread down this path, but I read one post and it just made me go "yep I need to comment here".

Every man has to realize that his existence on earth is because of his mother, a woman! And another important aspect of a male's life is, there won't be any future for his genes if his wife doesn't want to go through all that pregnant rigmarole! Since centuries, leaving that fact aside and doing atrocities on women one after the other, where these males are marching forward? I feel, only towards their annihilation! Without a woman beside you, the mutation will be the only way left to this mankind!

Regarding the character Maya entering into MJ's house as his Bahu, it is a big cultural shock for many, but I took it this way -- what MJ did to her was heinous, weaved a cobweb carefully to deceive her, and later killing her father and brother... presumably, most importantly he killed her baby, who was yet to born at that time! Killing him will be a simple punishment, she wants to crush him in the same manner, what he did to her years back with false love to serve his purpose!

Here again, Sheena Bora's murder case reminds us how cultural beliefs, even in illegal connections will play a vital role in the psyche of the criminals!

Same thing here, Maya wants to pulverize his social status, his relationships with his family members, she wanted to attack him from all sides, and this single deed,i.e, marrying his son did all the work for her, which she wanted to do since a decade!! It shows her inner turmoil, her physical and mental trauma, and what not? Everything she lost because of this cruel MJ who is still believing that his might will work for him. She wanted to crush that Ego and she did it successfully by marrying his son and roaming as his bahu in his mansion!!

So pleased to inform you that this discussion made me aware of so many important issues Shreya.🤗

Got the point Shreya,😊 sorry for diverting the topic from the serial discussion Mitsu91. We must be thankful to you for giving us this opportunity through this thread, to know, to discuss,to interact and to elevate our knowledge because of this.🤗

That sounds quite weird actually. I really hope there are more layers to the past story. It's not like they conspired against Maya to save the kid of the house. If it's only about Maya MJ, why would a wife, a lover, friends get so involved that they would look more like criminals than businessmen ? 🤔

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

In third world countries, when such crimes come out, the voices will be vociferous and loud not only because of the overpopulation, because the affected victims are more and more!

Agree with you, it is a mindset issue, our leaders are such that, 'if you question us, our decisions, we will rape you, we will kill you, they even declare,' we will dig the graves to rape your women' 😲Male dominance is prevalent in third world countries and developing countries like India! Might is right, which makes wrong right!! We can't expect the politicians on normal and common peoples' side, they'd love to support the criminals and goondas to loot the country and help them to escape! I think it better stops talking about politicians , the atmosphere in the country is not conducive to express our views freely.😊

Bold, female foeticide, a few facts are here Shreya--

Eligible Jat boys from Haryana travel 3,000 km across the country to find themselves a bride! With increasingly fewer girls in Haryana, they are seeking brides from as far away as Kerala as the only way to change their single status. The girls have not vanished overnight. Decades of sex determination tests and female foeticide that has acquired genocide proportions are finally catching up with states in India.

Another shocking news is --there have been only two convictions -- a fine of 300 rupees ($5.5) and another fine of 4,000 rupees ($56) -- from over 400 cases lodged under the Pre-conception and Pre-natal Diagnostic Techniques Act at a given period in a particular place!!

Bringing about changes in the demand for sex determination is a long process and has to be tackled through women’s education and empowerment including the right to property. It is a lengthy legal process that takes decades and decades of time, meanwhile, a few more thousand will perish!!😭 Sometime back I've seen that scene in a movie, drowning a newly born baby in a big vessel of milk!! Are we moving towards stone age humans again??? 😲

Just now read about that case which you referred here. "Even if they hoist me up onto the gallows, nothing is more dear to me than my honour." The elder Shafia said these words !!

In every nook and corner of the UP state, it happens frequently in the families where males feel women are like cattle to keep them in the safe arena shutting all their wises and desire for freedom ,is their duty! Again recollecting your words, the mindset has to change, someone has to question, there should be a social revolution is necessary, just like Me Too , and Disha case type peoples' movement, vociferous reaction! Here is the link I am sharing to make it easy for the other interested members who want to read it.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/the-shafia-trial-at-a-glance-1.1194933

Might is right, which makes wrong right!! We can't expect the politicians on normal and common peoples' side, they'd love to support the criminals and goondas to loot the country and help them to escape! I think it better stops talking about politicians , the atmosphere in the country is not conducive to express our views freely.

And why should we not speak of politicians? India and Canada are both democratic countries. We should be allowed to express our displeasure of the political system if we so please. This is our right! Politicians have for too long used their power to curb speech, threaten democracy, and put a fear in people's minds. This has to stop.

Remember in 2016 the Jat reservation agitation? I was in India at that time. A week before my flight out, my grandfather died and Delhi become blocked off for everyone. I was outside Delhi and had to get into Delhi. I bring this up because of what you said "they'd love to support the criminals and goondas". During that period, that's exactly what happened. Common folk like us couldn't go anywhere, move anywhere, do anything. Cars were being burned, women were being raped, and that too in front of their families. My family had wanted me to come with them when we immersed my grandfather's ashes in Ganges, but as soon as this happened, I was told to stay home both because I'm a foreigner and a woman. I would be a "catch" as per my family. It became so bad that I almost had to cancel my flight. And when it was finally over, all the politicians said was "it's their right". Their right? Their right to demand reservations? Their right to rape women as a way of forcing the government to agree? Their right to put a curfew over a whole city? Their right? What right?

Bold, female foeticide, a few facts are here Shreya-- Sometime back I've seen that scene in a movie, drowning a newly born baby in a big vessel of milk!! Are we moving towards stone age humans again???

I saw this same scene in a CP episode once. I know CP episodes are fictionalized quite a bit, but still it goes to show what people are capable of. And, if I'm not mistaken, the movie you are talking about could be Matrabhoomi - A Nation Without Women. It's a hard pressing movie and raises a lot of questions about female infanticide.

I read a post not too long back on FB about progress. It discussed how we are progressing in terms of technology and making lives easier and new scientific breakthroughs but at a very heavy cost. People are more than ever unhappy with their lives. New and never heard of ailments are coming out. People are unsure of what can happen next and are turning more and more inward, blocking out the outside and becoming ignorant.

I then read a book on the same topic. It went even deeper questioning why we consider our ancestors as primitive and ourselves as superior. Our ancestors may not have had the modern tools and industrialization and what not, but they were actually much better than us. It pointed out how women were held at the highest regard. It discussed how even if the average age was 30, those 30 years went by in happiness and love. It went even deeper into comparing the "primitive" with the "superior" and concluded that maybe it was time for us to revisit our roots and question our progress. Maybe we've given the stone age a bad name. Maybe we are moving farther away from the stone age, rather than back to it. I'll see if I can find the book's title. It was a very good read and very eye-opening. Before reading the book I would have agreed with you that maybe we are going back to the Stone Age. But now...now I think we aren't going back to the Stone Age, but moving farther and farther from it. Women were not just tools of conquest in the Stone Age. In fact, in the Stone Age, women were often considered the centre of the family. It wasn't until the Industrialization Era that women became marginalized, so if anything we're going back to that time.

Just now read about that case which you referred here. "Even if they hoist me up onto the gallows, nothing is more dear to me than my honour." The elder Shafia said these words !!

And that is what the elder Shafia said. There was much that the son Shafia said. I don't remember everything now, but he was the youngest child of the family and yet he considered it his duty and obligation to control his sisters. If you ever get a chance watch this 45 minute CBC program. CBC is one of the most highly regarded channels in Canada and The Fifth Estate is a program that does much investigation before releasing anything. This reveals a lot into people's thinking, especially when it comes to "honour".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjhLGiWILgc

Another one is Jassi Sindhu murder case. It's before Shafia trial and the typical "we do not marry within the same caste because you're brother-sister" case. I was much younger at that time, but after Shafia murder case I went on a binge trying to uncover old cases like this and this one came to light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZJitKK1t1Q

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Regarding the character Maya entering into MJ's house as his Bahu, it is a big cultural shock for many, but I took it this way -- what MJ did to her was heinous, weaved a cobweb carefully to deceive her, and later killing her father and brother... presumably, most importantly he killed her baby, who was yet to born at that time! Killing him will be a simple punishment, she wants to crush him in the same manner, what he did to her years back with false love to serve his purpose!

Here again, Sheena Bora's murder case reminds us how cultural beliefs, even in illegal connections will play a vital role in the psyche of the criminals!

Same thing here, Maya wants to pulverize his social status, his relationships with his family members, she wanted to attack him from all sides, and this single deed,i.e, marrying his son did all the work for her, which she wanted to do since a decade!! It shows her inner turmoil, her physical and mental trauma, and what not? Everything she lost because of this cruel MJ who is still believing that his might will work for him. She wanted to crush that Ego and she did it successfully by marrying his son and roaming as his bahu in his mansion!!

So pleased to inform you that this discussion made me aware of so many important issues Shreya.🤗

Got the point Shreya,😊 sorry for diverting the topic from the serial discussion Mitsu91. We must be thankful to you for giving us this opportunity through this thread, to know, to discuss,to interact and to elevate our knowledge because of this.🤗

Actually there's nothing on MJ killing Maya's brother and father yet. All we know is her brother and father are gone. I'm actually quite curious to know how they were involved in all this, if they were.

Maya doesn't just want to pulverize his social status, she wants to do tit-for-tat. From yesterday's episode, if there's one thing I picked up, it's that she played the same game with Rishi and Rudra that MJ had played with her. But now let's see how she takes it forward.

No Madhuri, I was just apologizing to Mitsu91 because we have brought so much important discussions to her topic, but we forgot to talk about the show. I'm actually loving this discussion with you. 🤗

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

In third world countries, when such crimes come out, the voices will be vociferous and loud not only because of the overpopulation, because the affected victims are more and more!

Agree with you, it is a mindset issue, our leaders are such that, 'if you question us, our decisions, we will rape you, we will kill you, they even declare,' we will dig the graves to rape your women' 😲Male dominance is prevalent in third world countries and developing countries like India! Might is right, which makes wrong right!! We can't expect the politicians on normal and common peoples' side, they'd love to support the criminals and goondas to loot the country and help them to escape! I think it better stops talking about politicians , the atmosphere in the country is not conducive to express our views freely.😊

Bold, female foeticide, a few facts are here Shreya--

Eligible Jat boys from Haryana travel 3,000 km across the country to find themselves a bride! With increasingly fewer girls in Haryana, they are seeking brides from as far away as Kerala as the only way to change their single status. The girls have not vanished overnight. Decades of sex determination tests and female foeticide that has acquired genocide proportions are finally catching up with states in India.

Another shocking news is --there have been only two convictions -- a fine of 300 rupees ($5.5) and another fine of 4,000 rupees ($56) -- from over 400 cases lodged under the Pre-conception and Pre-natal Diagnostic Techniques Act at a given period in a particular place!!

Bringing about changes in the demand for sex determination is a long process and has to be tackled through women’s education and empowerment including the right to property. It is a lengthy legal process that takes decades and decades of time, meanwhile, a few more thousand will perish!!😭 Sometime back I've seen that scene in a movie, drowning a newly born baby in a big vessel of milk!! Are we moving towards stone age humans again??? 😲

Have you heard what the mother of one of the criminals in Disha case to the media? She asked the spokesperson sitting in front of her hut that -- "the culprit who raped a 9 year old girl is roaming on the roads enjoying life, then why the police killed my son , who simply raped a grown-up woman???" At that time I argued with my father -- the judge has to bring that woman to the court to first slap her in front of her son , and then promulgate the verdict -- that must be hanging, not less than that! The Kid influenced by his mother in his formative years, so her words' impact will be immense on his psyche. Of course , the police have to warn her to go inside and sit there shut your door to the world, otherwise, the angry crowd will punish you for your cruel words. Who allowed the media to interview that criminal's mother to announce her opinion?? That is a different angle.

I didn't see that, but I don't even need to see it to believe it. It was the same in Nirbhaya case and in many countless cases that don't make headlines. And it doesn't just happen outside a family, but inside a family too. There's a very famous honour killing case here in Canada, in Montreal. Shafia family murder. It was a huge headline case and possibly the first time many Canadians learnt of "honour killing". In it, the second wife and husband killed the first wife and the three daughters. During the trial it was revealed that the first wife was killed because she wanted to leave the husband and the second wife said to her "you're a slave, you can't leave". I know it's not rape, but it shows what some people's thinking is. If you ever get a chance, read up on the case. It was a big deal and my first ever view into what honour killing is.

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Just now read about that case which you referred here. "Even if they hoist me up onto the gallows, nothing is more dear to me than my honour." The elder Shafia said these words !!

In every nook and corner of the UP state, it happens frequently in the families where males feel women are like cattle to keep them in the safe arena shutting all their wises and desire for freedom ,is their duty! Again recollecting your words, the mindset has to change, someone has to question, there should be a social revolution is necessary, just like Me Too , and Disha case type peoples' movement, vociferous reaction! Here is the link I am sharing to make it easy for the other interested members who want to read it.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/the-shafia-trial-at-a-glance-1.1194933

I came to this thread after few days only to discover a very important topic is being talked about

First i want to take the issue of Nirbhaya case. Despite all laws still men are not getting scared to target women on roads. Why is that there? Thats because they have no fear of law. They have seen cases going on for 30-40 years, rapists getting bail and marrying. That man who killed Jesica lal got married while on bail and had kids. Can you believe it? But thats true. So how come a man doing such a henious crime is marrying and having kids. Who is that girl who has married such a man in first place? OK she must have no say in that marriage parents must have ordered her to marry. The whole truth is if you are rich and have power parents are ok if its a murderer or rapist they will marry their daughters off. Look at priyadarshini matto case again accused married after murder when he was on bail from jail. I cannot think any parent can marry their daughters to murderer and rapists. But that sadly happens. Everyone is seeing people are enjoying life after raping etc so why they will fear law.

That reminds me of a story i was reading in some book on justice. Emperor Jehangir was once appointed governor of a place that was notorious for rapes and murders etc. That time he was a prince not emperor. One day a 13-14 year old girl was getting water for her house(shes married) and a rich brat son whose notorious in town kidnapped her on way and than raped her. Next day he leaves her she goes to husband house, they refuse to take her in. By than all know shes carried off by that rich mans son(his father is courtier or something in court). She goes to parents house parents shut door on her face. She goes to well to die but is scared shes small 13 years just married few months back. She decides to go to that local durbar and complaint to governor(prince salim). Soldiers do not allow inside so she sits full day and night outside. Next day Prince Salim going out in early morningto swim in nearby river, she runs to him although soldiers do not allow she shouts and luckily he hears. She goes and tells him what happened and to give her justice. Prince Salim gets her to court and soldiers get that courtiers son to court. Prince Salim declares that man should be flayed alive in center of city and all should watch it in public. Courtier protests saying i am mughal, i have been in service of Akbar for long etc but Salim does not listen. That year no one rapes in that city and province because the story spreads like wild fire and all scared to touch women after that. I think this kind of punishment exemplary that scares wits out of future criminals must be provided that too even if the ppl are rich and powerful. That will send a message.

Second reason is the way men are brought up in family. Right from birth there is a difference in how boys are brought up than girls. Boys can be out with friends till late night but girls have to return by 9pm home. Even hostels and PGs have that rule for girls usually. Why is that there?

There are so many issues one ost or thread cannot resolve this issue. Cities are changing, some families are giving importance to daughters education like a sons. Of course that depends on affaordability. If a parent can afford one persons education its usually the sons and not daughters that they spend lakhs and crores on. Thats of course changing in cities but still very low percentage. It may take centuries to change that mindset. It will not happen in 10 years or even 30 years from now. Also south india is more liberal and treats daughters better than a west or north india. There are lots of difference in ways girls are treated in diff parts of india only. Like in north you cannot go out alone after 7pm and wear very short dress and roam around alone or girls will be in trouble. But in many parts of south india girls go out alone wearing short dresses even at 9pm and no one shall misbehave with them.

I read recently in dubai(UAE) , the king had to stay with a young girl alone on road waiting for her dad for her safety. First its great a king is so bothered about his citizen a kid. That will never happen in india, there will be accident and representatives will pass by in their cars. Second dubai has very strict laws but a kid is unsafe on roads alone. All this will need mindset change. It will require centuries to change.

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

It is endearing to read about your first leadership class lesson you learn about mother.🤗 Some incidents have such a powerful impact on our psyche, that's why such treasured memories will walk with us throughout our life's journey. 😊

Every man has to realize that his existence on earth is because of his mother, a woman! And another important aspect of a male's life is, there won't be any future for his genes if his wife doesn't want to go through all that pregnant rigmarole! Since centuries, leaving that fact aside and doing atrocities on women one after the other, where these males are marching forward? I feel, only towards their annihilation! Without a woman beside you, the mutation will be the only way left to this mankind!

Regarding the character Maya entering into MJ's house as his Bahu, it is a big cultural shock for many, but I took it this way -- what MJ did to her was heinous, weaved a cobweb carefully to deceive her, and later killing her father and brother... presumably, most importantly he killed her baby, who was yet to born at that time! Killing him will be a simple punishment, she wants to crush him in the same manner, what he did to her years back with false love to serve his purpose!

Here again, Sheena Bora's murder case reminds us how cultural beliefs, even in illegal connections will play a vital role in the psyche of the criminals!

Same thing here, Maya wants to pulverize his social status, his relationships with his family members, she wanted to attack him from all sides, and this single deed,i.e, marrying his son did all the work for her, which she wanted to do since a decade!! It shows her inner turmoil, her physical and mental trauma, and what not? Everything she lost because of this cruel MJ who is still believing that his might will work for him. She wanted to crush that Ego and she did it successfully by marrying his son and roaming as his bahu in his mansion!!

So pleased to inform you that this discussion made me aware of so many important issues Shreya.🤗

Got the point Shreya,😊 sorry for diverting the topic from the serial discussion Mitsu91. We must be thankful to you for giving us this opportunity through this thread, to know, to discuss,to interact and to elevate our knowledge because of this.🤗

I am glad that my post kick started this really crucial discussion. Gender inequality and unjust & unfair treatment of women is a global issue and the smallest of efforts to bring light to these issues is a step in the right direction. Thank you to all the lovely ladies for being avid participants in the discussion. 🤗

Originally posted by: Minionite

Might is right, which makes wrong right!! We can't expect the politicians on normal and common peoples' side, they'd love to support the criminals and goondas to loot the country and help them to escape! I think it better stops talking about politicians , the atmosphere in the country is not conducive to express our views freely.

And why should we not speak of politicians? India and Canada are both democratic countries. We should be allowed to express our displeasure of the political system if we so please. This is our right! Politicians have for too long used their power to curb speech, threaten democracy, and put a fear in people's minds. This has to stop.

Remember in 2016 the Jat reservation agitation? I was in India at that time. A week before my flight out, my grandfather died and Delhi become blocked off for everyone. I was outside Delhi and had to get into Delhi. I bring this up because of what you said "they'd love to support the criminals and goondas". During that period, that's exactly what happened. Common folk like us couldn't go anywhere, move anywhere, do anything. Cars were being burned, women were being raped, and that too in front of their families. My family had wanted me to come with them when we immersed my grandfather's ashes in Ganges, but as soon as this happened, I was told to stay home both because I'm a foreigner and a woman. I would be a "catch" as per my family. It became so bad that I almost had to cancel my flight. And when it was finally over, all the politicians said was "it's their right". Their right? Their right to demand reservations? Their right to rape women as a way of forcing the government to agree? Their right to put a curfew over a whole city? Their right? What right?

Bold, female foeticide, a few facts are here Shreya-- Sometime back I've seen that scene in a movie, drowning a newly born baby in a big vessel of milk!! Are we moving towards stone age humans again???

I saw this same scene in a CP episode once. I know CP episodes are fictionalized quite a bit, but still it goes to show what people are capable of. And, if I'm not mistaken, the movie you are talking about could be Matrabhoomi - A Nation Without Women. It's a hard pressing movie and raises a lot of questions about female infanticide.

I read a post not too long back on FB about progress. It discussed how we are progressing in terms of technology and making lives easier and new scientific breakthroughs but at a very heavy cost. People are more than ever unhappy with their lives. New and never heard of ailments are coming out. People are unsure of what can happen next and are turning more and more inward, blocking out the outside and becoming ignorant.

I then read a book on the same topic. It went even deeper questioning why we consider our ancestors as primitive and ourselves as superior. Our ancestors may not have had the modern tools and industrialization and what not, but they were actually much better than us. It pointed out how women were held at the highest regard. It discussed how even if the average age was 30, those 30 years went by in happiness and love. It went even deeper into comparing the "primitive" with the "superior" and concluded that maybe it was time for us to revisit our roots and question our progress. Maybe we've given the stone age a bad name. Maybe we are moving farther away from the stone age, rather than back to it. I'll see if I can find the book's title. It was a very good read and very eye-opening. Before reading the book I would have agreed with you that maybe we are going back to the Stone Age. But now...now I think we aren't going back to the Stone Age, but moving farther and farther from it. Women were not just tools of conquest in the Stone Age. In fact, in the Stone Age, women were often considered the centre of the family. It wasn't until the Industrialization Era that women became marginalized, so if anything we're going back to that time.

Just now read about that case which you referred here. "Even if they hoist me up onto the gallows, nothing is more dear to me than my honour." The elder Shafia said these words !!

And that is what the elder Shafia said. There was much that the son Shafia said. I don't remember everything now, but he was the youngest child of the family and yet he considered it his duty and obligation to control his sisters. If you ever get a chance watch this 45 minute CBC program. CBC is one of the most highly regarded channels in Canada and The Fifth Estate is a program that does much investigation before releasing anything. This reveals a lot into people's thinking, especially when it comes to "honour".

Another one is Jassi Sindhu murder case. It's before Shafia trial and the typical "we do not marry within the same caste because you're brother-sister" case. I was much younger at that time, but after Shafia murder case I went on a binge trying to uncover old cases like this and this one came to light.

This news item gained prominence in all national and regional language newspapers today!!

Mumbai taxi driver takes a poet to the police station for the phone call on protests!!!

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/mumbai/poets-taxi-ride-ends-at-mumbai-police-station/article30756191.ece

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Definitely I will watch these videos you posted here.🤗 There is no freedom for a girl child.

That movie which I referred to showing the female infanticide is 'Lajja" one of the very good movies on women empowerment. You can see it on net.

Bold-- animal instinct is still prevalent in humans after all this so-called development in all aspects of our life. Man is becoming a predator, now they are trying to eliminate the shreds of evidence, in that process implementing cruel ways!😭

Surprisingly sinners are more spiritual now😲visiting temples after the crime as if God will cleanse his crime with a small offering! As someone mentioned in this thread, Arab countries like punishment is necessary to make them ...... to unfit them to do that crime again. It sounds cruel, but there must be a solution. Painful to think about this issue for two days, then just imagine, how horrendous those experiences to those innocent girls? Have to come back to the same solution, the mindset has to be changed.