If Bajaj is a villain, so is Anurag - Page 4

Originally posted by: SheAish

Look its the comparison that is being refuted by most as far as I can see.

Anu displaying one vice against someone who had been after him and then married his fiance on the day he was supposed to marry the said fiancee does not make Bajaj a good guy by any means and puts on the same scale as Bajaj as of now. So Anu thinking the worst of Bajaj without even knowing Bajaj withholding that CCTV footage to trap him for murder charges or using that evidence to trap Pre in marriage to him need not be taken into account for Anu to think Bajaj is a bad guy.

And a white character being given a vice like wrath to mix up with the rest of his character traits which are on the heroic side does not make him a villain by any means. If you will the simple good average guy we know in real life is actually grey in terms of characterization, because we all fall prey to one of the seven deadly sins sometimes but the difference is not letting those sins consume us which makes one a danger to random people out there.

Bajaj is currently on such a trend and it looks like they have added clinical psychosis to his characterization. His most basic traits shown so far are that of grandiosity (having god complex), immense pride, abuse of power, feeling pleasure at causing harm to others (the famous "badnami mey nashey hey" and all that jazz till now) and now actually trying to kill Anu....all these are not simply grey...All these are traits used by writers to bring out the different categories of villains...namely evil villains, insane villains and to some extent envious villains because he showed envy towards Anu having a good childhood and having a loving family and a love like Pre. The only think they haven't shown with Bajaj so far is the trait of an ethical villain where such characters follow ethics and duty to the detriment of others like religious fanatics and organized institutions like army and such.....

Thus, IMO there is a huge generalization if we say Anu and Bajaj both are villians. The proof is in the pudding if only one would look at the details.

Regarding organised groups, if I speak on that, I'd take it too far so I will refrain.

Secondly, this is a matter of perception. In general, I am not a great fan of good characters coz too much goodness nauseates me, in general. I am always a fan of those characters who aren't the good people. Whether they are movies, shows, epics, anything. Coz I believe goodness is overglorified. They are good coz they don't break rules, they are on the side of the right, they are supposed to do everything right. If they don't, then in my opinion, they can't be on that side. And most of the times, no one in my opinion deserves to be on that side coz it is TOO hard to be there, follow the rules, ethics and still be good. People falter along the way, they have their justifications to falter. One way is, when the opposite side breaks rules, you use your rule-bound behaviour and continue to be that way. That makes you good.

The second way, is, when the other person breaks rules, you also break the rules. I won't say they are wrong. They can. But their goodness ceases then. Even if their purpose and aim is for the greater good. In your opinion, you can justify Anurag's actions saying it's natural coz he's been unfairly treated. True. But, in my opinion, one who continues to remain good even during crisis is the one who's truly good! It's easy to be the good guy when everything's going well, really difficult to be the same good guy when nothing's going your way. Where Anurag stands here, is for you to judge. I have formed my own opinions and I like Anurag too. Though, I do feel sad that the only reason I ever liked Anurag and only Anurag last year (in a show that was uninteresting to me), that in the era of angry, young men who are emotionally distant, he was the one guy who was totally different on ITV. I don't see that guy here now. He has his reasons. But that guy is gone. He's gone the day he said he'd break rules to beat a guy who fought with no rules at all! Again, just my opinion. And you can still say whatever you say about Bajaj, I am not gonna to justify him coz I loved the way he behaved, even if it was borderline psychotic. And I am too biased about Bajaj and KSG to neutrally justify them. But be assured, I am unbiased about Anurag, coz neither am I in love with the actor or the character but appreciate both as a critical Audience.

I think we’re all trying to make sense of the character that’s presented in front of us. Since the characters have been so inconsistent, it’s hard to analyze them fully. I think no person checks the “villain” and “hero” perfectly because everyone is imperfect. Just because Anurag is presented as the positive lead doesn’t mean that he won’t make mistakes. He should be allowed to make mistakes too. He shouldn’t be put on this high pedestal of what an ITV male lead has been and the moment he slips up and acts douchey, he’s called the worst names. Normal people, people who want to do good have made mistakes and instead of berating them, we should try to understand where they are coming from. Anurag’s dad is sick. He understood the essence of Anurag, he would have wholeheartedly supported Prerna, he wouldn’t have let Bajaj get into their house. And Prerna is also gone from his life, married a guy that he quite hated, and started living in his own house. Who wouldn’t go mad with situation like this. No wonder he was acting suicidal. Honestly I’d argue, a part of him probably jumped in front of the car to kill himself rather than frame Bajaj.

Similarly, bajaj, for whatever his faults, has some good qualities in him. I mean I honestly don’t think he’s as complex people are trying to make. But because he’s human, there are layers. And I’m soooo glad that we’re shown his layers now instead of the constant allusion to the mystery. Now I can say, he has a past that he’s trying to run away from. Now he has a past that’s made him so scared to lose his daughter that he married some random woman that his daughter responded to. I think he’s a sociopath but there are some people that bring him to feel real emotions. With everyone else he pretends, with Kuki he doesn’t. Now with Prerna, he’s started to feel real emotions as well instead of just pretending to have feelings. It’s going to be interesting to watch him.

In conclusion, heroes and villains are terms used to make sense of the world. People have experiences that made them the way they are. We can say that Anurag shouldn’t act obsessive and suicidal but in his perspective, he’s been really hurt and that’s the way he expresses his frustration. We can say Bajaj shouldn’t manipulate (read: blackmail) people into marrying him and try to murder their ex, but like who are we to judge???

It was the EX plan to get RB trapped in a wrong case. RB is not a novice he saw the situation and grabbed it. When EX planned to get hit , he hit him to fulfill his purpose.

Its time a grey character is accepted on ITV. There is no "white washing" but a good guy, mr.perfect got into wrong lane intentionally wanting to lock horns with bull. But unfortunately its not some wild bull but the king of the jungle itself. U get into his territory. He lets u play for his entertainment until its tym for the hunt

Originally posted by: najma123

To be honest, I only speak for myself here, and no one else. I have no issues if Bajaj is termed as a villain. 😆 I am here for KSG alone, coz otherwise this story never, not once appealed to me. I'll watch him do anything IF his presence and characterisation is justified. I am not terming him as the villain, coz I don't think he is. You are entitled to your views. Who's a villain and who's a hero would be decided with time, and based on EK. From A's shoes, P should be a villain too, coz she was the one who ditched him at the altar for whatever cause. She did. Unless she was chained to do so, she was free to run! From P's shoes, I'd say Veena is a villain coz she cursed that her daughter remain unhappy or something. But I am not stepping into any of their shoes.

Regarding organised groups, if I speak on that, I'd take it too far so I will refrain.

Secondly, this is a matter of perception. In general, I am not a great fan of good characters coz too much goodness nauseates me, in general. I am always a fan of those characters who aren't the good people. Whether they are movies, shows, epics, anything. Coz I believe goodness is overglorified. They are good coz they don't break rules, they are on the side of the right, they are supposed to do everything right. If they don't, then in my opinion, they can't be on that side. And most of the times, no one in my opinion deserves to be on that side coz it is TOO hard to be there, follow the rules, ethics and still be good. People falter along the way, they have their justifications to falter. One way is, when the opposite side breaks rules, you use your rule-bound behaviour and continue to be that way. That makes you good.

The second way, is, when the other person breaks rules, you also break the rules. I won't say they are wrong. They can. But their goodness ceases then. Even if their purpose and aim is for the greater good. In your opinion, you can justify Anurag's actions saying it's natural coz he's been unfairly treated. True. But, in my opinion, one who continues to remain good even during crisis is the one who's truly good! It's easy to be the good guy when everything's going well, really difficult to be the same good guy when nothing's going your way. Where Anurag stands here, is for you to judge. I have formed my own opinions and I like Anurag too. Though, I do feel sad that the only reason I ever liked Anurag and only Anurag last year (in a show that was uninteresting to me), that in the era of angry, young men who are emotionally distant, he was the one guy who was totally different on ITV. I don't see that guy here now. He has his reasons. But that guy is gone. He's gone the day he said he'd break rules to beat a guy who fought with no rules at all! Again, just my opinion. And you can still say whatever you say about Bajaj, I am not gonna to justify him coz I loved the way he behaved, even if it was borderline psychotic. And I am too biased about Bajaj and KSG to neutrally justify them. But be assured, I am unbiased about Anurag, coz neither am I in love with the actor or the character but appreciate both as a critical Audience.

I'm aware you voice out your bias towards grey heros and KSG all the time and I appreciate your honesty every time. And you also try not to justify Bajaj's actions but just appreciate how it looks onscreen since you like to watch such characters.

Its just that the definition of grey hero's have really been pushing the boundary in ITV and even in movies these days. Its not showing evil and criminal behavior that I am against. Its the glorification of these actions and the tendency to let these actions go without effective consequences that I am against.

By definition among writers and in literature, a grey hero is not someone committing crimes and going against basic morals set by the society and basic human rights for their own selfish wants and needs. Its more used to describe a good ethical person who have their principles in the right place but may break rules and may go to the very extremes of even killing someone for the greater good or the bigger picture with regards to the society and humanity. Like killing a suspected suicide bomber on sight even though later he might find out the guy was innocent or forced to go through it by some other criminal person. Or in the case where a psychotic character like Maya maybe killed by someone who knows that she could get out of any institution again if just handed over to the authorities and will again result in more deaths and destruction of innocents.

Its basically a trope used by writers to untie the hands of an otherwise good ethical character to go against the set rules to defeat evil by any means necessary. Thats it.

This is why there is such confusion with heros having basic human vices once in a while being termed as grey and villains as grey at the same time. As long as human vices don't consume your character and become a danger for random people around you it doesn't make one a "grey" hero nor villain. Anurag as such does not fall in any of these two categories. He is just the average hero.

Originally posted by: SheAish

I'm aware you voice out your bias towards grey heros and KSG all the time and I appreciate your honesty every time. And you also try not to justify Bajaj's actions but just appreciate how it looks onscreen since you like to watch such characters.

Thanks. Lol. Nothing else to say. 🤗

Its just that the definition of grey hero's have really been pushing the boundary in ITV and even in movies these days. Its not showing evil and criminal behavior that I am against. Its the glorification of these actions and the tendency to let these actions go without effective consequences that I am against.

By definition among writers and in literature, a grey hero is not someone committing crimes and going against basic morals set by the society and basic human rights for their own selfish wants and needs. Its more used to describe a good ethical person who have their principles in the right place but may break rules and may go to the very extremes of even killing someone for the greater good or the bigger picture with regards to the society and humanity. Like killing a suspected suicide bomber on sight even though later he might find out the guy was innocent or forced to go through it by some other criminal person. Or in the case where a psychotic character like Maya maybe killed by someone who knows that she could get out of any institution again if just handed over to the authorities and will again result in more deaths and destruction of innocents.

Its basically a trope used by writers to untie the hands of an otherwise good ethical character to go against the set rules to defeat evil by any means necessary. Thats it.

This is why there is such confusion with heros having basic human vices once in a while being termed as grey and villains as grey at the same time. As long as human vices don't consume your character and become a danger for random people around you it doesn't make one a "grey" hero nor villain. Anurag as such does not fall in any of these two categories. He is just the average hero.

Let me know if you have watched the movie, we can probably discuss that and some more at some other appropriate place. We may have other interesting stuff to discuss. And as you said, grey is someone who isn't reluctant to cross the line if he believes it's for the good. Suits is another example. Watched it? PM me if you wanna continue on this. ;))

Originally posted by: SheAish

I'm aware you voice out your bias towards grey heros and KSG all the time and I appreciate your honesty every time. And you also try not to justify Bajaj's actions but just appreciate how it looks onscreen since you like to watch such characters.

Its just that the definition of grey hero's have really been pushing the boundary in ITV and even in movies these days. Its not showing evil and criminal behavior that I am against. Its the glorification of these actions and the tendency to let these actions go without effective consequences that I am against.

By definition among writers and in literature, a grey hero is not someone committing crimes and going against basic morals set by the society and basic human rights for their own selfish wants and needs. Its more used to describe a good ethical person who have their principles in the right place but may break rules and may go to the very extremes of even killing someone for the greater good or the bigger picture with regards to the society and humanity. Like killing a suspected suicide bomber on sight even though later he might find out the guy was innocent or forced to go through it by some other criminal person. Or in the case where a psychotic character like Maya maybe killed by someone who knows that she could get out of any institution again if just handed over to the authorities and will again result in more deaths and destruction of innocents.

Its basically a trope used by writers to untie the hands of an otherwise good ethical character to go against the set rules to defeat evil by any means necessary. Thats it.

This is why there is such confusion with heros having basic human vices once in a while being termed as grey and villains as grey at the same time. As long as human vices don't consume your character and become a danger for random people around you it doesn't make one a "grey" hero nor villain. Anurag as such does not fall in any of these two categories. He is just the average hero.

Perfectly worded.

Why do we have to categorize them as hero or villain in the first place ? What were naveen and komo? Why can't they be passed on as gray with a dark past? Lol

Anurag is an average character not even a hero. Bajaj is not even there ..he is not established currently to draw his character sketch. Hero of the story is the one who can make you believe in him and still love him even if he is morally or ethically wrong..there is still a motivation behind it which can be argued upon ..because there is nothing like right and wrong ..it's not defined. So who does the right thing and who does the wrong thing is an endless debate.

I can see bajaj as the hero and fathrr of kuki and prernas husband only if yesterday's drama is nautanki and he is trying to trap anurag again in his words. I will.be highly impressed then ....but that won't change the fact that he tried to kill anurag ..was that a fake or not? Anurag tried to frame him in attempt to murder case ..both their actions were sick . But wanting to kill someone just because he is a threat to the happy family? where is his trust in prerna then if he is so insecure about anurag? Anurag tapkofied with the deal In his happy family..in prernas heart and now kuki's...just deal with it Mr bajaj just as anurag should deal with the heartbreak.

Originally posted by: najma123

I understand where you are coming from. To be honest, ITV is still too primitive to show complexities in ideals and values and the differences between grey, black and white. When you mentioned this, your ideas and your thoughts about the definitions, reminded me of Christopher Nolan's ideas and I think he best portrayed good, bad and grey in The Dark Knight. (Am I not supposed to quote this? In my defence, I am NOT relating KZK to the movie never will I do that. I am relating the ideas of grey, bad and good and portrayals of good vs evil that the above member has mentioned which go way beyond EK, KZK and ITV in totality, that's why the reference).

Let me know if you have watched the movie, we can probably discuss that and some more at some other appropriate place. We may have other interesting stuff to discuss. And as you said, grey is someone who isn't reluctant to cross the line if he believes it's for the good. Suits is another example. Watched it? PM me if you wanna continue on this. ;))

Hey, thanks for the invite. Sorry I couldn't respond earlier. Its just that I am the typical TRP aunty and hardly get the time. These days I'm having a bit more time so a little more involved in the forum but generally I am a silent member of the forum and started because I was interested to see how Parth fares in this show and got hooked to the forum. I have been just a silent member from the beginning and then just recently binge watched the show.

I'll maybe take up on your offer later if I get the time. I'm more a literature buff and even in college I took up creative writing and literature because it has always been a passion of mine though not my major at all.

Thanks for the discussion.

Originally posted by: _charu_

Perfectly worded.

Why do we have to categorize them as hero or villain in the first place ? What were naveen and komo? Why can't they be passed on as gray with a dark past? Lol

Anurag is an average character not even a hero. Bajaj is not even there ..he is not established currently to draw his character sketch. Hero of the story is the one who can make you believe in him and still love him even if he is morally or ethically wrong..there is still a motivation behind it which can be argued upon ..because there is nothing like right and wrong ..it's not defined. So who does the right thing and who does the wrong thing is an endless debate.

I can see bajaj as the hero and fathrr of kuki and prernas husband only if yesterday's drama is nautanki and he is trying to trap anurag again in his words. I will.be highly impressed then ....but that won't change the fact that he tried to kill anurag ..was that a fake or not? Anurag tried to frame him in attempt to murder case ..both their actions were sick . But wanting to kill someone just because he is a threat to the happy family? where is his trust in prerna then if he is so insecure about anurag? Anurag tapkofied with the deal In his happy family..in prernas heart and now kuki's...just deal with it Mr bajaj just as anurag should deal with the heartbreak.

Yup Bajaj is not established as a character yet fully. They have been kind of dabling with him so far to see where they want to go with him. Anurags character has already been fleshed out fully, now they will just tweak it anyway they want based on tracks. But I would say that (his character arc may not be that of a hero) but he is the hero of the show for now...and that is established.

I don't know how things woud pan out but lets see where Anurag takes us....Right now as things are going I am very confident his status as the "hero" of the show is still intact.

Today was a good day for Anu. Though I'm sure he is going to suffer at the hands of Bajaj some more, but loyalty and sympathy of the audience is being generated towards Anu as of now...They seem to have got a clear sense of direction for now.

Maybe, they will make a popat out of me for saying this but after all we are all used to these Cvs, so no major expectations or disappointments for me as of now.