Radical Notion?

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totalmess

@totalmess

Dazzler

Posted: 9 years ago

"...the radical notion that women are people."

Feminism gets a bad wrap, perhaps because the word itself is inadequate in communicating what it really means. Equality might be a better way to put it, because all that feminism really is, is fundamental belief that everybody should be treated equally, regardless of their gender. Yes the word has issues, but the principle does not! The phrases 'mommy issues' and 'feminazi' are always floating about but non-discrimination on the basis of gender is a sound principle in my book.

It is no secret that TV, especially Hindi TV has a problem with depicting equality. The quintessential story in the Hindi tele world is that two people get married- either arranged or love- and then comes the real story; Saas Bahu fights. Add some eye locks and dramatic music, mix it all up and there's your dream 8pm show! The world that we are shown is one far removed from the reality of the modern family and the modern woman. It is very rare that we see anything even remotely tangible and when we do, it is always to do with a career. As if having a career goal but still being submissive at home is where we can draw the line for women. This is where JNDSD is different.

The realism and subtlety with which this show blurred stereotypical norms was, and still is, one if it's greatest assets. In fact, the key concept of the show initially was that Vividha stops being who she was taught to be by her family and society, and starts being who she really is! The idea of empowerment and independence being given to a female lead by a male hero' is still incredibly forward thinking in the TV world. How beautiful a concept that his love is so unconditional that he doesn't want to make her what the world wants her to be, but wants her to be what she is. We may have lost a certain charm that this show holds along the way but the one thing that has come out relatively unscathed is the idea of choice. For, do we really possess anything without choice? The unfaltering ability to shout proudly to a unforgiving world what you want is inexplicably difficult. But Vividha did, and continues to do so.

Her exercising that choice today, for me, brought the show full circle. It reminded me that the ideas of growth and freedom and love are the founding pillars of the show. As much as you can alter the appearance, the foundations remain intact.

*Sorry if you felt compelled to put your hand up to my gyaan whilst reading this. 😆 Please share your lovely thoughts!*

Edited by -Alishah- - 9 years ago

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933191

Hibernated

Posted: 9 years ago

Beautiful post Alishah I have nothing to add! Vividha is exercising her choice and she even questioned everyone around her why they were having a problem with the choice that she was making for herself? The irony in this situation was that the man who taught her the importance of choice was the one trying to taking it away from her!

I also loved what she told in the precap, that she would do Atharv's share of phere's as well! After all theirs was relationship between two equals where neither was superior or inferior! Again this is another irony in this situation because of how contradictory Atharv is being at the moment. They took the same Vachans but they are interpreting it in different ways!

Edited by FortunaMajor - 9 years ago

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whispa

@whispa

Sparkler

+ 2

Posted: 9 years ago

You write so well Alishah! Beautiful post.

I think when I started watching this show and was told in the promos that it was about women empowerment, I was a little sceptical because having seen so many hindi shows, you kind of know what to expect.

However, this show has amazed me! Especially phase one. I loved the way how Vividha was slowly changed by Atharv's thinking and then his love. For Vividha, her father and family were everything so for her to go against their teachings and follow her own heart and mind was a big deal.

Again, when she got forcibly married to a nice guy, you always had that fear that the show will go the typical route of her falling for her husband but thankfully they didn't. Atharv's love still empowered her to the point that she would rather live as a widow then anyone else's wife.

And today again, she went against society and chose to do something she wanted despite evryone telling her she was wrong. She proved that Atharv's ideals and thoughts were still ruling her actions.

Atharv taught her she always had a choice. Today she exercised her right to choose.

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Karaali

@Karaali

Rocker

Posted: 9 years ago

You articulate your thoughts and ideas beautifully.

In soaps, woman-power is not a radical notion. Each soap lead is fighting for what she believes is right and often goes against the family and society for that. Vividha is not unique in that aspect.

Only way she has been unique is that she has not fallen for her husband, which most leads do, even if the husband is the worst possible person. Not only they fall for him, they also get the responsibility of reforming him.

Talking about feminism - The post is about woman's equality and yet it puts the guy on a pedestal.

- Why is a man needed to empower a woman? Gopi Bahu and Simar are much better examples of empowerment. Gopi's empowerment came from her mother-in-law and her education. Simar empowerment came from her own internal belief structure to do the right thing. Forget what these two shows are today. You should see the first 6-7 months of their initial time period. Vividha not only needed Atharv to stand up to her father, she continues to need him to sustain her. Is that empowerment or dependence?

- why is his love greater than hers? why are you comparing their love against each other? If they are equal, shouldn't their love be equal?

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933191

Hibernated

Posted: 9 years ago

@Karaali I speak for myself when I say that I don't think Atharv's love is greater than Vividha's! I have always maintained that nobody can love Atharv like Vividha and nobody can love Vividha like Atharv.

And also Atharv did not change Vividha he simply made her realise her strength and introduced her to a new thinking! She wanted to bow down and touch his feet but he held her up and told her that neither was superior or inferior between them and went on to kiss her feet to show what she and her love meant to him. If you notice this in the episode Vividha was surprised by all this because it was new to her and completely different from the rules that she was brought up with!

It is true that Vividha's empowerment could have been brought about by herself or anyone else around her but this Atharv & Vividha's story and the promos have always hinted at empowerment through love.

And the two shows that you have mentioned deal with a different setting & theme (my knowledge about them is limited actually) but I hope I am right in assuming that they are primarily a show that deals with saas or in-laws etc where as JNDSD is primarily a love story one whose tag line has been "Embrace the love that empowers you to fight all obstacles".

And to be honest there have been moments where Vividha has been shown to provide perspective to Atharv like the time when he stops his mom from keeping a fast for his mother Vividha has stood up for Sujatha against Atharv.

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totalmess

@totalmess

Dazzler

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: FortunaMajor
Beautiful post Alishah I have nothing to add! Vividha is exercising her choice and she even questioned everyone around her why they were having a problem with the choice that she was making for herself? The irony in this situation was that the man who taught her the importance of choice was the one trying to taking it away from her!
I also loved what she told in the precap, that she would do Atharv's share of phere's as well! After all theirs was relationship between two equals where neither was superior or inferior! Again this is another irony in this situation because of how contradictory Atharv is being at the moment. They took the same Vachans but they are interpreting it in different ways!

🤗

That has become one of my favourite dialogues from the show. It was so refreshing to hear somebody ask the most obvious question about their own life. Certainly, the irony of that is perhaps what the show is about now.

Vivi now embodies belief and pride. She is everything that she wants to be. And that is what I find most beautiful of all, it what she wants.

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totalmess

@totalmess

Dazzler

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: whispa
You write so well Alishah! Beautiful post.

I think when I started watching this show and was told in the promos that it was about women empowerment, I was a little sceptical because having seen so many hindi shows, you kind of know what to expect.

However, this show has amazed me! Especially phase one. I loved the way how Vividha was slowly changed by Atharv's thinking and then his love. For Vividha, her father and family were everything so for her to go against their teachings and follow her own heart and mind was a big deal.

Again, when she got forcibly married to a nice guy, you always had that fear that the show will go the typical route of her falling for her husband but thankfully they didn't. Atharv's love still empowered her to the point that she would rather live as a widow then anyone else's wife.

And today again, she went against society and chose to do something she wanted despite evryone telling her she was wrong. She proved that Atharv's ideals and thoughts were still ruling her actions.

Atharv taught her she always had a choice. Today she exercised her right to choose.

How nice of you to say whispa. 🤗

It is the show that gives us all of this to work with, we just write it down!

I am the same. I am pretty sure I actually saw the promos and then an article stating that she will marry someone else and then left it because I knew what was coming. Or so I thought!

It was so clear right from day one that Vivi was buried underneath Papa's dialogues and samajh's expectations. She escaped and the fact that she is now still like this even when Atharv is perhaps behaving against his own advice in some ways, is true empowerment.

That is what it all come down to. She chose, of her own accord.

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totalmess

@totalmess

Dazzler

Posted: 9 years ago

Originally posted by: Karaali
You articulate your thoughts and ideas beautifully.
In soaps, woman-power is not a radical notion. Each soap lead is fighting for what she believes is right and often goes against the family and society for that. Vividha is not unique in that aspect.

Only way she has been unique is that she has not fallen for her husband, which most leads do, even if the husband is the worst possible person. Not only they fall for him, they also get the responsibility of reforming him.

Talking about feminism - The post is about woman's equality and yet it puts the guy on a pedestal.
- Why is a man needed to empower a woman? Gopi Bahu and Simar are much better examples of empowerment. Gopi's empowerment came from her mother-in-law and her education. Simar empowerment came from her own internal belief structure to do the right thing. Forget what these two shows are today. You should see the first 6-7 months of their initial time period. Vividha not only needed Atharv to stand up to her father, she continues to need him to sustain her. Is that empowerment or dependence?
- why is his love greater than hers? why are you comparing their love against each other? If they are equal, shouldn't their love be equal?

Firstly I would like to say Thank You for that compliment and for taking time out of your day to read and comment. I appreciate all sorts of ideas on my posts!

My title was not referring to the fact that female empowerment is rare in Hindi TV but was actually a little homage to the popular definition of feminism as "the radical notion that women are people."

My post does not put anybody on a pedestal as I believe that doing so to anybody is a fatal flaw, either man or woman. You are absolutely right to question the idea that a man is needed to empower a woman. That would go against basic feminist principles of equality and choice. It is however also necessary to consider that in societies like India which do struggle more with issues like the one raised in the show, it is more often women that do need empowering. Men are not taught from childhood that they are inferior, which in turn means that they usually do not grow up to be what society wants to make them. They don't have to worry about choice as much as women because they have lot more of it than their female counterparts. It is far easier for them to be their true selves without any encouragement.

It could be anything that empowers somebody, from a passing comment you hear in the street to friends or as in JNDSD, the person that you love. It just so happens to be that in this show, the device used to empower Vividha just happens to be her boyfriend. This by no means that only a man can empower a woman. That would be a regressive and ignorant stance to take. I also don't think at all that she needs Atharv to sustain her. In fact, I think today's episode proved just how much she doesn't need anyone. At all. It is all about her own choices, which she now has the power and initiative to take. If we explain Vividha's life in terms of a painting, then you could say that Atharv is the inspiration but the brush doing the painting is firmly in her hand.

From what I have seen of those shows, which admittedly is not that much, feminism and equality is not what I would associate them with. I do however accept that shows can change which is why I will refrain from commenting on a something that I have never really watched.

I'm not really sure where I compared their love. I do believe that their love is equal! We have seen that on this show innumerable times. She also taught him much and loves him greatly but I didn't really mention that because for me, today was Vividha's day. And this was a post about her.

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ARCHRE

@ARCHRE

Dazzler

Posted: 9 years ago

Hi...Alishah...

My day started with a small chat with you this morning and is probably ending on this post tonight 😊

The word ' Feminism ' today does not move alone... it brings with it heaps of inequality issues ... the word weaker sex ... and a lot more we call gender bias.

According to me a lot of issues will just get sorted when people look at people as ' HUMANs' ... not men or women ...Th moment the word gender comes along a lot of issues get sidelined and the difference in gender takes a forefront ... Its then U ( male ) V/s ME ( female )

We live in a society which has already set parameters like Atharv had once said ... As a man you are allowed to do this and these are your responsibilities . As women you are again allowed to do this and these are your responsibilities ...

Unlearning anything is the most difficult task at hand and this is one thing Desi TV refuses to unlearn and so do a generic no of viewers ...A lot of women go thru their struggles on a day to day basis in real life and again sit and watch the same thing on TV in the evenings ... Does it really bring solace or does it reinforce the fact in their minds ... that this is the only life women can have? ... Desi entertainment thrives on this concept of throwing women again and again into the same clutches of societal thinking , keeping them bound and finally making them and everybody around them believe that this is life . SAD

Like i said we have a long way to go before we are all accepted as humans first and then considered that we belong to a particular gender. A life with no right to exercise a choice is a life not lived ... is a life lived dying everyday .

Coming to the show , Vividha has exercised her complete free will and choice in the last few days ... I see nothin wrong in Atharv giving her that thought process to start with ...In everyone's journey in life , you come accross some people who become catalysts in helping you find yourself and if that done by a friend or a partner how is that wrong in any way ... It looks wrong again just because we associate gender to it ... Not the quality of another human doing it for you ...

And finally no one can change you , one can only help you find yourself if you have lost your soulalong the way . The day we rise above this whole fight for gender equality and look at equal human treatment we would have crossed a few miles in our journey towards Progress...

And like you rightly said this show has subtly addressed issues that one deals with day in and day out wrt men and women and has tried in some small ways has questioned norms set by society 😊

Ps : I love Vividhas Kickass attitude by the way ... Makes me so so happy

I love ur thoughts and beautiful choice of words to express ... Subtle , focused and Impactful

Edited by ARCHRE - 9 years ago